i find it interesting that it’s all come to the fore now as i’ve just been talking to the partner of an armed forces member. he found he was going to get leave cancelled three months ago because of the G4S cock up.
three months……..the papers are missing something

oh yeah and I call troll on gorehound

So telling it how it is is considered trolling in your world is it?

In his defence I think he probably thought no one could be as stupid as believe what you type.
thanks for clearing up the confusion.

I mean

nobody can deny the last labour government was the worst this country has ever had.

Nobody, not one person can do this…get ready for it
I deny it

So telling it how it is

your views are opinions and quite extreme. They are not facts and they are tenuous opinions to the majority [ whether on the right or left I assume]

Other phrase you may need to get used to are Swivel eyed loon

Yours
Junkyard
socailist idiots are too brainwashed/braindead to see it.

So now the insults start flying. Really sad aren’t you.

Junky, you’re taking teh interwebz too seriously again.

Just ignore all the waffle and have a beer! 🙂

Junky, you’re taking teh interwebz too seriously again.

Just ignore all the waffle and have a beer! 🙂

also, the squaddies will get fed and have there housing supplied. And will get a bonus (LSA I think but I might be wrong the clerks used to do my admin)

Ignores flashheart and carries on

So now the insults start flying. Really sad aren’t you.

Pretty sure they started about here from you 🙄

socailist idiots are too brainwashed/braindead to see it

Sorry my mistake , that was your second post of course you first post had

The olympics is yet another fiasco left behind for someone else to sort out by an incompetant bunch of morons.

I am fairly confident. that even you would accept, that these would pass for insults.

Might I suggest if you find it rather sad you refrain from it yourself?

incompetant bunch of morons.

Talk to me about these incompetant (sic) morons, if you don’t mind…

Granted the tories aren’t much better, but nobody can deny the last labour government was the worst this country has ever had.

Oh lots of us who understand the real world can

Worse governments – many from left and right. worst of course is the Previous tory lot – the damage they did to our country may never be repaired

achievements of Labour 97 ->
Minimum wage
Working tax credits
Investing in the NHS to bring it to near EU average in terms of funding and ability – still below but not as bad as it was
Scottish devolution
Massive reductions in poverty

But of course all these things are anathema to swivel eyed right wing loons

But of course all these things are anathema to swivel eyed right wing loons

Thread just got boring. 🙁

So telling it how it is is considered trolling in your world is it?

noooooo, posting inflammatory remarks just to provoke a response is trolling in “my world” 🙂

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18856922

Whoops!

EDIT: This is Mrs Toast on Mr Toast’s laptop. Again, whoops!

from above,17 staff of g4s have turned up and frontline police ahve been brought in to do their job, bet they (police) dont like the reduction in pay and working conditions.

Its not as if the rate payers of manchester are having to fund those police officers for a total failure of management to get staff to turn up for work.

I heard that G4S could not confirm whether/when/where people would be required so even those that were offered jobs weren’t necessarily going to turn up.

Isn’t £8.50 per hour more than most squaddies get?

£17.5 k for a private so about the same for 40 hour week for the lowest rank.
So no almost no squaddie [ training only] gets that

Full pay scales here and full pension after 22 years

Doubtless there are soldiers who work a 40 hour week, but many will work far longer than that. On operations 90/100 hours per week will not be in uncommon and often for months and months on end.

junior squaddies’ hourly rate was £7.50

Technically, the military doesn’t work to an hourly rate and is exempt from minimum wage legislation but, if you wanted to look at it that way, given soldiers, sailors and airmen are liable for duty/to recall 24/7/365 for the duration they are in service, the hourly rate would be £1.99.

also, the squaddies will get fed and have there housing supplied. And will get a bonus (LSA I think but I might be wrong the clerks used to do my admin

“Housing” in a tent in a disused shopping centre, eating from a mobile field kitchen and no LSA so no “bonus”…

rat packs are all right, better than **** all. Also i have dossed down in worse places than a un-used shopping centre

I would be kicking right off. any other “deployment” (which this will be) will get extra cash. (unless they class this as a Ex)

8.50 buys you two mcdonalds meals and one coke.

OR

Pop it all on a credit card and not bother

She’s got to go – utter incompetence from Theresa May from the get go since she took up office.

