most new diesels are more effieicent and cleaner than their petrol counterparts.

How are they cleaner?

*Looks for lease deal on diesel jag*

Did the EU not give them a 125 million Euro grant to move to a plant in Slovakia?

http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-18-6023_en.htm

Edit

No they approved the state aid from the Slovakian Government.

Did the EU not give them a 125 million Euro grant to move to a planet in Slovakia?

Yup just one of the advantages of being in the EU you get funding to attract companies.

High street? Pay for parking in tiny spaces where you’re lucky not to scratch your car. Get haranged by charity muggers and beggars. Mix with the general public who quite often smell bad. 🤭 lol. Nahhhhh! Bubye high Street. However we do need to properly tax Amazon.

The word on the street is that JLR will shut Castle Bromwich, and move the lines East in the not too distant future. Very grim if that become fact.

There’s huge global over-capacity in the car market – the western market is only sustained by cheap finance selling PCPs, forcing people to replace every three years is artificially sustaining the used car market. Manufacturers make more money selling finance than selling cars. The whole car ownership model is probably a busted flush, particularly when we consider the increased costs of electric and hybrid when it’s just an expensive depreciating asset. In cities, shared use models where you simply call-up a vehicle when you need it makes far more sense, but the problems is our western economies are built on consumption.

Interesting post this, mainly because it links into my job nicely. Albeit it’s not all correct. First off car manufacturers don’t make more money from finance than they do car sales. The dealers selling them, maybe (for new) but many of the manufacturers outsource their funding to major finance houses/banks. Sure there will be some kind of kick back, but there is plenty of profit in the vehicle transaction way from funding. Different story for a dealer as I say. The change from
Ownership to usership is a big talking point in the industry at the moment. Millenials and younger generations are looking to move away from PcP or consumer finance agreements to PCH where they only have to consider the monthly cost of a car. Think of it as your mobile phone contract. The market wants monthly fixed cost over a term with upgrade at the end. This changes the used vehicle dynamics significantly and I think you will see more secondary and third life leasing develop in coming years. This becomes massively profitable for the leasing companies ans they can really sweat the asset prior to disposal. We are also seeing some marked increases in short term hire arrrangements especially in urban areas such as London. It’s certainly a fascinating time seeing it unravel and develop.

In terms of New car suppliers it’s also important to not forget the pressure they were all put under with the WLTP changes which caused huge supply issues. This would have compounded sales declines further. Used car market as a result has been the most buoyant we have seen in years.

It’s interesting stuff, feel sorry for those that have their jobs at risk I really do.

Makes you wonder how many people at JLR voted for Brexit doesn’t it.

Makes you wonder how many people at JLR voted for Brexit doesn’t it.

Maybe, but like has been said this is less to do with brexit than many other deeper issues and stemmed long before brexit was even on the table. But never let that get in the way of a brexit moan for sure.

I lost interest in owning a JLR group car when when price of the i-Pace was released. It might need to be that price as it’s expensive to make (and is in line with Tesla pricing) but it’s stupid money for what you actually get.

“Pay for parking in tiny spaces where you’re lucky not to scratch your car.”

Free parking at out of town shopping centres isn’t free…

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/235359727_The_High_Cost_of_Free_Parking

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_High_Cost_of_Free_Parking

To be fair, I think Brexit is pretty far down the road of problems for JLR – China consumer confidence has taken a big hit because, well they’re due a recession and Trumps trade war will hurt them that’s their biggest export market. US trade tarrifs will hurt their second biggest market and Europe is running away from diesel as quickly as they can and JLR make a lot of diesels.

The ‘no deal’ Brexit, which I believe The Commons has all but ruled out now, could sink them, but I don’t think anyone will dare think that’ll happen.

The word on the street is that JLR will shut Castle Bromwich, and move the lines East in the not too distant future. Very grim if that become fact.

Or ship out the existing tech of diesel to be made cheaper elsewhere and base the electric lines out of the UK.

Umm ive been told electric moter and battery development are staying Uk based.everything else is going i hope not. castle brom is prime housing land though.

I have a number of mates who work at JLR in a combination of R&D and middle management roles. I don’t think any of them would have voted for Brexit. They all seemed to be acutely aware of the vulnerability of too much dependence on China/ diesel/ also poor build quality etc. and I think the view for most of them was why add one more worry to the pot. The shop floor may be different I guess.

Also times move on young people dont want cars like my generation did they might need one but they dont see them as major status symbols like my generation.

Thats not the case for what i see. They just cant afford it. On has just bought a type r to deliver pizzas.

It wss obviously going to happen whe jlr started saying they’ll leave because brexit etc. As said earlier would have been years in the plan.

