Is your household a tax 'giver' or 'taker' (calculator)

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  • Is your household a tax 'giver' or 'taker' (calculator)
  • spooky_b329
    Member

    Its a couple of days old so apologies if this has already been discussed.

    Just found this tax calculator on the BBC. I was gobsmacked to find that as a employed couple with no kids, household income probably a tiny bit over average, I am in the ’10th decile’ i.e. the top band. Even reducing the salary a tad to average for both of us still leaves us in the ‘9th decile’. I’m guessing as soon as I add a couple of sprogs, child benefit and schooling will bring this down substantially…

    (Perfectly happy paying tax btw, its only the longterm workshy segment that makes me feel I’m being robbed!)

    P.S. The 10th decile, does that mean from 100 people, 10 are in each decile, or is there more to it?

    Edit: I was wrong, adding two school age sprogs and halving one of our incomes to indicate a part time parent only brings it down to the 7th percentile, still a ‘giver’ in tax given/taken.

    Centiles are used in statistics to group data.
    The 10th centile (or 1st Decile) means 10 percent the data falls below your level, like wise 90th centile means 90 percent of all data is below that level.

    If you lined all the data up in size order you’d likely get a Bell curve with the median value being the peak in the middle

    spooky_b329
    Member

    Thanks Ben, so the middle decile/centiles are likely to make up most of the population i.e. working parents with kids/uni students, whilst either end is made up of the smaller number of retired/disabled/working without kids/workshy with kids

    cranberry
    Member

    Below average in the 10th Decile.

    I’ve got no kids, so I would be paying for other people’s were I doing the same job in the UK/paying UK taxes.

    so we are paying too much tax then? i would gladly spend any tax rebate on bikes to help a great industry

    gsp1984
    Member

    Is the average wage really £22k??? Is that number dragged down by all the people that just don’t bother working so earn zero? I struggle to believe it with the amount of BMWs Audis and mercs flying up and down the motorway.

    We are very much a givers 🙁

    We are a couple both on above average wages, with no kids.

    So yeah, we get mugged the harder we work.

    This is a rubbish tool

    We tried it on another forum and someone found out that everyone in the top 10% of earners, whether they earned 70,000 or 700,000, how ever many kids they had needing services, came out with exactly the same figure of 27k (approx). Putting your own figures in makes you think there is spurious accuracy. There isn’t.

    Premier Icon MSP
    Subscriber

    And it works out your take from the system in “cash to spend” type benefits, most benefits we all receive are not in that class.

    jason221
    Member

    Agree with above

    BFITH
    Member

    Load of Guff…we’re apparently in the ninth decile…I’d like to know where all my disposable income is hiding….(note to self: check sofa when i get home)…..

    nickf
    Member

    10th decile, and that’s with 2 kids in full-time education.

    5lab
    Member

    10th decile, but the OH is a teacher, so we’re probably closer to net

    Sue_W
    Member

    I’m more than happy to be a ‘tax giver’ – single person on a reasonable salary, no kids etc.

    But then I feel lucky that I am not disabled, and I am still young enough to not be subject to some of the challenges of old age. The idea that we should somehow resent being a ‘giver’ in our society is far too common. All many people seem to want to do is reduce their taxes without caring about how much harder our lives would be if we were the recipient of tax-based benefits – who amongst you would prefer to suffer from life-long disability (and therefore be a tax taker) than pay tax? I’d happily pay more tax to support the more vulnerable in our society, even when that means I go without some things.

    mrmo
    Member

    Is the average wage really £22k??? Is that number dragged down by all the people that just don’t bother working so earn zero? I struggle to believe it with the amount of BMWs Audis and mercs flying up and down the motorway.

    It is a little higher i think meadian is closer to £26k, but anyway, most of the bmws, audis etc are company lease cars so only a tax hit, there are a lot of people trying to keep up with the joneses. a lot of people have been living on credit, how many people actually own their sofas? and how many are using the buy now pay later offers?

    As for jobs have a good look and find well paying jobs outside the london bubble, also throw into the mix that employers have used the current recession to cut pay, particularly for new starters. Took me 18 months to get a new job and am £3k down on what i was before redundancy, not alot of room to negotiate anything better when the alternative is £70 a week, i am not alone in this experience.

    Not only am I bigger than average (it’s true I’ve measured) but I’m also in the 10th decile. Maybe I should change my political allegiance…

    Actually no I won’t, as the fact that I’m helping to pay for everyone else makes me even more god like.

    gsp1984
    Member

    who amongst you would prefer to suffer from life-long disability (and therefore be a tax taker) than pay tax?

    I know this is very much daily wail material, and I’m just playing devils advocate so don’t take me to seriously… But I’d be quite happy pretending to have a debilitating illness while being given £22k a year tax free and a complimentary mobility BMW X3 for my family to drive around in. Hell, I may even have time/be stupid enough to enter britains got talent, subsequently getting found out in the process.

    There is a massive amount that don’t get found out and that grossly exaggerate a disability, if any at all. The low paid people assessing them don’t give a shit, half their families are probably involved in the great swindle anyway.

    Extreme examples I know, and I appreciate there us equally as many genuine disabled people out there who’s parents didn’t drink and smoke during pregnancy.

    don simon
    Member

    Longterm workshy here, thanks for the money dude. Do they have a similar health calculator? Because all the extra biking I’m doing means I don’t visit hospitals or the doctor which means you’ll get seen and treated alot quicker to deal with the stresses and strains of worrying about your dosh.
    Why not go be a selfish twunt and have some children, it’s not like we don’t have enough mouths to feed on the planet, is it?
    Swings and roundabouts my shortsighted friend.

