OP – you’re clearly in a ‘vulnerable’ (hate that word) state of mind and place right now.

Firstly you need to sort out your marriage and get counselling. You need to be able to look both yourself, your wife and your kids, in the eye and say ‘I have tried my darn hardest’.

Secondly, put some distance between yourself and this ‘incredible woman’. You need a clear head, for the sake of your kids too.

FWIW I do agree with tazzy’s comments and feel that he’s very brave in going against the consensus on here. He speaks sense and, actually, have some experience of this myself. BUT very much a last resort.

Isn’t that the definition of a good friendship?

Do your partners both know all about this? If so, it might be a good friendship. If not, it’s probably an emotional affair.

emotional affair.

Is that still classed as cheating ?

(Genuine question)

In a Legal (grounds for divorce) sense

Or in a “Moral” sense.

Errmm, I’m not an expert, but . . .

I think the law changed in the 1970s, so that adultery in itself was no longer a sufficient ground for divorce. Nowadays, the spouse also has to find it intolerable to live with the cheating spouse.

The more common ground is “unreasonable behaviour”, and I guess an EA could fall into this category. And often it is just the early stages of a physical affair.

But enough of this dreary talk – the OP is sorting out his marriage, isn’t he?

“brought up in a household with simmering resentment”

Bit of a distinction: ^ usually is when ones betrayed the other and they stay together to work it out for the sake of the kids.

Wheres the simmering resentment if neither cheated?

See.

Wheres the simmering resentment if neither cheated?

trapped in a loveless marriage, knowing that you are together purely for the sake of kids, no physical connection or contact, more displacement behaviour than you can shake an entire man cave worth of bikes at,knowing that you are seen as purely a source of financial security, no willingness to go to relate, nope can’t see any reason for resentment in those sorts of situations at all hora..it’s all just black and white isn’t it? 🙄

So you got hurt, and then married someone safe. Years down the line you’ve recovered. Your wife’s a really nice person, nothing wrong with her, but there’s no zing. Plus, children take up lots of time, money and energy. You’re both tired.

Sex takes a back seat. A man’s sex drive (or so it seems to me) is diminished by… um, nothing, a woman’s sex drive is diminished by: feeling bloated, feeling fat, dirty dishes, untidy house, worrying about the rabbit/gerbil/hamster, something on tv, problems with in-laws, parents, children, school, bills, mate having better clothes, next door’s car, the weather (I’m allowed to say this, I’m a woman), where to go on holiday, worrying about getting pregnant again, messy sheets – oh, the list is endless.

I don’t think you have met the most incredible woman in the world. I do think you’ve realised that something is missing though, and it’s been a useful wake-up call.

Can you get away by yourself for a weekend? (Do not invite Ms Incredible). Have you got a tent maybe? Take your bike and get away, do some riding, and some thinking. Come back and have a word with your wife, she may not be happy either. Time for some straight talking.

Whatever the **** else you do, don’t stay together for your children. Children always know when something is wrong, they pick up on the sniping and jibes. It’s a terrible example for them and a horrible atmosphere too.

Good luck!

I think tazzy writes a lot of sense. If the unhappiness comes through at home that can be bad for children. From memory I think most of a child’s adult behaviour style is determined by 5 ( in terms of insecure, confident etc).

Tazzymtb its called never take the other person for granted.

If you become idle etc ANY new relationship will go the same trudgery.

22yrs here.

Karonine (f) friend was saying that her boyfriend is literally a machine. Wants it all the time/even when ill. I laughed and said ‘typical healthy bloke’!!

Tazzymtb its called never take the other person for granted.

OMG I never thought of that!

can I live in your world please? does it have unicorns and clouds made of candy-floss?

hora LOL – ex-boyfriend wanted loads of attention when ill: I HATE anyone being around me when I’m ill. Leave me alone to be ill in peace! 🙂

trapped in a loveless marriage, knowing that you are together purely for the sake of kids, no physical connection or contact, more displacement behaviour than you can shake an entire man cave worth of bikes at,knowing that you are seen as purely a source of financial security, no willingness to go to relate, nope can’t see any reason for resentment in those sorts of situations at all hora..it’s all just black and white isn’t it?

I think this is miles away from the original post, this doesn’t sound anything like the marriage he has. I do kind of see what you mean about somebody who is just using you, but if you want to take the discussion I’d say you chose to have children with that type of person, but your children didn’t chose either of you as their parents.its something you should have put a bit more thought into before going down that road.

Unfortunatly I am in a world were things haven’t gone to plan and life/relationships come under the kind of pressure that most marriages don’t come up against and all to often blokes (mostly but not completely) cut and run, cos they never really thought about how strong things were before they started a family.

