TJ – Why do you waste your time talking on this forum? Surely there is a greater purpose for you than telling us idiots how it should be / is!

This would free up massive police resources to concentrate on other crimes.

Not too mention reducing the prison population.

Now you wonder why they are being protected…lynch mob on this thread…

No wonder Australia are getting miffed with us sending nutters over there.

Kimbers,

His killers although 10 years old knew they were perpetrating the most heinous of acts.

They are never going to be an asset to society. No matter how much tree-hugging you do. Get rid.

I'm not advocating we execute all 10 year olds who commit crimes, but those two (and the boys from Eglington) are a special breed and serve no purpose here in society. The families who created the problem are equally at fault. They should serve indefinate hard labour for their efforts too.

I'm being kind here too; hanging is too good for those aberrations. They certainly didn't cry when Jamie protested about his fate. And yes, I'd look into their eyes. In fact I'd pull the bloody handle.

Kimbers, you might think I'm fcut up but I've got through 36 years without torturing any man or beast.

I like to cycle. Anyone else here like to cycle? 😐

Pete

I've cycled today. Time to hang kids instead 😕

Edit:

please note I have tongue FIRMLY in cheek if any tree-hugger decides to get upset!!

TJ?

If crime has massively gone down.
Why is it the government(Scottish) is proposing to quash jail sentences of six months or less to ease the burden on overflowing jails.
Oh, and in an age when sentencing is less severe than it used to be.
Why is it that childrens homes/social work departments are bulging full?
Also what about the crime figures? do they include the amount of non reported crimes due to people disillusioned with the legal system?

You typify the majority of middle class persons on this forum.
Look in the mirror, point, and say to yourself(again)my contribution to this country is what makes it so great.

You sometimes hear stories from people who claim they know police that worked on the Jamie Bulger case, one such story is Jamie's parents apparently left him outside shops while they where inside shop lifting, once his mother had stashed goods on or about her person she would say oh my god wheres my son as an excuse to run out of the shop to her waiting son, makes this case all the more tragic if indeed that was the case.

I also know someone who houses young offenders when they come out of prison or young offenders institution some of these are very damaged individuals and display sociopathic behaviour and had a history of harming & killing their pets or other animals and often go on to much more heinous crimes, is it possible to rehabilitate such people, they can be very clever and fool whoever is trying to reform them.

What about the venomous scum wasting valuable hospital resources who spit, assault, vomit, abuse nurses & doctors in a+e units up and down the country?

Rehabilitate? Why can't we just FUC*ING EDUCATE?
Oh that does'nt always work so rehab it is.(is re-hab not a learning curve anyways?)
Certain people will do atrocious things because they want to, it's stopping it a second time that's the problem.

"is it possible to rehabilitate such people, they can be very clever and fool whoever is trying to reform them."
Yes and no. I currently work on a personality disorder ward within a forensic setting, and of course there's an element of patients attempting to manipulate staff in order to meet their own needs – that's just part and parcel of certain types of personality disorder. However, I maintain that people aren't born with personality disorders, it's life experience and circumstances that create these complex and maladaptive behaviours. If you take that as a given, then you also have to accept the possibility that given the correct levels of care, people can and do change.

Who would like to live in a society which is allowed to hang ten year olds?

Anyone?

As much as I despair for the justice system today, I certainly don't think that capital punishment for children is the way forward.

PJM1974 – Member

Who would like to live in a society which is allowed to hang ten year olds?

Anyone?

FFS! Hanging? Nooooo …. feed them to those poor starving hungry salt crocodiles instead then look at the crocs perform death rolls on them.

Yes, I would but then I guess such society existed long time ago.

😈

Hanging a ten yr old… No – I'd humanely gas them, less distressing, but then again if I had my way I'd sever merseyside and float it out into the sea

Bloody hell and your from Macclesfied! 😆

I can't believe there are people on this thread who have killed ants.

Bastards!

That's right surfer, right at the foot of the hills 😉 sheep to shag and trails to ride – and not a thieving scouser in site lol

I'll be over that way tomorrow.

*Wonders how much ££££ I can make from this*
Selling the wearabouts to those who want to kill him
Selling the wearabouts to those who want to protct him
Going to the papers and telling all

Cant be arsed with any of them, dont need the money,

I'm not getting drawn into this debate! However I will say that at the time "The Jigsaw Man" by David Britton was released it was a very interesting read, however he has been seriously discredited since writing it and personally I think it's a load of twonk. But can make interesting reading if you have a VERY open mind!!!

Secondly, someone mentioned earlier what "crime" or reason JV has been recalled for, until MOJ announce it, it is just rumour and speculation, let's face it we all know how much pap the press print that is BS. I believe that he has committed an offence (who knows what) that means he is going to have to stand trial (ie he's going NG). As such they will not release the details as he would not then get a fair trial and he could look at appealing under ECHR (not saying I agree or disagree with the way they've handled it).

