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  • It really was another era (F1 content)
  • Premier Icon wwaswas
    Subscriber

    There just seems to be so much ‘wrong’ in this image and yet it was the pinnacle of motor sport, the real professionals.

    I expect in Formula Ford they’d all have been smoking as well.

    Fittipaldi does have a bit of a worried look in his eyes, it has to be said.

    Premier Icon blurty
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    Is that a milk churn!!

    Premier Icon wwaswas
    Subscriber

    Is that a milk churn!!

    the more you look the more wtf it gets 🙂

    dragon
    Member

    it was the pinnacle of motor sport

    Speed yes, safety no. Just think of some of the horror stories around the rally Group B cars and some very dubious fuel tank placements etc.

    Premier Icon WillH
    Subscriber

    The size of the fire extinguisher!! Imagine the size of the fireball if that lot ignited!

    Premier Icon wwaswas
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    they didn’t do it much differently in the 1930’s.

    Note flame proof overcoat deployed.

    Nomex tweed, I notice.

    badnewz
    Member

    The most flammable substance in the second photo is the hair gel.
    No premature baldness those days, either.

    jambalaya
    Member

    Not even a seat belt in the 1930’s. Milk churn 🙂

    sands
    Member

    Remember 1994 German GP – Jos (Max’s dad) Verstappen pit stop.

    Tabloids ran the headline: “Ignited colours of Benetton”

    The FIA investigation “revealed Benetton had been using an illegal fuel valve without a fuel filter that allowed fuel into the car 12.5% faster than a legal fuel valve.”
    Wiki

    holst
    Member

    Is that a clown standing two pits down in the original picture?

    athgray
    Member

    I like the 1930’s driver issue safari hat.

    taxi25
    Member

    Going back, even after seat belts were available, they weren’t popular with drivers. Thinking was it was better to be thrown clear in a crash rather than being strapped into a burning wreck 😯

    Premier Icon SaxonRider
    Subscriber

    Is that a clown standing two pits down in the original picture?

    That’s not just any clown. That’s Ronald himself!

    badnewz
    Member

    The world’s tallest man is in the pit next door to Ronald.

    sands
    Member

    Is that a clown standing two pits down in the original picture?

    That’s not just any clown. That’s Ronald himself!

    Enlarging the image, it appears to be a person in a red t-shirt and beige trousers attempting to s(h)it on someone else’s head. HTH 🙂

    Premier Icon pondo
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    A lot not to like about that era – the danger, chiefly. But also a lot to admire and enjoy – great-looking cars, fantastic racing and some real characters, before the cold winds of commercialisation blew too strongly for them to remain.

    Premier Icon slowoldman
    Subscriber

    I would have thought in the 30s/40s a quick fag during the refuelling stop would be de rigeur.

    bensales
    Member

    Some motorsports still do it…

    [video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtQPJTjNpOI[/video]

    badnewz
    Member

    It’s hard to separate the danger from the thrill.
    I find the snooker gets my heart racing more than F1 these days.

    Premier Icon richmtb
    Subscriber

    Mid 80’s Lotus?

    Its probably running on 80+% toluene which is quite hard to ignite outside of a hot engine so not that dangerous.

    Jos the Boss was in a 90’s Benneton that ran on pretty standard (relatively speaking) petrol. Much more volatile at lower temps and easier to ignite.

    Engine tech from the early turbo era is absolute fascinating, some designs were injecting so much fuel in to the turbo stage that they were effectively gas turbines.

    Most of the designs were about as reliable as a hand grenade though

    Premier Icon wwaswas
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    Mid 80’s Lotus?

    Emerson Fittipaldi, Lotus-Ford, 1972 Italian Grand Prix, Monza.

    Premier Icon matt_outandabout
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    Good to see one of them wearing the supplied ppe…

    Premier Icon pictonroad
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    Engine tech from the early turbo era is absolute fascinating, some designs were injecting so much fuel in to the turbo stage that they were effectively gas turbines.

    injecting fuel into the turbo stage??

    really? combustion happens in a cylinder physically sealed from the turbo at the point of ignition.

    hydrocarbon combustion aside I’m struggling to see anything even remotely similar

    holst
    Member

    The anti-lag systems injected fuel into the turbo to keep it spinning. Basically a small turboshaft engine to drive the compressor.

    birky
    Member

    Premier Icon pictonroad
    Subscriber

    I see, thanks for explaining.