Nealglover, think I made myself clear in the second post – put some effort in.

So many people that I would like to reply to; Sorry if I miss one but I appreciate everyone’s input (Even Horas… 😉 ).
So many people are assuming that this is a physical crush, infatuation thing, and that a w%$k will go a long way to solving my problems. Cheers, but thats not really it; I fancy/am sexually attracted to women all the time, (I am a bloke after all) and I can handle that perfectly well. As corny as it may sound, this is a higher plane of connection. That is what has completely thrown me. (Not that I don’t fancy the arse off her, I do, but I could easily deal with it if it just that…)

johnikgriff – Member If he’s not thinking about it, what’s the point of th original post

OK, of course I’m thinking about it; I’d be lying if I tried to say I haven’t daydreamed a million possible scenarios to see how it could work. But, importantly, I’d like to be clear here, I have also almost completely dismissed it as pie in the sky, can never happen, stuff. What doubts I do have are based around the same kind of thinking as Tazzy’s points; ie, is it really better for the kids if I hang around, when neither of us want to be together, really. BUT. We are not at that stage at the moment, and if I buck my ideas up, and if my wife bucks hers up too, maybe this can be fixed. And I owe it to my wife and family to try my damned hardest. The point of my original post wasn’t really ‘help me to feel better about maybe walking out’ as much as ‘help me figure out a way to move forward, because I’ve stupidly allowed myself to get into an excruciatingly painful situation of entirely my own devising and I can’t find the exit’. And I’ve recieved a lot of good (and some frankly shoddy :lol:) advice in that regard, thank you.

eggshellblonde, cinnamon_girl, Karinofnine, a very special thanks. a reasoned, level headed response from women is greatly appreciated. Some of your thoughts were bang on, some less so. It really ISN’T the sex side of things, its the emotional side of stuff that I’ve been missing out on, but i guess most of the principles still apply. (except I’m not quite sure how to have the emotional equivelent of tommy tank; ummm, charidee work maybe? lol. dunno).

Anyway, thanks all. Hora, you’re a lovely, simple bloke, aren’t you? 😉 (and I’m told you have a staggeringly beautiful phallus, so I suppose everything balances out in the end…)

Stay married and make her your Mistress.

Depends how good you are at compartmentalising… Exploring a new relationship will be good for you and in turn good for the energy you share with your kids.

I’ve only read bits of this thread so I’m going to contribute my own experience and it may be totally irrelevant. But this is STW and I must be heard!

My parents stayed together for my sake until after I’d left uni. At times it was amusing how much they clearly hated each other but mostly it was just an unpleasant environment to grow up in. Looking back it’s clearly had a fairly large hand in making me the misanthrope I am today. Of course, they never asked me, but I think I could see the relationship was broken long before either of them could. I don’t remember them ever being happy as such, but it definitely got worse slowly over many years. I don’t know if it may have started out like the OP? Certainly I have subsequently heard bitter accusations of cheating, but to be frank I really don’t care about that. If one of my parents cheated, it wasn’t on me, it was on their spouse.

I guess what that boils down to is don’t stay together “for the kids”, stay together because it’s what both of you want. Or don’t. But leave the new woman out of the equation, you either want to stay married or you don’t.

Unknown, Thank you for that perspective, it is not often heard.

I was thinking about this while out with the dogs.

It could be that your wife’s unhelpful remarks could mean that SHE wants out, but doesn’t quite know how to start that conversation. So maybe you are going to have to be the one to start it.

I’m sure Ms Incredible does make you feel amazing, I know that feeling, those snatched moments, the unity of the misunderstood – it’s intoxicating, better than Class A. I really do understand BUT if it IS love she will wait. If you just **** off with the new woman, it will feel great for a while (and it may very well last) but any left over shit will taint your new relationship.

What has to happen here is that, years into the future, you can look back on this and see that you did the right thing – for everyone – and that includes you. So you need to do some thinking, and then some talking, and some more talking, until you sort this out.

If you split up, in the future your children will accept new partners, but not now.

Try to engineer some space for you and your wife to have that chat, be brave, and honest, listen to what she has to say.

Let us know how you get on.

to re-hash a few earlier posts (I should have noted who they were- it’s taken so long to get through the thread) with my own experiences:

i’ve refused to have anything to do with my dad since 98/99ish, and will never see him. By association I’ve cut off his side of the family (they’d tell him where i lived/when i was coming around), and I miss my cousins, and my grandma’s not got many years left – it’s a {sweary} odd feeling deciding that you won’t go to the funerals of these people.