Back to spectating on this thread, some interesting views.

I'll be over that way tomorrow.

I'll be sure to lock up properly then 😉 can't actually ride this weekend at all, wifes away so I'm playing single parent!! Gutted

If you believe all the speculation in the papers (nb. "not yet proven fact") then the rehabilitation system has clearly failed this time – dodging vetting to become a nightclub doorman, regular trips fir nights out in Liverpool, drug habit – what a waste of my hard earned. Guess there's no changin some people – hopefully karma will address the scales of justice. Can't say i cried when baby p killer was scolded in the clink…

steffybhoy – Member

TJ?

If crime has massively gone down.
Why is it the government(Scottish) is proposing to quash jail sentences of six months or less to ease the burden on overflowing jails.

Because 1) we lock up people for longer for less than we used to and 2) short jail sentances are fairly pointless

Oh, and in an age when sentencing is less severe than it used to be.
Why is it that childrens homes/social work departments are bulging full?

Because actually sentencing is far more severe than it used to be and there are significant social issues including a greater weillingness to take children into care following on from the baby P scandal

Also what about the crime figures? do they include the amount of non reported crimes due to people disillusioned with the legal system?

Yes they do as the figures are assembled from real peoples experience of real crime – not of reported crime, not of police stats but real peoples experience of real crime
http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/bcs1.html

What you have been fooled by is the newspapers drumming up a moral panic about crime. The actual reality is very very different. Crime is massively down as you will see if you follow the BCS link

What you have been fooled by is the newspapers drumming up a moral panic about crime.

Yes well I fully expected drivel like that from the likes of you.

As I said look in the mirror, point and remind yourself of the valuable contribution you give to this country.
Me? I'll keep living in the real world.

"His killers although 10 years old knew they were perpetrating the most heinous of acts."

Mikertroid – How do you know that? Any evidence to support?

steffybhoy

the point is in the real world crime is massively down since the 90s – no possible doubt about it. Even murder is down hugely – and that cannot be fudged. I do live in the real world. This is an absolute fact with no possible doubt.

As I said look in the mirror, point and remind yourself of the valuable contribution you give to this country.

I have spent 30 yrs looking after the old, the sick and the frail. I have given more to our society than many. I have not directly increased its wealth – but I have increased its wellbeing.

Munqe-chick – I completely agree with you about Paul Britton, he made a lot of money from the Jigsaw man (some might say he cashed in on a lot of cases he had worked on), and the follow up (I have it but cant remember the title, and cant be arsed looking for it) was even worse – it contained some rather dodgy views on a rape case, where he appeared to be saying that the victim was partially responsible due to the way she was dressed.

The news is now reporting that James Bulger's mother is demanding her "right" to know why Jon Venables has been taken taken into custody.

I'm sorry, but I don't follow the logic at all.

Her son was tragically murdered 17 years ago.

The perpetrators were caught and prosecuted by the state -not the victim's family. They were sentenced, served time and were released on licence. Breaking the terms of the licence resulted in further custody.

As the mother of the victim of the initial offence, what possible reason is there for her being told what Venables has done this time? It has nothing to do with her this time.

It must have been awful to lose a child in those circumstances, but I fail to see what this latest incident has to do with that.

I bet Jack Straw's heart sank when this case (originally not on his watch)reared its head again.

steffybhoy wrote, "Yes well I fully expected drivel like that from the likes of you."

Yet you don't seem to be able to actually refute any of his drivel? You said, "Oh, and in an age when sentencing is less severe than it used to be.", he correctly pointed out this is nonsense. It'll take you about 10 seconds to google for the facts on average jail sentences.

He might be wrong to say you've been led to your false impression by the press, it might be a kneejerk of your own personal devising or you might have been misled from other sources (politicians who would rather stand up and say "We'll increase punishment" than "Crime FELL!") but either way, he is correct on the facts and you owe him an apology.

Whenever you're ready.

First page of google!

Scotland has one of the highest murder rates in Europe

Scotland has highest rate of cocaine use in the world, claims United Nations study

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Topics/Statistics/Browse/Crime-Justice/TrendPris

Apology? go poke yersel.

What exactly do you think that graph shows? We know prison population is up. Prison population /= crime

The Scottish murder rate of 2.1 per 100000 quoted in 05-06 is lower than it was in 1992, 1993 and 1994, and just barely over the 10-year average from 84 to 94. it's classic bad stat use, the 2004-2005 rate of 1.59 was lower than at almost any point in that same period, it's not quite a peak low but it was very low indeed, a very good year. The "increase" in 2005-2006 was barely more than a return to the norm.

