Quite unbelievable and seriously not impressed.

Now I know its a mountain bike, and I am not too precious, the odd scratch, dent or dink is to be expected but SERIOUSLY….

I haven’t experienced this with a mucky nutz or a RRP

Am I being unreasonable with this????

full email and response below:

Dear Eric,

We are sorry that you are upset regarding the damage to your forks, in truth this is an inevitable result when attaching anything to an MTB frame that gets covered in fine grit and water and then shake the whole thing by riding down bumpy trails. You will get the same result with all the leading anti spray systems including RRP, mucky nutz etc, I know this because I have used them myself and it damaged my paintwork it is a normal result especially if the item is very slightly loose.
The only way you can reduce this scuffing is by using some form of protective tape at the contact points and keeping the hugger held as firmly as possible with the velcro or zip ties to minimise the chaffing effect.
We see this as a normal and expected result of use and would not accept any liability.

Yours Faithfully

Bruce Gardiner

?

On 5 August 2014 10:37,… wrote:

Hi, after speaking to one of your guys at the Fort William DH world cup, I bought a mudhugger front guard.

We have been lucky with the weather recently, but last week was my first wet day, and had a day DH riding in the rain.

I came away happy with the performance, keeping most of the mud and water out of my eyes, however when I removed the guard to clean the bike, I noticed a large amount of damage to the fork clearly caused by your guard!

Pictures of the damage to the fork, and the guard that should illustrate it can be found on the following flickr link. I have taken a lot of photos to try to help show the damage as best as possible, hence the link, but include a few in the email.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/46064729@N02/sets/72157646187436172/

Obviously I am really upset that a product that should protect my forks has caused this damage, I liked the idea of this over a RRP guard, as I thought it would help keep the worst muck of the seals.

I hope that there is something that you can do about this?

Jeebus, was it flapping about? Looks like there was a load of movement in it, Mucky Nutz use the same loops and I’ve never had that happening around the fork leg on 3 different setups

I tried to speak to the guy at FtBill. he was rude and dismissive so 3 of us moved on and opted not to give them our money. Now am quite glad we did. Sorry OP, that’s just not good enough really, I’d be livid.

Looks like lots of good fine grinding mud. Use frame tape.

Ouch.

I’m not especially surprised, I had some damage to the underside of the arch with mine – nothing that bad but enough to make me take it off.

Lots of heli-tape next time….

It was as firmly attached as I could manage, and I didn’t notice any flapping.

I think that additional weight and size of the mudhugger over a mucky nutz must cause it to wobble more, and consequently cause the damage, not something I had previously considered….

They supplied the velcro, but no tape to protect the fork (or instructions to do so for that matter)

Its way past paint only damage and into the metal.

seriously not suitable for its application, as the mudhugger damages the fork

I’m not sure i’m surprised. I have seen a bottle wear through a frame and a seat bag wear through a carbon seatpost in one ride.

Anything that gets strapped to a bike will move and probably take the paint with it. Either wrap it with frame tape – or care less. I do a bit of both.

I’ve had similar with an RRP.

Now always put some electrical tape on the fork first. Little use now, sorry.

Damn that’s quite bad! It happened to my forks too with the Mucky Nutz, but nowhere near as bad as that, I reduced it wetting the velco and stretching it around to keep it really tight. Although I thought it was pretty obvious it would dull the paintwork, just like a crud catcher does and eventually take off the paint after a few years, not a few days.

I will be applying helitape to the area before fitting on a new bike. I replaced the Velcro with cable ties which reduced the guard movement.

The response looks perfectly reasonable to me. I don’t know what else you could expect from contact between paint and plastic when you throw some fine, wet grit into the equation. Helitape is obviously the way to go.

I guess there’s an argument that the fitting instructions should include this as a recommendation for those that can’t see the inevitable outcome.

Does it state anywhere on the packaging or instructions that it came with that is may cause damage to paint, etc?

Must a admit I was surprised at the amount of paint it had removed. I’d say that goes well beyond superficial scratches. How many days did it take to do that?

You will get the same result with all the leading anti spray systems including RRP, mucky nutz etc,

Bullcrap! I’ve got both of these on my bikes and have had no issues whatsoever.
Unless it was really flapping around, and I guess you would have noticed this if it was, this seems to be down to bad design. The RRP guard is neoprene, so flexible, and the Mucky Nutz is thinner plastic and so will be more flexible, and move less. I suspect the problem here is the larger size, weight, and relative inflexibility of this design.