I think, but obviously can’t know, that had my dad had some dignity about the whole thing it’d have been an option to keep in touch. instead, my mum knew he was having an affair for a year before he left (he took her to a restaurant to break the news so she wouldn’t make a scene), i knew a few months before the split (always remember there’s nowhere in the house you can talk that the kids don’t know how to eavesdrop on), when he announced he was leaving he showed us (little sister and i) a photo of his new girl-friend, then asked for a hug. I’ll never forgive myself for not taking a swing at him at that point. in the next few months he came back and left again twice – trying it all for size. the ****
I was 17 at the time, and we’d not got on for years, so it didn’t directly effect me much (my group of friends all had similar home lives so we never went home till the pubs shut), but my 13 yr old sister slept with mum for the next year. i despise him for the mess he made of my sister and how he walked over mum.

Nonetheless, i understand why he acted like he did – he’s a coward. I’m the same, i see so much of him in the things i do, we only differ in that i don’t forgive, or ask forgiveness (that sounds more preachy than i mean it to). resultantly, i’ve never wanted kids as i know what kind of father i’d be, and i’ve been celibate these last 5 years as i inevitably act a ****, and it’s not fair on anyone involved. (he complained to mum a few years ago that if my cousins had forgiven his brother’s (simultaneous) affair, why hadn’t i forgiven his)

oh, plus: a workmate when i was at university offered me the pearl of wisdom about the in-a-relationship young lady i was courting “if she’s sucking you off while she’s got a boyfriend, what do you thing she’ll do when you’re going out with her?” – he was bang on. (you can subby this for declaring love/ emotional affairing – that stuff doesn’t sting much less i imagine)

in summary – however the marriage pans out, don’t treat the kids like fools. they’ll know, and resent you for it.

I think that shows more than anything children’s feelings really do matter and disregarding them can cause years of pain. However the harm can happen if parents stay together or split – it all comes down to how it’s handled.

I think I am with tazzy in that I feel it is best not to stay where you are if you aren’t happy, but I know many who do and I don’t see that as wrong – just not for me. I guess I might say life it too short where as friends in that situation would argue childhood is very short so they are prepared to sit it out.

Years ago I got into a similar situation. I was in a bad relationship and got a lot of support from a male friend who was similarly despondent with his. Initially it was just about having someone to talk to but things developed and we ended up having an affair. I split with my partner and after quite a while he said he was going to leave his wife.

I loved him and did dream about being together but in my heart I knew for him it was just a case of the grass being greener. I had left my partner as I knew it would never work whereas he was only going because I was there. I knew if I wasn’t in the equation he would stay where he was.

When I told him I only wanted him to leave his wife if he didn’t want to be with her not because he wanted to be with me – it didn’t go down too well, we saw each other for a while afterwards but it eventually stopped. I moved away and missed him, thought of him often but knew I did the right thing for them.

Strangely I was back driving through the village last weekend and noticed the time, I remembered it as the time he would always walk to the pub for a beer after football – and as I went round the corner there he was! 20 years on doing the same thing, obviously happy with his chosen corner of the world and life he has. I am very happy I didnt spoil their family life.

My dreams really dont involve living in the same village forever, I would have probably been a nightmare for him in reality and then would have then got the blame from all angles for wrecking what he had. Sometimes it is better to know you love someone and think the world of them enough to let them live the life they need.

I guess all I can really say is do what is right for you – but you will have to let the other lady decide what is right for her. If you truly cant stay where you are you will know and that should be about just you and your wife and no-one else.

Ps and if you children are below 5 – I would wait before making any monumental decisions until you have slept properly and got over the early years madness.

wununeredandeighty!

OP, You’re not the first to be in this situation, and won’t be the last. I was in a similar position many years ago, but I’ve got no nuggets of wisdom to offer, and I’m not even going to tell you which way I chose or what the long term outcome was, as there’s no right or wrong answer and every situation is different.

What I will say is that you need to realise that at the moment you’re being controlled by primeval chemical reactions your conscious brain has very little control over – unfortunately we’re still a slave to our biology! However, the good news is that evolution is impatient, and stalling for time is your best defence as time will give you a much better perspective – one way or the other. But you seem to be a pretty sensible chap, and have probably worked that out for yourself already.

My only other suggestion is to get a bottle of your favourite tipple and a take-away curry and sit down alone and watch Martin Scorsese’s “The Age Of Innocence” where Daniel Day Lewis, Michelle Pfeiffer, and Wynona Ryder make a much better job of illustrating the excruciating agony of a love triangle than I ever could! It won’t give you the answer either, but you will recognise a lot of what you’re going through at the moment, and it just might help you to see another perspective on it…

Good luck…

 But I would bet a lot of the “MTFU” or “grow up” advisers on here are the same guys that have to get permission to ride their £3k bikes once in a blue moon, between ferrying the kids around, being generally bitch whipped and eyeing up younger women in the supermarket.