Try this one for size

http://www.justice.gov.uk/publications/docs/story-prison-population.pdf

"Increase in immediate custodial sentenced population
The growth in numbers in prison having been sentenced to immediate custody has been the single most important contributor to the overall growth, representing 78% of the total increase between 1995 and 2009. There were two main reasons behind the growth in this segment of the prison population: (a) the courts sentenced more offenders to prison each year between 1995 and 2002; and (b) offenders have been staying in prison for longer."

(a) Increase in numbers sentenced to immediate custody
From 1995 to 2002, increasing numbers of adult4 offenders were sentenced to immediate custody for indictable offences5, with the annual volume rising by around 23,000 by 2002. <snip> The increase in the immediate custody rate is part of a wider trend of tougher sentencing outcomes.

From 2000 to 2008, the average time served in prison increased by 14% (from 8.1 to 9.3 months) for those released from determinate sentences. This was due to a 15% increase in the average custodial determinate sentence length handed down by the courts between 2000 and 2004"

Steffiboy – what is that supposed to prove?

Go read the research. Crime is significantly down – this is an indisputable fact.

Sentences for the same crime have increased. indisputable fact.

Murder rate is the lowest for decades Indisputable fact.

I am afraid you are simply taking high grade bollx

Go read the BCS survey

LOL! Increase in UK population->recession->crime rate down = Wooohoo! We live in paradise! Yes, because the statistic says so and politicians are angels. We need to worship celebrities.

The mother has all the logic and right to know the identity of both killers. That right is hers and her alone. The memory of her child is hers and she is the only one that can forgive the murderers. Unless you want to " medically erase" her mind to make her forget?

The law is only artificially there to govern the rights or wrongs but it does not govern one's thought. Until such time as she can forgive them the logic is her.

What is illogical is that some want to impose their "logic" on her. LOL! How twisted! Yes, we are the same and let us impose our thoughts on others. Fe*k me. Now listen to my logic and let me tell you how you should think. The salt crocs are hungry …

😈

Chewk – crime falls with increasing prosperity so I would expect the next set of stats to show a rise crimes rises in recessions- and the drop is far greater than any rise in population – 40% down from the peak in the early 90s.

Why does the mother have any right to know the new identity of the killers? Do you really think all this press fuss is helping her?

The mother has all the logic and right to know the identity of both killers. That right is hers and her alone. The memory of her child is hers and she is the only one that can forgive the murderers. Unless you want to " medically erase" her mind to make her forget?

What?!?

In the UK the state 'punishes' criminals. It is not carried out by the families of victims. If one of the men (presumably the other one has not done similar) who has been released on licence(rightly or wrongly) has committed a recent offence it is very unlikely to have affected the mother of their earlier victim. What does it have to do with her -or any of us? I can only assume that the parole board are doing their job correctly.

Rockitman, unless they had zero IQ, the acts they dealt that poor child were deliberate, heinous and callous.

My 5 year old son would know that inserting batteries into a 2 year olds eyes was wrong; I'm pretty sure those 10 year olds did too.

The Jigsaw man by Paul Britton, whilst providing some useful insights, should not be taken as proof. He often used unlawful methods to extract confessions out of suspects. Look at the mess he made of the Rachel Nickell case.

JV's recent case (if there is one to answer) has nothing to do with his previous crimes and should be dealt with on its own merits. However painful this is for Denise Bulger/Fergus she should not get involved and leave the legal and judicial process to take its course.

Each time I hear something about this case I feel upset. It plays on my mind and I get unwanted images of a terrified child. Do you think the 2 who are guilty of it go through the same? My guess is no – that's why IMO there's no place for them in this life.

Mikertroid wrote, "My 5 year old son would know that inserting batteries into a 2 year olds eyes was wrong; I'm pretty sure those 10 year olds did too."

They didn't do that.

Northwind. You're wrong.

Geronimo – Member

What?!?

In the UK the state 'punishes' criminals. It is not carried out by the families of victims. If one of the men (presumably the other one has not done similar) who has been released on licence(rightly or wrongly) has committed a recent offence it is very unlikely to have affected the mother of their earlier victim. What does it have to do with her -or any of us? I can only assume that the parole board are doing their job correctly.

Yes, the state can impose whatever punishment it sees fit according to the "civilised" law. But are you saying that the state has the right to take away the memory of those murderers from her? Not even "god" nor any "supreme beings" have that right let alone the puny "civilised" state.

… has committed a recent offence it is very unlikely to have affected the mother of their earlier victim.

Now are you saying she should feel your logic? If that is the case are you saying you have higher logic than hers? How much higher a logic do you have?

What does it have to do with her -or any of us? I can only assume that the parole board are doing their job correctly.

It has nothing to do with you nor your feeling. Your assumption on the action of the parole board is irrelevant to her call(anger etc) to identify the murderers.

😈