    Premier Icon richmtb
    Subscriber

    injecting fuel into the turbo stage??

    really? combustion happens in a cylinder physically sealed from the turbo at the point of ignition.

    hydrocarbon combustion aside I’m struggling to see anything even remotely similar

    Have a read of this Cosworth Turbo Engine

    The Cosworth engine didn’t use a lot of this type of “ant-lag” but Ferrari were suspected of using it to massive effect.

    Think of it as an afterburner for an F1 engine. Its absolutely horrendous for both fuel consumption and engine life but that didn’t really matter when you want 1300hp out of 1.5 litres during a qualifying run. If the engine lasted 6 laps they were happy!

    Premier Icon pondo
    Subscriber

    Interesting read, thank you. I would say that BMW’s inline four was allegedly the most powerful of them all (they know it made 1500 on the dyno, but that’s as far as it goes up to, so they never knew how much it ultimately made!), so you didn’t necessarily need a six for the power.

    I had a book about the turbo era cars, one of the few things I remember from that was that the fuel was effectively a cooling agent, they were forcing that much of it through.

    holst
    Member

    I read a magazine article years back by a journalist who visited the BMW team back when they were using cast iron road car engine blocks for their F1 turbo engine. The story claimed the cylinder blocks were cracking so they aged them in a tank of urine. Basically the mechanics would all just wizz in the tank. They’d leave the cylinder blocks in there until they had a layer of corrosion and then take them out and machine them. Apparently relieved stress from the casting and allowed nitrogen to permeate the iron. Always wondered if it was a true story.

    Premier Icon pondo
    Subscriber

    I’d heard they used old high-mileage road car blocks, not heard about wazzing on them. 🙂

    mike_p
    Member

    That first image brings to mind Nigel Mansell’s debut race, when they accidentally spilled fuel down his back. Properly nasty, corrosive stuff – in one of his books he describes having to have the blisters cut off his backside after the race. Given the timber he carried they must have been big blisters too.

    Premier Icon pondo
    Subscriber

    Properly nasty, corrosive stuff…

    I dunno, he was harmless enough. 🙂

    Premier Icon nickc
    Subscriber

    I’d heard they used old high-mileage road car blocks

    this, they used to go cruising the taxi ranks looking for high mileage 3 series beamers, drivers would be offered a new car in a straight swap. Then they had detonation issues, that were finally solved by some old WW2 era engineering bod digging around for some Luftwaffe fuel recipes as he remembered the me109 had the same issues…

    they know it made 1500 on the dyno,

    Dynos were only accurate up to about 1000 or so and the very last M12 version (1987) put out an “estimated” 1400, in qualifying it ran at about 850 and race trim it was routinely run at about 650 , otherwise it would lunch itself, still good enough for over 220mph though…

    In race trim the Turbo cars of Mansell’s era had an overtake boost button that injectected small fixed doses fuel into the turbo, he apparently melted the pistons on one race to get back the lead by pressing the button repeatedly.

    For your ears..

    Premier Icon wwaswas
    Subscriber

    *this* is an F1 engine sound worth listening too…

    [video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umO3iqac_4c[/video]

    This auto played afterwards and is brilliant.

    I can;t believe how much air they got off the bumps (just after 4:30 mins).

    [video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZaYZQi8wtQA[/video]

    mrlebowski
    Member

    wwaswas that last vid was superb!

    Premier Icon the-muffin-man
    Subscriber

    Talking of F1 ‘air’, this has always been one of my favourite F1 images…

    digga
    Member

    BRM V16 really was a special engine; 1.5 litres and IIRC revved to around 9,000 rpm back in the 1950s!

    The story about the turbo era BMWs using iron blocks is bang on. Originally they wanted to use alloy for lightness and cleverness and to have something in common with their top-end engines, but in the end, the only block that would take the enormous pressure was the ‘cooking’ four-pot for the 318.

    Personally, I’ve never witnessed much of a greater spectacle than hearing the V10s downshift at the Variante Alta at Imola in 1996. Brutal.

    Premier Icon jonnyrobertson
    Subscriber

    ^^ The Flying Finn ^^

    Come on, someone had to say it…

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