Viewing 40 posts - 121 through 160 (of 175 total)
  • I've always liked America and this is why….
  • MSP
    Full Member

    Well then you can just go an argue the toss with the millions of people who each year go to the US for their education and pay a lot of money for the privileged. I think they’re convinced and it’s their money they are spending.

    America has Hollywood as its main marketing tool, and the false promise of the American dream. Many people go to America for education expecting it to be the promised land and to end up living in a Beverly Hills mansion, the reality is much much tougher.

    ernie_lynch
    Free Member

    The US has a population more than 5 times that of the UK, it would be reasonable to assume that this is reflected in some way in how many university places it has available. A quick search reveals that the US has apparently twice the number of foreign students that the UK has.

    MSP
    Full Member

    [video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yloNmBTKNIE[/video]

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    jota180
    Free Member

    Leaving aside geetees made up claim that millions of people go to the US for their education

    They go in vast numbers to Aus & the UK too – proportionally a great many more that the US
    It’s not because the best education in the world is found in these countries, it’s because the best English education is available

    geetee1972
    Free Member

    Leaving aside geetees made up claim that millions of people go to the US for their education

    It’s not made up. I’ve seen the data.

    And people willingly paying for something very far from suggests that it must therefore be the best.

    I agree, but there is lots of other data, empirical measurement of alum performance and research, that supports my argument. These are things like salary attainment post graduation, numbers of board level positions attained, number of papers published in peer review journals, numbers of faculty, funding per head of student population etc.

    geetee1972
    Free Member

    Here is some evidence. It is the prevalence of US schools in the global top 100 that I use as evidence for America having the best higher education system in the world.

    TES Top 400

    QS

    Academic Ranking of World Universities

    TandemJeremy
    Free Member


    america by TandemJeremy, on Flickr

    TandemJeremy
    Free Member

    Child mortality rates are 2 or 3 times most european countries

    TooTall
    Free Member

    TJ – please – stop. You are at one of your activity peaks again. Like sun spots and other things that cause chaos. Your American troops link (to the Mail of all places) is trite and proves nothing. However, if you are just trying to up your post count, crack on.

    geetee1972
    Free Member

    TJ it’s a terrible situation. The Panorama programme made me think of things in a very different way (ignoring the Daily Fail story) and while I am still a fan of America, I’m not quite as big a fan as I used to be.

    I’ve adjusted my opinion and view.

    I think it’s important to be able to do that. Don’t you?

    TandemJeremy
    Free Member

    Tootall I think that daily mail link shows a lot about the ingrained attitudes and values of the USA and is a decent rebuttal to some of the glowing one eyed praise Geetee has been posting.

    Plenty more instances of that sort of thing available

    TooTall
    Free Member

    I think that daily mail link shows a lot about the ingrained attitudes and values of the USA

    Woah. Stop right there fella. If you really do think that, then you know nothing of the military as a whole and the American people in general. You are just using it as a platform to demonstrate your own prejudices.

    Let me tell you what my dad told me years ago on his interpretation of racism. He said it was a fear of something different. Some people are threatened by people who look different, sound different, dress different – even behave different. Those people tend not to educate themselves as to why those differences exist and prefer to hide behind their ignorance. They end up not understanding and reveal their own insecurities – perhaps in attacks, whether they be verbal or physical, indirect or indirect.

    I quite like that as a basic tale I was told as a kid. You appear to be demonstrating those traits, TJ. Quite shallow, poor logic and just making a point to perpetuate your uneducated view on the topic.

    TandemJeremy
    Free Member

    I am racist because I abhor the racist behaviour of the American military?

    🙄

    all I am doing here is providing a counterpoint to the rose tinted view of Geetee. This sort of abhorrent behaviour while not solely the province of US troops is a common thread running thru their military.

    Devaluing and dehumanising funny foreign fellas they are killing.

    TooTall
    Free Member

    Have you met any of ‘their military’ TJ?