    Sue_W
    Member

    gsp1984 – I am going to step away from wanting to really tell you what I think of your comments.

    Surfice to say my brother was born with severe multiple disability, has spent his life enduring pain, and receives a pitiful amount of support from the state. What little he gets is being eroded even more due to budget cuts, and so the person who has least in life now gets even less.

    As for your comments about disabled people’s families and what a disabled person’s mother did during pregnancy … can’t even be arsed to validate that with a response.

    MrNutt
    Member

    I’m disgusted that you lot are leaching 12k+ off me every year and I get FA in return.

    IanMunro
    Member

    It seems a pretty rubbish calculator. Apparantly at the age of 456 with an income of £999999 I’d pay the same tax as I currently do.

    Extreme examples I know, and I appreciate there us equally as many genuine disabled people out there who’s parents didn’t drink and smoke during pregnancy.

    As for your comments about disabled people’s families and what a disabled person’s mother did during pregnancy … can’t even be arsed to validate that with a response.

    AdamW
    Member

    In 10th decile but if we were all ‘winners’ (I don’t like the idea of winners/losers) then where would all the money come from?

    There will always be some skivers, you’ll never get away from that. Minimising them is the key, but not by using a sledgehammer to crack a nut.

    I’d sooner pay far more tax than I am now than turn into a bitter Daily Mail type.

    gsp1984
    Member

    She didn’t quite get it did she… I can only assume her parents led a less than healthy life!

    I’m still joking by the way!

    spacemonkey
    Member

    Me, the missus and a little monkey = tenth decile. Nice to know this calculation deems us having the highest amount of disposable income … that’ll be without taking into account the £13k/pa we pay in childcare for 4 days a week! Yeah, we have loads of spare cash – not.

    bencooper
    Member

    First or second decile – well, that’s not a surprise, but what’s bollocks is the tax calculation. It ignores completely all the tax my (sole trader owned) business pays. We get a hell of a lot less back from the state than we pay.

    johnners
    Member

    I struggle to believe it with the amount of BMWs Audis and mercs flying up and down the motorway

    Classic availability error.

    She didn’t quite get it did she… I can only assume her parents led a less than healthy life!

    I’m still joking by the way!

    …ooh, a particularly unpleasant pre-emptive Edinburgh manoeuvre. Well done.

    Premier Icon BoardinBob
    Subscriber

    On average, people with household incomes similar to you have an annual balance of… £-27,221

    So I assume this means I’m a giver?

    don simon
    Member

    Anyone going for a ride this morning? The sun’s popping it’s cheeky little face out and I suppose the roads will be relatively quiet now that eveyone’s sat behind their desks earning my living for me.
    Thanx.

    Premier Icon kimbers
    Subscriber

    so what its saying is that a website frequented by people who will happily spend 1000s of pounds on non essential liesure items are at the higher taxed end of society with a large amount of disposable income

    Premier Icon GrahamS
    Subscriber

    It seems a pretty rubbish calculator.

    It just tells you what decile you are in and then what the average balance is for that decile.

    It would need to ask a lot more questions to give you an accurate answer for your particular circumstance.

    wrecker
    Member

    I’m 10th decile as well. I only have a lowly Peugeot for a company car but I quite like it. It swallows 3 bikes and people and drives along, I would be threaders if I was made to have a BMW or an Audi. More tax = less bikes for wrecker.
    I’m quite proud of the fact that I am a contributor. It’s a shame not everyone feels like that but hey ho.

    willard
    Member

    Damn. 10th Decile.

    I don’t know whether to feel special and happy, or royally screwed.

    spacemonkey
    Member

    On average, people with household incomes similar to you have an annual balance of… £-27,221
    So I assume this means I’m a giver?

    That’s the exact same figure I got.

    gonefishin
    Member

    I don’t know whether to feel special and happy, or royally screwed.

    Would you really prefer to be in the 1st decile? Personally I’m glad I’m in the 10th decile and am happy to be a net contributor to the country. Afterall it was taxpayers who paid for my univeristy education so it is only right and proper that I now return teh favour.

    Premier Icon GrahamS
    Subscriber

    That’s the exact same figure I got.

    Yes that is the average for households in the tenth decile (see the words to the left of the number).

    Premier Icon aracer
    Subscriber

    It ignores completely all the tax my (sole trader owned) business pays. We get a hell of a lot less back from the state than we pay.

    It also ignores all the tax the company you work for pays out of the income you’ve generated for it if you’re employed in a multi-national company. How rubbish is that?

    Do the people on here seemingly complaining about getting less back from the state than they pay really not get that there has to be a significant balance of payment to the state to pay for things like teachers, doctors etc.?

    weirdnumber
    Member

    Is the average wage really £22k??? Is that number dragged down by all the people that just don’t bother working so earn zero?

    I earn under £22k so I guess I drag the average down. Plenty of people in the country can’t get full time hours from employers and can’t work more than one job because of the need to be flexible with their existing employer. Or in fact just don’t get paid a great deal.

    Im always amused by how surprised high earners are by how little people who do work hard are paid sometimes.

    PJM1974
    Member

    A year of my tax deductions still wouldn’t pay for an MP’s duck pond. 🙁

    Or to put it another way, I could just about keep an RAF Typhoon in the air for six minutes!

    Premier Icon Rio
    Subscriber

    Do the people on here seemingly complaining about getting less back from the state than they pay really not get that there has to be a significant balance of payment to the state to pay for things like teachers, doctors etc.?

    From the BBC site:

    Benefits include both cash benefits, including the retirement pension or child benefit, and benefits in kind, which includes public spending on health and education, amongst other things

    As others have said, a very crude tool that doesn’t really tell you much.

    druidh
    Member

    6th decile here apparently.

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