James Bulgers killers. Some questions.

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  • James Bulgers killers. Some questions.
  • BillyWhizz
    Member

    I thought these two monsters were being shipped off to Australia with new identities? Now it seems at least one of them is still here and working amongst us. Now, due to some sort of "breach of terms of release" he's back inside.

    My question is, if he was given a new identity etc etc, who (and how) did anyone know to keep an eye on him and what sort of things constituted a breach. Did his employer know who he really was for instance? And if so – what sort of person agrees to give someone like that a job? Do large amounts of tax payers cash, in the form of "employer incentives" change hands in these situations?

    I see on the news they still report that the killers battered James to death, neglecting to mention that they tortured him first.

    tails
    Member

    I dare say very few people (excluding the media) know who they are. His employer almost defiantly would not know as you'd never take the risk of employing him.

    Junkyard
    Member

    if he was given a new identity etc etc, who (and how) did anyone know to keep an eye on him

    Well he was released under licence with the new identity to a place of residency chosen by the state. we – the state Parole offices I assume took him there and he would be required to liase – daily initially with him. He was probably tagged or otherwise monitored but he is not going to run is he as I expect he is sh1t scared of being discovered. I doubt anyone other than the parole officer is aware of the true identity of him. I doubt the employer is informed and I am sure the parole office did the risk assesments re location, work etc. I doubt the prison authorities have been informed either as to who he is either.

    Geronimo
    Member

    You would assume that someone monitors a bloke who is out on parole. He must have a probation/parole officer.

    The intelligence services presumably know who he is.

    I assume that his family shouldn't know where he is.

    I expect that he doesn't have a pleasant existence (extreme fear of discovery?)and that may, or may not be, a good thing.

    jon1973
    Member

    I see on the news they still report that the killers battered James to death, neglecting to mention that they tortured him first.

    A long shot, but that maybe because the media are being sensitive to Jamie's family. Can't be easy to see this all over the news again without the constant reminder (no that they need reminding) that he was tortured as well. Maybe I'm being naive.

    Premier Icon kimbers
    Subscriber

    why are people so obsessed with this case and these killers?

    how many civilians children babies etc have been killed in afgahnistan, iraq etc by british and coalition forces

    yet this one death seems to preoccupy so many people

    Kit
    Member

    I can see this thread being a long-runner, or getting closed. Either way, anyone fancy a biccie?

    Premier Icon ddmonkey
    Subscriber

    I am fascinated by the psychological assessment here, how does an individual so damaged as a child that they can torture and kill ever prove they are safe to be released into the community? Or did these two boys through the accident of their upbringing not know any better (hard to believe they didn't know what they were doing was wrong, just like the recent tortue case involving children)? Either way to think that a child should spend his whole life behind bars is horrendous but if that is the only way to ensure they do not re-offend then so be it. Whichever way you look at it the whole thing is tragic for all concerned.

    M6TTF
    Member

    why are people so obsessed with this case and these killers?

    how many civilians children babies etc have been killed in afgahnistan, iraq etc by british and coalition forces

    yet this one death seems to preoccupy so many people

    because it was so horrific and unbelievable at the time, and still is – it wasn't adults who did it, but 10 year old children. – I still get a knot in my stomach and feel sick when i think about what they did and the fear that little boy went through before they left him for dead

    I'm a forgiving person, but not in this case I'm afraid

    Gary_M
    Member

    kimbers are you just being an idiot or can you really not see the difference between two 10 years olds torturing and murdering a 2 year old and children being killed in a war zone. Both tragic but obvioulsy totally different.

    jon1973
    Member

    why are people so obsessed with this case and these killers?

    Are they? they're in the news again so people are bound to talk.

    how many civilians children babies etc have been killed in afgahnistan, iraq etc by british and coalition forces

    I don't know, how many?

    Two wrongs don't make a right. Just becasue one bad thing happens, doesn't mean that you cannot concern yourself with something else. They're no mutually exclusive.

    roper
    Member

    Some of you might find this interesting (if you've not already seen it).