Another part of JLR’s problem is the LR’s range has too much overlap. A few years ago you had Defender, MK3/4 Discovery (and commercial variant), Feeelander, RRS and FFRR. Each one differently styled and serving a distinct sector.
Now we have Evoke, Velar, Mk5 Discovery, Discovery Sport, RRS and FFRR. They are all soft styled and too close to each.
New Defender has been pushed back a few more years leaving a big hole for the commercial/off road user that is being filled by Toyota’s commercial spec LC and at the other end by Suzuki New Jimny.
Coupled with landlocked manufacturing sites like Solihul, and massive untimely investment in diesel engine manufacturing and you can see how they have backed themselves into a corner.

Apparently online didn’t do much better than offline

Selling Betamax in a VHS world doesn’t help.

Imagine you are in the market for a new car. Would these attract or deter you?

1) Questionable build quality
2) Diesel dependence
3) Poor fuel economy
4) Confused range with lots of overlap
5) 2 brand with images slightly out of touch with the times

Brexit doesn’t help. China doesn’t help. But there is something more fundamentally wrong with their consumer offer and their commercial model that speaks to the lack of vision and poor macro management of the business over a number of years.

Sorry for anybody personally involved, but even in difficult times there are winners. The fact that JLR is a loser is down to the business itself, not external factors.

Probably every decade there is a shakeout of british industry, in the car market, ford stopped making transits here, chrysler pulled out, so did British Leyland by being bust and broke,Vauxhall have a small assembly plant in ellesmere port, just about hanging on and a van plant in luton, ford have a plant in liverpool, job loses due to be announced soon it seems for both.

Then we have Honda and Toyota saying staff will have a holiday end of march /april due to brexit problems, both here to get exports into the eu and having got huge grants to be here.

Then there are the shops, do we still need department stores, like debenhams, HOF, and marks and spencer, to pander to the older population.

The uk is changing, vehicles are cheaper to make abroad, look at furniture and electronics.

Three vehicle suppliers seem to be doing well though, rolls royce and bentley, along with the new train assembley plants being currently built in the uk.

Yup just one of the advantages of being in the EU you get funding to attract companies

Nissan ( I work in the Sunderland plant) have been using what they call “low cost countries” ie: Eastern Europe, as a threat in any pay negotiations for at least 15 years

Thankfully those EU loans and grants have kept it in Sunderland, luckily Sunderland voted massively to remain….. Oh!

JLR are not the only manufacturer to be feeling the pinch at the moment. Ford have announced redundancies today citing the same non-brexit issues, so have Vauxhall and others will follow I’m sure. Porsche had a complete production shut down a couple of months ago due to falling demand.

The motor industry as been on a massive boom for decades now, so a downturn was inevitable at some point, and the combination of the China crisis and diesel-gate is what’s driving it…it’ll pick up again, and at the end of the day JLR have only announced a drop in profits…they still made £1.5bn post drop in demand. So the current measures are what any sensible business would do in similar situations to protect its future.

I’m sorry for those being made redundant…but I’m sure the vast majority will go voluntarily with a redundancy deal or via early retirement….I’m always amazed at the company I work for, the number of people willing to go and just waiting for an opportunity to go and do other stuff. We always get almost all of our head count reductions through voluntary severance or early retirement and they all go with a smile on their face and a spring in their step. And more often than not we see the same faces back again a few years down the line when the industry picks up again and the company is recruiting like mad.

The more concerning thing is that the downturn in car demand in China is the first sign that things are not all well in China which has been dragging the world economy along for a while now. If things take a turn in China then the whole world will feel the affects.

Thankfully those EU loans and grants have kept it in Sunderland, luckily Sunderland voted massively to remain….. Oh!

Yup, **** them.

An school friend of mine just joined the Cumbria police, just heard that they are having to resort to charity donation or council tax increases to keep their new intake because of unseen pensions expenses.

I’m sure her leave vote will pay off just fine for her, with a tanking pound increasing their costs across the board for things like equipment and pensions and potentially reduced funding due to a drop in national tax income.

She thought Jezzer would come to the rescue and boost public spending and that we didn’t need the EU. HAHAHAHAHAHAH. Karma dickheads.

The more concerning thing is that the downturn in car demand in China is the first sign that things are not all well in China which has been dragging the world economy along for a while now. If things take a turn in China then the whole world will feel the affects.

China is an interesting factor definatley has a part to play, but i find it strange that companies didn’t think china would go “pro China products” in the event of any foreign question, also see apple.

It’s like the suppliers to JLR who have no diversity in there customers, i dont think we live in a time you can be so dependent on one income stream.

Been trying to understand china a bit more but non bias information is hard to find so satire it is (the writer is from china apprently)

china uncensored

Is the laying off of staff and moving production elsewhere a reason to stop buying jags then

Is the laying off of staff and moving production elsewhere a reason to stop buying jags then

Not really, you should be making the judgement on the car not the company really, every auto company is global these days.
JLR are still pumping a huge amount into the local economy and the supply chain.

