Issue 82.

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  • Issue 82.
  • trevron73
    Member

    Careful you will be deleted before you can buy a ticket to Garda ? real world riding in UK on bikes that are upgraded to the max whilst wearing a hotchpotch of the past 3 seasons clothes ? thats us ?
    mods get in touch i want to ride snowden for my 40th (10 days time ) a realistick prospect on a cheap bike upgraded to a stonker with a 17 year old Legend of a bike (i dare ya)real world biking in the uk ?

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
    Subscriber

    Most of the STW’ers I’ve met don’t have a bike collection that cost £3500, let alone a single bike.

    There are plenty on here that are dropping that sort of cash on new bikes from the threads I read. I also see a lot of people on £2k bikes (see everyone who buys a new 5)

    If I was working for a distributor I’d be sending out the best bike for review to avoid all those niggling little comments about drivetrain, forks etc.

    Premier Icon Rusty Spanner
    Subscriber

    There are plenty on here that are dropping that sort of cash on new bikes from the threads I read.

    Yes, there are a few.
    But certainly not the majority.
    Most seem to spend a hell of a lot less than that & the majority of the poverty stricken Northern monkey-people I ride with struggle to get over £1500. 🙂

    I also see a lot of people on £2k bikes (see everyone who buys a new 5)

    For their first bikes?

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
    Subscriber

    For their first proper bike yes, I was running a demo session for a mate (in Oz) and there seemed to be plenty of interest in higher end bikes & carbon stuff.
    Having been a northener (still at heart) I saw plenty of flash bikes and bike shops doing a roaring trade. Couple that with the increase in thefts and people getting payouts from insurance people still seem to be shopping for bikes in that price range.

    However if you get through to the powers that be on this one I will read with interest the review of 3 bikes sourced from the classifieds, a shop and all from the shops of germany.

    slackalice
    Member

    I have been wondering for a while now when the inverted snobbery might appear in the STW forums 😉

    It will be mildly amusing to see the STW demographic posting pics of their £25 bikes!

    I’m with mikewsmith on this.

    As for your observation on the tyre review Rusty, exactly my thoughts! I would add that following the editorial on how all wheel sizes are now effectively mainstream, and yet there are no 650b tyres reviewed! Next year.

    Premier Icon Rusty Spanner
    Subscriber

    However if you get through to the powers that be on this one I will read with interest the review of 3 bikes sourced from the classifieds, a shop and all from the shops of germany.

    I’d prefer some of the cheaper bikes from the same manufacturers that supply bikes at the mo, but each to their own. 🙂

    slackalice – Member

    I have been wondering for a while now when the inverted snobbery might appear in the STW forums

    Inverted snobbery?
    Far from it and certainly not what I said or implied in my op.
    I’ve nothing against people spending big money if they can afford it.
    But I’d like to see tests of bikes the majority of people realistically aspire to own.

    It will be mildly amusing to see the STW demographic posting pics of their £25 bikes!

    I have no idea what you’re talking about, or what relevance it has to my point. 😀

    user-removed
    Member

    After many years of nobbing about the highlands on sub £500 bikes, all second hand, I spent a grand on a Boardman Pro a few years ago. It’s had about £250 worth of upgrades / sidewaysgrades since then and I love every bit of it apart from the frame, which is nondescript and dull. Still feels like a luxury bike though.

    I only read the bike reviews in STW to make the mag last a bit longer – I have no intention of going full suss, 29er or upgrading anything major, other than the frame (maybe) and a child trailer (necessity).

    Have STW done a child seat / trailer review? Maybe closer to the target demographic…

    Premier Icon Rusty Spanner
    Subscriber

    Excellent writing, interesting articles and the photography is great.

    But the bike test features two complete bikes both of which cost over £3500 and a top spec custom build on a £1500 frame.

    Along with last issues comment that £2000 is the ‘classic first mountain bike budget’ I really wonder who you are aiming the mag at these days.
    Certainly doesn’t appear to be the majority of people who post on here.
    Most of the STW’ers I’ve met don’t have a bike collection that cost £3500, let alone a single bike.

    I know I’ve posted about this before, but it’s just getting a bit daft now.
    I don’t feel the bike review section (and by extention, the mag itself) is aimed at me or anyone I know anymore.
    Which makes me feel a bit sad, tbh.

    Add a tyre review with far more 29er tyres than 26ers, when the STW polls suggest that almost twice as many people are planning to buy a 26er than a 29er to replace their current bike and I’m even more confused.

    The clothing article was funny though.

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
    Subscriber

    I’d prefer some of the cheaper bikes from the same manufacturers that supply bikes at the mo, but each to their own.

    But when they are trying to show off the new bikes they will send the higher spec one out for demo’s to the press. I’m guessing STW reviews what they get sent.