Wouldn’t expect that level of damage after one days riding.
Having said that though, looking at the photos, it looks like you’ve got the velcro on with the hard face against the forks which could go some way to explaining this. I know the instructions on the mucky nutz guards specifically say to put the velcro on with the soft side against the forks/frame to prevent rubbing like this.

I’ve flat spotted frames with cables, chewed through swing arms with tyres, cut groves in frames and forks with brake hoses. You won’t see me in the fs section very often but I do tape anything that is in contact with anything that moves.

Had no packaging or instructions included, occurred in one day.

the most concerning damage is from the plastic mudhugger against the top of the lowers by the seal, no strapping there.

the damage to the arch may have been exacerbated by having the “hard” side of the velcro against the fork, but the lowers had the velcro “soft” side round.

Looks like lots of good fine grinding mud. Use frame tape.

Mud, perfect for destroying almost anything.

It does seem like a lot of damage for a short time. I’d have helicopter taped it myself without a doubt but I suppose what you’d say is, if it’s so essential and they’re saying that amount of damage is to be expected, it falls on them to recommend it or maybe even provide tape in the kit. But certainly to make you aware.

I will agree the damage looks bad but can see how it would happen.

I have one, fitted it nice and tight with biketape behind and its been on since last winter.

I have zero damage on the lower fork legs where I taped beneath, no marking where the Velcro goes but I do have rub marks inside the arch but only 10mm square (not bare metal either)

It must have been loose and flapping about something rotten to rub / grind that much.

Edit – As above – Maybe they should recommend bike-taping ALL contact or potential contact points before fitting to prevent this and instruct people that the guard should be properly tight.

That’s quite a bit of wear. I prefer the Mucky Nutz to the Mud Hugger for the front. I consider the Mucky Nutz to more be there to protect the fork seals than anything else.

Overall I’m sort of with the Mud Hugger guy. Attach anything to your bike in those conditions without helitape and it’s going to be an issue.

All these guards cause damage unless tape applied first!

I’ve used mudhuggers on my bike as well, haven’t had any marks at all on the forks, but the rear has left 5 cable tie marks on each side of my swingarm. I just put it down to my mistake for not sufficiently taping it up.

Just noticed, you used the Velcro on the fork legs and the arch, as soon as I fitted it I binned the Velcro on the lowers and used zipties.

Mine is solid as a rock really and the Velcro allowed it to flap about – not the best application for it.

Had no packaging or instructions included, occurred in one day.

In that case, I would argue that you expected there to be minor superficial marks from use. Like most have said, it’s pretty obvious you’ll get some rubbing, but your photos are dreadful for 1 day’s use. If this level of damage is what they expect they have a responsibility to inform you.

Presumably you’re after a respray? Get a quote and send it to them. (Of course, if you bought it from a shop and not direct, then that’s who you need to talk to.)

In hindsight, I can see how it happened.
But as I have never had the problem before with the RRP or Mucky Nutz

I destroyed a mucky nutz, by not taking it off when putting the bike in the boot of the car, so this seemed better as it was more solid. however I still bent it putting it into the car (bent out again), and wanted to use the Velcro so I could take it off and on.

Looking at the forum title (SHOUT) your looking for support & outrage so you can push them into a settlement, thankfully this ain’t the US & most ppl have enough common sense to see this ‘issue’ for what it is..

Blimey that’s a lot of wear. Not used a mud hugger but several muckynutz are doing ok on my bikes.

Obviously a guard causing that much damage is not normal but if it was wobbling about whilst covered in mud then that kind of thing is to be expected TBH. Whether the wobbling is down to crap design or user error at setup is something I’ll leave to more knowledgeable people to decide.

Thats a lot of damage but looking at the guard it looks quite stiff compared to a mucky nuts so probably amplifies any small movements.

One saving grace is that it appears to only be cosmetic damage, however based on this its a product I won’t be buying.

I had a mucky nuts and didn’t like the way it was easily bent out of shape, does anyone do a flexible version made out of stiffened sillicone?

I don’t think, or expect I will get anything off them.

Yes I would like a bit of support/validation of my outrage.

Some people would expect some damage so would tape the fork first, either from previous experience, even experience by proxy of damage.

I might have expected some marking, and wouldnt have been bothered by a bit, but not to this extent.
Some people do share my shock at the level of damage, so I am not alone.

If nothing else, I hope this post/thread informs others to either use another product, or tape up first.