From some of the comments above you would think they make rubbish cars, but I do like my Jag – it was unreliable in the first year but all fixed under warranty, it drives far more nicely than the competition (I’m thinking bmw or Audi) has 340hp so is plenty quick enough, and will do 40+ mpg on a run. It is a shame their electric effort is so expensive, but it is their first one so hopefully they survive long enough to make a decent one.

From some of the comments above you would think they make rubbish cars

They do Discoveries for starters lovely vehicle but hopeless build quality.

but I do like my Jag – it was unreliable in the first year but all fixed under warranty, it drives far more nicely than the competition (I’m thinking bmw or Audi) has 340hp so is plenty quick enough, and will do 40+ mpg on a run.

I have no idea why that doesn’t appeal to people? Crap MPG and power you don’t need…..

Their vehicles often have great design flair but JLR’s problems boil down to:

1. Lack of strategy. They made big bets on bad choices (more diesel, slow to get going on electric, over reliance on the Chinese market).

2. Poor quality product. In the last vehicle reliability rankings they had three out of the 5 most unreliable cars on the market.

3. This is compounded by outrageously high repair costs, snooty dealers and poor customer service.

If I look around my area there are a surprising number of people who can afford cars from Audi, Volvo etc that compete squarely with the Jaguar and Land Rover equivalent models. But there are no JLR vehicles – why?

I’m sure sure JLR will continue to blame Brexit but their problems are much closer to home. Hopefully the management team will turn the tanker before any more employees pay the price for their failure to deal with the issues above.

Mike, your last two posts seem somewhat conflicted to me….

Nope judge on the car, the post about crap reliability, mpg and service would and should put people off.

Happy to take money off them from a corporate perspective as there still seems to be enough mugs to keep buying them!

340bhp suggests you have nd XE S or F-type, timbog160. None of the tests or official figures I can find gets anywhere near 40mpg. In nearly any petrol car I drive I can match the best claimed figures driving at less than 80km/h (50mph) on traffic free French a-roads. However I can’t do better, and the best figure I’ve seen claimed for a 340bhp Jag is 34.9mpg. I suggest you do a brim to brim test of your own with a GPS for distance and then get back to us. Just warming up a Jag takes a gallon by which time you’ll have covered about 15 miles. After that you’d have to be in rural Scotland and keep below 55mph to better 30mpg.

Official XE S figures
Consommation / Autonomie
Ville 13,9 L/100km
Autoroute 9,7 L/100km
Combinée 12,0 L/100km
Autonomie 525 km

And an F-type test:

https://www.evo.co.uk/jaguar/f-type/page/0/4

Edukator – it’s a XF 3.0 V6 diesel, but with a TDI tuning box, which takes the stock 300hp up to 340 (claimed based on the setting I run it at – its supposed to be able to get it up to 360ish max but I rarely bother with that). I did say 40+ on a run (generally a steady 70-80). You are correct in that round town it won’t get past low 30’s mpg if that – all the above based on miles vs litres used, rather than the computer. As with all manufacturers the claimed figures are wildly higher!

My previous car was a V8 supercharged Range Rover which was both woefully unreliable and uneconomic (think 15mpg) so for the moment I’m happy with what I get, but when I change (prob end this year, early next) I’ll be looking for something that gives a further step change in economy.

Ahhh, so it’s got special box to make it break all the pollution laws and produce much more filth than standard. I’d better stop there.

How are they cleaner?

Diesels still produce less CO2 than petrol engines – the reduction in the number of new diesels on the road has resulted in the production of CO2 from new cars increasing by about 3% last year.
You can’t win at the moment.

But JRL products produce so much more CO2 than smaller lighter cars (whether petrol, diesel or hybrid) that the group has no hope of meeting the average CO2 targets that are soon to bite other than by having a large proportion of electric vehicles in its range. The only reason JLR is going electric is because it will be legislated out of existance if it doesn’t. Unless Britain leaves the EU of course which is perhaps why JLR is so keen to highlight all of its other woes and claim Brexit is not a major factor in its choices.

Have a look at JRL products and compare the CO2 figures with cars with equivalent people and load carrying capcity from Renault. JRL went diesel to avoid their products being taxed off the roads and now they’ll have to go electric, if it isn’t already too late.

Mercedes brought Smart, BMW have Mini. The Germans reacted to average CO2 targets while JLR group concentrated on big polluting monsters as they always have. Idiots.

It doesn’t matter which way you go – petrol or diesel, the way private cars are currently used feels unsustainable in the long run. Demonising diesels is just doing the same as Gordon Brown did in the early part of this century when he demonised petrol (to be fair based on the advice he was given). Ultimately people need to drive less, and this I think will be the problem for ALL manufacturers not just JLR.

Ultimately people need to drive less

Absolutely.