    Your attacks are tedious and prove nothing, other than your Google-Fu.

    geetee1972
    Free Member

    I am racist because I abhor the racist behaviour of the American military?

    No, the argument is that you are racist because you’re using a story about a few individuals’ behaviour to draw conclusions about an entire nation of 300m+ people.

    is a decent rebuttal to some of the glowing one eyed praise Geetee has been posting.

    It is a good rebuttal. It shows that the country isn’t perfect. Far from it.

    I don’t think that makes me ‘one eyed’ though.

    TandemJeremy
    Free Member

    Yes. Like all peoples as individuals they are fine. However as a group their behaviour is repugnant to any civilised person. You cannot defend this sort of behaviour and it is not a one of abberation.

    Its a product of their racist attitudes

    TooTall
    Free Member

    I’ll repeat the question, TJ. Have you met any of ‘their military’? Or are you basing your entire knowledge upon the media and their reporting?

    TandemJeremy
    Free Member

    TandemJeremy – Member

    Yes. Like all peoples as individuals they are fine. However as a group their behaviour is repugnant to any civilised person. You cannot defend this sort of behaviour and it is not a one of abberation.

    Its a product of their racist attitudes

    TandemJeremy
    Free Member

    geetee1972

    No, the argument is that you are racist because you’re using a story about a few individuals’ behaviour to draw conclusions about an entire nation of 300m+ people.

    where have I drawn conclusions about the entire nation? Point it out. If you are going to accuse me of something then back it up

    ernie_lynch
    Free Member

    I’ll repeat the question, TJ. Have you met any of ‘their military’? Or are you basing your entire knowledge upon the media and their reporting?

    That’s a silly argument. I have never met a member of the Khmer Rouge, the Waffen SS, or the Israel Defense Force, but I have a right to an opinion based on their behaviour.

    Although I do agree that TJ is completely going over the top in his attacks on American society. Urinating onto corpses is just an motive issue which should not be used to wholesale condemn a people imo.

    jota180
    Free Member

    The issue is often not individual poor behaviour – you’ll get that all over – it’s the frequency of such incidents and the system that allows them to think it’s something they’ll get away with

    When they don’t, you hear about it

    I’ve met hundreds of US GIs and air force personnel, the GIs are about as arrogant and opinionated and selfish as anyone I’ve ever met
    The air force guys seemed OK

    TandemJeremy
    Free Member

    Ernie – where have I done this?

    wholesale condemn a people.

    all I have done is given a counterpoint to geetees one eyed view

    ernie_lynch
    Free Member

    Ernie – where have I done this?

    Well I think your link to the article concerning the yanks urinating on corpses was an attempt to do that.

    Right, I’m outta here.

    wallace1492
    Free Member

    Are the US military guilty of abuse – hell yes.
    Are they alone – hell no.
    Do they get the most publicity – hell yes.

    It is a minority of the US military that behave badly, and they get the most publicity. The huge scrutiny they are under with imbeded journmalists etc ensures it all comes out.

    The attrocities by other countries are far far worse.

    loum
    Free Member

    Do they get the most publicity – hell yes.

    Spoken like a true yank, even if you’re not.
    Its complete nonsense.
    Every headline on every news broadcast over the last two weeks has been anti-Syrian publicity, to prepare us for the coming US invasion.
    All the talk of numbers dead from violence, but no mention that more people suffered violent deaths in Iraq last month, in a War started nine years ago and still not resolved.
    American publicised abuse – tip of an iceberg.

    TooTall
    Free Member

    I have never met a member of the Khmer Rouge, the Waffen SS, or the Israel Defense Force, but I have a right to an opinion based on their behaviour.

    You do, but you have the advantage of most of their behaviour being in the past and the analysis of historians, rather than just the media and their desire to sell newspapers.

    the GIs are about as arrogant and opinionated and selfish as anyone I’ve ever met

    Not my experiences on the whole, but there you go.