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/people/highlights/001109_child.shtml

    Philby
    Member

    Some interesting 'facts' about Venables since he was released in 2001 – seems he's been a bit of a naughty boy – http://www.mirror.co.uk/2010/03/04/james-bulger-s-killer-jon-venables-transformed-into-cokehead-with-raging-temper-after-jail-release-115875-22083895/

    Gary_M
    Member

    It’s going to be very difficult for them because, rightly or wrongly, they are going to be released having been deprived of all normal things that children in their formative years experience – dating, going to football matches and pop concerts. I describe them as battery hens and I think that when they come out and have to face normal things in life, I don’t think that they are going to find it easy to cope…

    At least the have the option of 'facing the normal things in life', unfortunately the 2 year old child they murdered does not.

    backhander
    Member

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/7364719/James-Bulger-killer-returned-to-jail-due-to-drug-use-and-violence.html

    Only did 9 years and it would seem have been having a great time at clubs and festivals since.
    I can't say I'm sorry to see him locked up.

    jon1973
    Member

    Some interesting 'facts' about Venables since he was released in 2001 – seems he's been a bit of a naughty boy

    Given that noone outside a select few people know who he is, I wouldn't be suprised to discover that that Mirror article is a load of old bollocks.

    Premier Icon kimbers
    Subscriber

    ok let me rephrase that

    50 children a year are killed in this country
    most of the time by their parents,i dont know details but im sure the deaths can be equally horrific, why no hysteria when they are paroled ?

    and gary m so its not worth worrying about tragic deaths lets say 1000 children in iraq but you are more upset by 1 death in the uk at the hands of children, i want to know why?

    ill probably get into trouble for posting this but its quite possible your tax money payed for the bomb that did this….
    Click for disturbing war image – {Mod}
    infact it was done in your name to secure petrol for your car

    backhander
    Member

    Ah kimbers. So a slap on the wrist and let them carry on?
    Naughty torturers but boys will be boys eh?
    And where has gary m say he approves of iraqi deaths? WTF is your problem?If you're not happy with the wars, use your vote to tell the labour party as much. I'm going to.

    Gary_M
    Member

    and gary m so its not worth worrying about tragic deaths Where did I say that. I can't believe that you don't understand why people would be shocked at two 10 year olds murdering another child. You don't seem to grasp the fact that it's not only the murder of the child that is so shocking but that's it's the age of the murderers.

    You seem to be under the impression that you can only feel compassion for one event at a time. You're coming across as a bit of an idiot.

    mudshark
    Member

    50 children a year are killed in this country most of the time by their parents,i dont know details but im sure the deaths can be equally horrific, why no hysteria when they are paroled ?

    But do they get longer than the Bulger killers did?

    Anyway, they were 10 and I can't judge them as never knew them or how they are now. Many journos do know about them though and are able to find out what they're up to.

    alpin
    Member

    i think the biggest mistake the authorities made was letting it be known that the guy has been recalled.

    much better to do their job without causing this mass-hysteria. we would have been none-the-wiser. many of you don't give the Bulger case a second thought on a day-to-day basis.

    are any of us better off for knowing now what we didn't know last week?

    Kimbers, well said.

    alpin
    Member

    backhander – Member

    Ah kimbers. So a slap on the wrist and let them carry on?
    Naughty torturers but boys will be boys eh?
    And where has gary m say he approves of iraqi deaths? WTF is your problem?If you're not happy with the wars, use your vote to tell the labour party as much. I'm going to.

    he probably did. and besides, it's all a bit late now, isn't it?

    Premier Icon kimbers
    Subscriber

    my problem is the hysteria around this case, whipped up by the media and spilling over on here – virtual frothing at the mouth and forum lynchmobs make me feel uneasy i guess

    i agree with the tone of ropers article

    (and i do not believe a slap on the wrist is enough in this case)

    how many civilians children babies etc have been killed in afgahnistan, iraq etc by british and coalition forces

    yet this one death seems to preoccupy so many people

    I'm sure coalition forces go round looking for babies to kill everyday. Any idea how many civilians have been treated by coalition forces for non war related issues?

    bigyinn
    Member

    Thats pretty awful kimbers, but the point is made.

    leggyblonde
    Member

    esselgruntfuttock, ever heard of propaganda?