Where the straps attach I would expect some wear so as said above taping is a good idea but where the plastic has rubbed next to the seals that looks like a design floor to me.

Overall I’m sort of with the Mud Hugger guy. Attach anything to your bike in those conditions without helitape and it’s going to be an issue.

In which case Mud hugger should have warned buyers about the possible damage. It mat be obvious to them and many of us but it won’t be obvious to everyone.
I would have thought if a product is likely to damage your bike then full instructions or a warning should be included. It’s not really good enough to say damage is normal after the event.

Hmmm, I’ve had one on my bike for about 8 months and only took it off the other day as I was pissing about with the bike, there’s a few scratches in the lacquer but nothing like that!

That’s with a winter of peak district abuse behind it, fox paint quite soft?

I was thinking of getting one of them, not now. If he knew it would happen does it not state on it or any paperwork to protect the fork accordingly.

Fortunately I have caught it before too long, and will be just touching up with some hammerite or something, and then going back to the RRP or mucky nutz.

I ride the dark peak all the time wet winters, wet summers, I haven’t had this before, this was one wet ride, not in the dark peak.

if my usual cleaning maintenance had been followed this could have been weeks or months and really bad.

Guess I wont be selling on the forks ever though.

If the instructions don’t at least advise helitape, then I think that’s a very poor response from MudHugger.

A novice biker isn’t to know how destructive wet mud can be, and that should be the test I feel. The instructions for my Crud Road Racers even mentioned it, and they’re for road bikes.

If – being none the wiser – a mudguard had ground into the metal on my forks like that I would be raging. Especially after a response that amounts to ‘You should have known.’.

For what it’s worth I run a muckynutz guard from time to time. Never taped the fork because the guard is so light. No problems with fork damage.

My mate has had similar on his rear seatstays with a mudhugger rear guard, and me the same with a Zefal rear guard despite application of Helitape – it just wears straight through. Yes, a bit surprising and unexpected, but next winter i’ll apply something a bit more robust than helitape or put a few layers of helitape on.

Rockplough – Member
If the instructions don’t at least advise helitape, then I think that’s a very poor response from MudHugger.

A novice biker isn’t to know how destructive wet mud can be, and that should be the test I feel. The instructions for my Crud Road Racers even mentioned it, and they’re for road bikes.

If – being none the wiser – a mudguard had ground into the metal on my forks like that I would be raging. Especially after a response that amounts to ‘You should have known.’.

For what it’s worth I run a muckynutz guard from time to time. Never taped the fork because the guard is so light. No problems with fork damage.

+1.

Why do they provide frame tape for the rear guard, but not the front if they know that it’s going to be an issue? They should be providing heli tape, or warning of the risks at the very least and recommending that you provide your own protection.

Not that it helps you now, but I wonder if some cut up inner tube strategically placed could prevent this? It’s quite good at preventing things moving as well as providing a damping effect to vibrations.

I’ve used a Mucky Nutz for over a year now and apart from a bit of dulling where the paint has gained lots of very fine scratches, it is fine.

Does it state anywhere on the packaging or instructions that it came with that is may cause damage to paint, etc?

Should it really need such a warning?

you’ve bought a product to place in close rubbing contact with your precious frame/fork specifically when you intend to ride it in muddy, gritty, wet conditions…

No doubt you’ve seen the kind of damage cable outers/brake lines can do to frame finishes, most people worried about the paint on their dandyhorse buy protective patches/use a bit of tape to prevent such damage, this is basically the same thing…

Should shimano be putting labels on every inch of gear outer warning users that SP51 might scuff their paint?

cookeaa – Member

Should shimano be putting labels on every inch of gear outer warning users that SP51 might scuff their paint?

To be fair, it’s pretty ridiculous that there are no warnings about cable rub, the first time most owners find out about it is when it damages their frame.

But this seems to be a lot worse so I’m not sure it’s a good comparison.

Well on the plus side its not the stanchions

And tbh knowing how bad cable rub can be in that kind of grit I’m not that surprised

I certainly wouldn’t be getting all shitty about it with mucky nuts, lesson learned and move on

It must be me but I don’t really see that as damage to the forks. It’s the paint rubbing off, there appears to be no structural or internal damage. That’s what happens with mountain bikes. If the stantions were damaged like that then I would be seriously upset, but that’s not the case.

I would paint or tape it over if it upsets you, but to me, that’s what happens when you attach things to your bike and ride them in the mud, as the letter suggests. A bit of black electrical tape round the legs for a quick fix.