    TJ – I take it from your lack of answer you’ve not met any. If I were to judge ‘all Englishmen living in Scotland’ from what I read on the internet, what conclusions could I leap to?

    TandemJeremy
    Free Member

    Tootall – I have answered you twice

    TandemJeremy – Member

    Yes. ( I have met them) Like all peoples as individuals they are fine. However as a group their behaviour is repugnant to any civilised person. You cannot defend this sort of behaviour and it is not a one of abberation.

    Its a product of their racist attitudes

    LHS
    Free Member

    TJ I wish you would stop with your hateful run down of another nation when the great land that you live within is no better.

    Malnutrition, MRSA, poisoning of saline solution – all rife in the NHS

    Soldiers torturing and desicrating Iraqis and Afghans – all rife within the UK armed forces.

    Racism and Police brutality to protesters – rife within the UK police force

    People in glass houses….

    TooTall
    Free Member

    OK – thought you were refering to the American nation as a whole. Would you care to expand upon why they were so repugnant and what the occasion was? It has marked you in such a way it must have been a big thing.

    Who is defending the behaviour? Not me.

    TandemJeremy
    Free Member

    This whole thread was based around a very one eyed view promoting how great teh US is.

    I thought a counterpoint to it was need.

    There are a number of people on here who will defend the US come what may.

    LHS
    Free Member

    I thought a counterpoint to it was need

    No you didn’t, you just took it as an opportunity to be spiteful about a nation you clearly hate and feel the need to critisise. It’s sad.

    TandemJeremy
    Free Member

    Really – you know my motivations better than I do? how odd.

    loum
    Free Member

    LHS, you’re the on sounding spiteful and personal here.
    It’s fine to point out that the UK does have a lot of comparable problems, but the thread is “I’ve always liked America and this is why….” so it is strange to use your points to try to stifle debate about America.

    wallace1492
    Free Member

    “Let the nation that is without sin cast the first stone”

    There is virtually no perfect nation on Earth, they all have faults in various respects. In the grand scheme, the USA is generally one of the better nations IMHO. A lot of the modern infrastructure, innovation and invention has come from over the pond. We have not done too badly ourselves.

    However as a report card would say – “could do better”

    And no, there will be no invation of Syria. It is not anti – Syrian publicity – it is anti Syrian Regieme, bit of a difference there.

    TooTall
    Free Member

    It isn’t a debate – it is TJ demonstrating his dislike, not a counterpoint. All militaries have breakdowns of discipline on occasion. To use such a thing in a ‘debate’ on the pros and cons of a country is about as daft as tryng to present it as a debate.

    There are a number of people on here who will defend attack the US come what may.

    One is no better than the other.

    LHS
    Free Member

    to try to stifle debate about America.

    Its not debate, its hate.

    loum
    Free Member

    At a time when the US administration has only warm words for those brave enough to demand respect for their civil rights in the Middle East, it is sobering to be reminded of the US’s own flagrant, continued abuse of human rights by detaining people without trial in Guantanamo – years after Barack Obama pledged to close the prison down.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/leading-articles/leading-article-an-anniversary-that-should-shame-us-all-6804810.html?origin=internalSearch

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/letters-raise-fears-for-last-briton-in-guantanamo-6804791.html?origin=internalSearch

    MrWoppit
    Free Member

    TandemJeremy – Member
    Ernie – where have I done this?

    wholesale condemn a people.

    all I have done is given a counterpoint to geetees one eyed view

    geetee1972
    Free Member

    TJ – I am OK with all of the counter points and the alternative arguments. Sometimes your view points do make me think and make me review my opinion.

    But do you think you could just have a bit more respect for my arguments rather than belittling them with comments like ‘one eyed’?

    I am a highly educated, highly intelligent individual and while I don’t claim to have a monopoly on what is absolute (as if there is such a thing) I think a little more respect is becoming.

    One other thing regarding your comments on the military. If you’d spent time on a front line I don’t think you would have a different opinion to the one you have now, but I am almost sure you would express it differently.

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