    Premier Icon oldfart
    Subscriber

    Most of the tyres were around the 50 quid mark that’s not much less than I pay on the car !!!
    😯
    I’m starting to feel the same TBH been with the mag since day 1 , fortunate to have a few decent bikes but anything over 3 grand at the very outside is obscene . Every new issue I’m thinking of cancelling

    Premier Icon doug_basqueMTB.com
    Subscriber

    I´ve got 3 bikes in my van just now for testing. None of them will be under about 6k. I asked for the generic model, not specific components, and that´s what the manufacturers sent me. The first time it happened I called them and asked if they really wanted me riding their 2k carbon wheels and they were happy. Generally I´m doing long term tests so I´ll ask for a go on a cheaper bike so I can give an impression of the whole range better but often they don´t have one built up for test so it isn´t possible or takes ages to get. I guess the guys at singletrack have more muscle to get what they want but obviously the manufacturers want to send out their best kit.

    For me I love reading about the bling that I can never afford. I haven´t read these reviews but generally tests talk about the frame and shock, separating it from the components, so you can always spec the bike up with different components.

    Premier Icon rOcKeTdOg
    Subscriber

    I’d rather read about bikes I lust after than a £500 bike that equals what I already have, that would be boring.I know that beginners will feel differently but it’s a long time since I spent £180 on my first “ATB”

    slackalice
    Member

    For me I love reading about the bling that I can never afford. I haven´t read these reviews but generally tests talk about the frame and shock, separating it from the components, so you can always spec the bike up with different components.

    I’d rather read about bikes I lust after than a £500 bike that equals what I already have, that would be boring.I know that beginners will feel differently but it’s a long time since I spent £180 on my first “ATB”

    Agreed. It’s a little like the high end car reviews, rather learn something about the latest Italian quattroporte than the assembled in croatia four door shopping trolley.

    As to when I read the reviews, be they of bikes, tyres, gears, clothing, will depend upon their relevance to my own interests. The big hit bikes, for example, I won’t be in any hurry to learn about. The tyres however, I immediately went to (only to realise that the tests didn’t include any 650’s).

    On that point of the price points of the tyres tested, that’s what decent tyres cost! Much like car or motorbike tyres, they are the things that connect you and the machine you are controlling, to the ground. In the dry, the wet, under braking, cornering, accelerating, or whatever it is you are trying to do whilst maximising the continuation of yourself and others.

    Never scrimp on tyres! Ok, it can be argued with validity that a push bike doesn’t generate the same forces or life threatening speeds as cars or motorbikes, however, cheap push bike tyres IME are neither fun or safe in certain conditions.

    fatsimon mk2
    Member

    can’t agree with you rusty spanner I think there has been a marked upswing in the last two or three issues even when I thought that it had taken a bit of a dip back at the tail end of last year still found a article or two that i could get into.
    as far as £3000+ bikes never gonna buy one but still good to read about them and the tyre test i was hoping for some 650b tyres as that the direction iam thinking of going when i buy a new bike later this year(for the record i’ll be slapping down about £2300)

    While I don’t mind reading about latest posh bikes, I prefer to read about riding. Good article on guiding qualifications in France, I thought.

    Premier Icon cloudnine
    Subscriber

    Errrr.. won’t a 650b tyre be the same as it’s bigger or smaller counterparts.
    Shirley… A 60a minion will pretty much be the same if the tyre just over an inch bigger in diameter… And can be that much different for a 29er?

    Premier Icon chakaping
    Subscriber

    You’ve got to pay £2k to £3k (RRP) if you want a full-sus bike from a major manufacturer at a decent weight with reliable, well-performing components.

    OK there are a few exceptions to this, but it’s not a reason to pick on Singletrack really. They do review cheaper bikes sometimes and the magazine is clearly targeted at an older, and therefore more affluent, section of the population than MBUK.

    But I do think there’re far too many Santa Cruz reviewed in ST and the other bike mags. The distributor must be very enthusiastic, but it’s time to learn to say ‘thanks but no thanks’. IMO.

    Premier Icon Clink
    Subscriber

    What cloudnine said ^

    Surely a 650b can’t be that different from the 26er/29er version??

    Premier Icon Nipper99
    Subscriber

    just buy Privateer!

    Premier Icon nickc
    Subscriber

    But I’d like to see tests of bikes the majority of people realistically aspire to own.

    christ that would be dull. I know how dull, heavy £500 bikes ride, I want to know what the £5k superbikes are like 😀

    Market will always gravitate to the top spenders I’m afraid, fact of life.

    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    I read the articles on the £4000 test bikes in the same way as I watch Clarkson test driving a Bugatti. Barring a lottery win I’m never likely to own either. But some lucky sods can! So it’s all relevant.

    I know that my love of riding means I spend more on bikes than I should, and I guess other people, better paid than myself, do too. Not many people can be buying bikes like that with spare money they just happen to have lying around. I’m sure they’ll have made hefty sacrifices/worked hard to afford Something that tgey’ll get a massive personal return on. So if the tests help them with a more informed choice, good luck to ’em!

    On reading those tests though, I’ve seen plenty conclude that a sub 2 grand Specialized rides better than something where you’re paying that for a frame. Which would be food for thought if you were lucky enough to be outplaying that kind of money

    nwill1
    Member

    Interesting…I like the high end reviews, today’s £3500 bikes will be 2015’s second hand bargains, £1200 or so often under used by people with so much money they upgrade evey year (and fair play if they work hard to earn it). I’ll be looking back at the achieve to decide which bargain to pick up.