    I'm not saying that the soldier is evil btw, but that pic screams invasion justification.

    bristolbiker
    Member

    I tend to agree with what M6TTF said….

    backhander
    Member

    IMHO, its because the thought of purposely torturing a baby is so abhorrent to us and absolute intent to cause maximum suffering before death to an infant so defenseless is very disturbing.
    I'm not saying that the killing of children in iraqistan is justifiable but that (even when negligent) it is never done with the malice and intent shown by these little….boys (been told off for evading swear filter recently).

    andybach
    Member

    I am guessing that anyone in their mid 20's with a Liverpool accent – who has just arrived in the local prison – should be feeling fairly nervous at the moment.

    HitchinBoro
    Member

    "I am guessing that anyone in their mid 20's with a Liverpool accent – who has just arrived in the local prison – should be feeling fairly nervous at the moment."

    So half of Merseyside then……

    What I find quite interesting is that as Venables was considered the less evil and easily led (according to the experts) could, after being given years of expert counseling and poncy rehabilitation turn out to be a drug abuser with an extremely violent temper (allegedly) So much for therapy!

    TandemJeremy
    Member

    At least a million children dead in Iraq and afghanistan since Gulf war one as a direct result. American soldiers have been prosecuted for the rape and murder of a child

    Not that that is at all relevant.

    Venables and Thompson were two badly damaged children themselves. Their trial was a farce. Their treatment outrageous and is a stain on the charectar of this country.

    NO other civilised country treats children like this that they have to live in fear of a lynch mob the rest of their lives and treats damaged children as criminals. compare the Silje Redergard case for example.

    To answer the OP

    My question is, if he was given a new identity etc etc, who (and how) did anyone know to keep an eye on him and what sort of things constituted a breach.

    Probation service were keeping a very close eye on him and as discussed on a previous thread on this the breach could be anything from a pattern of behaviour to petty crime to serious crime to a single incident of breaching conditions. We simply don't know.

    Did his employer know who he really was for instance?

    No they didn't.

    Do large amounts of tax payers cash, in the form of "employer incentives" change hands in these situations?

    No

    The bottom line is that our countries obsession with criminalising and demonising children led to these boys names being released and thus to the situation where they have to be protected from the lynch mobs by the use of false identities.

    Everyone deserves a chance of rehabilittation and redemption
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2010/mar/03/erwin-james-jon-venables

    IanMunro
    Member

    IMHO, its because the thought of purposely torturing a baby is so abhorrent to us and absolute intent to cause maximum suffering before death to an infant so defenseless is very disturbing

    True. What seems odd is that we seem to find it so much more abhorrent when done by a child, who will normally have a less developed sense of right and wrong, than when done by an adult.

    JamesP
    Member

    Good reporting from the mirror…what on earth does this mean?

    "Our source said that in one incident outside a night club he got into a row with the boyfriend of a reveller’s ­girlfriend."

    Premier Icon kimbers
    Subscriber

    The bottom line is that our countries obsession with criminalising and demonising children led to these boys names being released and thus to the situation where they have to be protected from the lynch mobs by the use of false identities.

    and thus even more money has to be spent on providing for their new lives, which in turn makes the lynch mob even angrier……..

    its all gone very brass eye

    carbon337
    Member

    Surely – his colleagues are going to put two and two together and start coming out of the woodwork with pics etc especially with facilities like facebook etc to spread the word.

    If someone I worked with was mid 20's scouse and lived in the North of England and all of a sudden didnt work with me anymore id be suspicious.

    I thought Thompson was the one who was the quieter of the two and has gone on to show remorse including settling into a relationship with his male partner.

    backhander
    Member

    Dreadful journalism by the guardian as usual.

    most of the time by their parents

    There's your answer, the average parent (and TVnews watcher, newspaper buyer, internet browser) knows theyr not a killer, or if they are, in such a small diplorable minority that the mass media doesnt cater for them.

    As a result "parents killed kid" isn't as newsworthy as "stranger kills kid".

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