You are way Wrong. There is no way my missus would let me spaff 3k on a bike.

In my mind there is no such thing as an ‘incredible’ woman. We are complicated and often bound by hormones.
Also I detest the word ‘soulmate’, imo there is no such thing. Best Friends yes, fantastically in love yes. However love must not get mixed up with lust.

Walk away from this woman. See what happens in the future as to whether she marries her partner or not. Most of all try and sort out your feelings with your wife (under not circumstances tell her about the woman).
Any woman with young children as in a land of just trying to look after the children, house, finances, cooking, cleaning and just normal life. I get the impression you are helping out with all these things but there is the resentment that you are no longer number one. This is normal.

The majority on here have said step away and leave the other woman alone and try to sort things out with the wife. I agree with these statements.

Good luck

Just to counter some of the stories above, my dad had lots of affairs and by the time i was three, my mum had had enough, kicked him out and shacked up with the bachelor in the farm next door, who won my sister and I over with a bag of crisps and a toy horse. Still have a great relationship with both parents, but my dad still feels guilty for not being there as his kids grew up. Not making any points really, just adding my experience…

Strangely I was back driving through the village last weekend and noticed the time, I remembered it as the time he would always walk to the pub for a beer after football – and as I went round the corner there he was! 20 years on doing the same thing, obviously happy with his chosen corner of the world and life he has. I am very happy I didnt spoil their family life.

Such a poignant story…

Sounded like he wanted two women/his cake and eat it whilst palming off the inevitable with lies to me.

Sounded like he wanted two women/his cake and eat it whilst palming off the inevitable with lies to me

Should apply some structure or punctuation to that sentence; unless of course you were the inevitable he palmed off, whilst lying to you about Bunnyhop?

Me? I mean the poster ^ unless I was in a onesided homosexual relationship with a guy that wouldnt leave 😀

palming off the inevitable

No need with two ladies available, shirley?

Some of have been in such a situation.

Too much;

Lying (guilt guilt)
And..
Plenty of wild action

Hora; please proof read your posts; I’m sure they make sense to you, but the rest of us are struggling…

Punctuation would be a start.

You need to have experienced what we have before it makes sense.

Why are some men (and women) wired to have carnal-driven desire?

Edit; Double post

Are you drunk?
Your posts read like a malfunctioning dear deidre random word generator.

I didn’t double-post.

Spasmic Gherkin – please excuse me for saying but you sound really messed up

Never forgiving, cutting off family, to my mind it all sounds extraordinary..

i am, it’s shit.
anger, alcoholism and a moral code that’s guaranteed to find me wanting.

this isn’t necessarily a result of the divorce, i was a broken biscuit beforehand too.

(i’m generally quite a funny, easygoing chap though)

to clarify (i took too long typing and missed the edit), the not forgiving thing sounds worse than i meant. the idea that you can dick around a family for a year till you decide what’d make you happiest, then with a “sorry about that”, or “but that was years ago” make it all better (a la my dad) riles me. it’s not petty stuff, but things with clear ramifications that you choose to do regardless – you’re making your bed, best be ready to lie in it.

I hope the way you deal with it works for you sg and lets tou get on with life.

The way things are dealt with in our childhood can have a massive effect on us. My brother is slightly older than me so remembers more of the horrid details of our parents splitting up he still views the situation with his 4 year old eyes and it is very black and white to him.

I dont remember it so clearly so have learnt to forget about it and generally view it as nothing to do with me, they were my parents arguements and it was their relationship going down the pan. Not mine and I was just a bystander, the reprocussions were truly awful and I didnt get to see what my mother looked like until I was 12

But – I honestly believe neither one of my parents set out to hurt us and try to base my relationships with them now on the here and now not on arguements 4 decades ago.

I wish my brother could do the same and then maybe his family could all live for the moment without having to be so aware that a big chunk of his mind is stuck in 1974. I hope things have moved on for the general population since then as it was still a time when so much was not talked about and had loads of stigma attached to it.

As I have always said to my children – if you have an issue with something that I do or that happens make sure you says so now and save yourself years of expensive therapy as adults 🙂

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/shall-i-sell-my-exs-car-whilst-shes-just-jetted-off-for-2wks-with-another-man

Are you sure she’s that wonderful maybe she’s having a two week break