    As for spend I’ve probably spent £1400 or so over a period of four or 5 years building two very nicely speced bikes, including a mint set of 2010 36 floats i paid £250 for, I checked reviews before buying…when reviewed they were circa £650!!

    Currently looking for a 16″/17″ FS frame for trail riding, 2010 Orange 5, Blood, ST4 or Specialized Pitch, not overly fussed but reckon if I’m patient could pick one up for £3-400. Of course these bikes were all expensive new so old reviews are very useful.

    Premier Icon IdleJon
    Subscriber

    nickc – Member
    But I’d like to see tests of bikes the majority of people realistically aspire to own.

    christ that would be dull.

    That would be What MTB, surely?

    As to the cost of bikes……. On a normal weekly night ride the regulars will turn up on a variety of bikes but none would worth less than £1k, most closer to £2k. These are just our everyday bikes.

    This week a couple of new riders turned up, one on a Kona full sus (£2.5k apparently) and the other had an Orange Alpine 160 (once again over £2.5k). These were both very inexperienced riders but they were quite happy on their expensive bikes.

    Premier Icon jambalaya
    Subscriber

    We’ve been through this before, there is an aspirational aspect to this and almost every other magazine. Would you actually buy a magazine covering just £750 bikes and uk riding and if so how much would you pay for your subscription ?

    A couple of years ago I spoke to a guy who used to own a bike shop, he had plenty of stories of customers with £5k bikes and £500 cars – the bike was their priority.

    I’ve been on plenty of rides where all the bikes were £3k plus.. How much is the average bike taken on an Alps holiday ?

    I’ve built up my 2 bikes over the years but replacement with new would be £7k ?

    mindmap3
    Member

    I quite like reading reviews of high end stuff, most I can’t afford but its still interesting. That’s why I read Evo and not What Car.

    Judging by the bikes that I see out and about, there are plenty of people dropping some serious cash on bikes. I would say that I’ve built up a fairly high spec bike, but most of it has been bought in sales etc (me Easton wheels were half price). Admittedly, I’ve just bought a Banshee Rune. It’s the most expensive frame I’ve ever bought and I intend to keep it for a long time. I’m also in a position were I can afford it whilst I’m seconded to a client in London and getting paid extra for it, so it’s a treat / reward for commuting to London.

    I remember when I worked in a shop, a lot of our customers who had really expensive bikes weren’t really big earners with high paying jobs so I guess they made sacrifices to buy thir dream bike.

    Premier Icon S_J
    Subscriber

    1. Mountain bikes are expensive these days. Fact.
    2. Mountain bike components are expensive these days. Fact.
    3. Magazines can only review what manufacturers are chucking out. Fact.
    4. Nobody can decide how big mtb wheels should be. Fact.
    4. Like it or not, mountain biking has attracted a large new demographic to the sport that have significant disposable income. Unconfirmed fact, but I’m right.
    5. Perhaps there should be a sister Mag ‘built exclusively from eBay bits for under a grandworld’

    Premier Icon Rusty Spanner
    Subscriber

    Cheers for all the responses folks. 🙂

    Couple of points – I haven’t said STW should exclusively test cheaper bikes.
    But I think the balance has been skewed way too far toward the high end.

    Nor have I said that they should test bikes under £500.00, secondhand bikes, straw men or bikes built from e-bay bits.
    Just to clarify.

    Oh, and testing cheaper bikes would not turn ST into What MTB?
    That’s just an idiotic comment.

    And I’m not ‘picking on Singletrack’.
    I’ve been a reader for an awfully long time and still love the articles and the photography.

    Yes, things have changed – MTB is much more popular than it was, which attracts the status-object obsessed, along with those believe that the amount of fun you can have is directly proprtional to the amount of cash you spend.

    I’m just saying that STW should be careful it doesn’t abandon it’s core, long time readership in it’s relentless march upmarket.

    Thanks for listening!

    Premier Icon IdleJon
    Subscriber

    Rusty Spanner – Member
    Oh, and testing cheaper bikes would not turn ST into What MTB?
    That’s just an idiotic comment.

    It was an idiotic comment. And it was meant as a joke. 😉

    mtbtomo
    Member

    Its not the price of the bikes they test that I’m beginning to lose interest with, it just seems to be each issue they’re struggling for any fresh content or content that will inspire readers.

    I find myself more looking forward to the next issue of Cyclist magazine rather than STW. It seems as though the writers are all a bit more enthused about producing the magazine and some interesting content but then it is only about 10 issues old.

    And there’s just no going back to the likes of mbr, WMB or MBUK….

    My subscription is due up in the next month or so, not sure if I’ll renew. Its nice when it arrives through the letterbox, but after the first flick through, I’m unfortunately increasingly underwhelmed.

    Premier Icon Del
    Subscriber

    just buy Privateer!

    yeah, bought a copy of that a month ago to take away with me on a job that i was on for 2 weeks. it’s found it’s way in to the bog and i’m still wading through it. great pictures though. 😉

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