Technically, the military doesn’t work to an hourly rate and is exempt from minimum wage legislation but, if you wanted to look at it that way, given soldiers, sailors and airmen are liable for duty/to recall 24/7/365 for the duration they are in service, the hourly rate would be £1.99.

well if you work my wage out to include all the time I am not working it is also massively lower.

Stood side by side at the Olympics doing the same job almost every squaddie will be on more money than a civilian counterpart and they wont have to pay for their own meals either.

Will the squaddies be armed?

if they are not i would imagine that there gats wont be too far away. (locked up in a container some where in the building/armoury)

No the Squaddies are not armed at the moment but are floating around.

Ive just got back from travelling from Beckton to Tower Gateway (Tower Hill)
return on the Docklands Light Railway and have seen plenty of the G4S recruits
and if they are security then I am glad I am not going anywhere near that place.

If one could sum them up I would say they have an IQ and appearance of a bus driver.
Just thank god we have the Army has proper security.

Very scary indeed

Yes, clearly privatised services work like a dream….(these ideological free market zealots seem incapable of learning anything.)

Ps Grantway – what’s the problem with bus drivers?

Yes, clearly privatised services work like a dream….(these ideological free market zealots seem incapable of learning anything.)

Moving to the other extreme, public ownership has proven itself to be the epitome of efficiency and credibility, not.
I wonder what the middle ground looks like?

Actually the Army are publicly owned and really very efficient. The only military inefficiencies are when they have private enterprise forced upon them either in purchasing equipment ( lowest bidder wins) or logistics ( just enough just in time ).

As demonstrated by the Olympics the goal of private enterprise is to extract as much revenue as possible for the least effort and pay as little tax as possible.

private enterprise is really a good way of providing corner shops but as it scales up it becomes anti social in supermarkets counter productive in education health and transport and positively dangerous in policing and security.

Just thank god we have the Army has proper security.

Is that because the army has never been fooled by Al-Qaeda ?

I would say they have an IQ and appearance of a bus driver.

I have no idea what IQ bus drivers have – what is it then ? And what distinguishing appearance do they have which makes them recognisable ?

rat packs are all right, better than **** all. Also i have dossed down in worse places than a un-used shopping centre

I would be kicking right off. any other “deployment” (which this will be) will get extra cash. (unless they class this as a Ex)
So have I, and I still do occasioanlly doss down in worse places, but that’s not the point… And as far as knowing what is and isn’t being given in terms of pay and allowances and how the use of troops is being classed, I have first hand knowledge…

if they are not i would imagine that there gats wont be too far away. (locked up in a container some where in the building/armoury

Their firearms will remain locked up in the armouries of their respective barracks, whether that be just down the road or over in Germany, just as with any other MAGD task (bar NI).

crankboy – Member
Actually the Army are publicly owned and really very efficient. The only military inefficiencies are when they have private enterprise forced upon them either in purchasing equipment ( lowest bidder wins) or logistics ( just enough just in time ).

What a load of rubbish, plenty of inefficiency in the army. Anyone who has had an involvement with logistics or equipment management could tell you that.

I’d like to know the halcyon period when the British soldier wasn’t given kit made by the lowest bidder meeting the specification or given kit that was more expensive but less effective to keep certain suppliers happy/ in the national interest?

What a load of rubbish, plenty of inefficiency in the army

This is the key problem of having an extreme point of view, I have seen some folks refer to the “swivel eyed loons of the right”. In my point of view this type of statement simply demonstrates that the author of said view is equally swivelled eyed in their own little world.
Of course there are inefficiencies in the forces/public sector and of course there are abuses in the private sector. The main difference for me is that in the private sector I have a choice.

This is the key problem of having an extreme point of view….

He says.

And then follows it with this amusing comment :

The main difference for me is that in the private sector I have a choice.

Your ideology might lead you to naively believe that “private sector” automatically equates with “choice”, but some people have more realistic and less extremist opinions.

And then follows it with this amusing comment :

I’m glad you find it funny ernesto.

Your ideology might lead you to naively believe that “private sector” automatically equates with “choice”, but some people have more realistic and less extremist opinions.

How many NHSs are there? Where is my choice of health care?
Where is my choice of security?
Surely in you own little world ernesto even you would find it diffucult to argue that G4S can be denied access to the next security contract and it can be put out to tender.
You don’t like Apple, get Microsoft.
You don’t like HSBC, got to the Co-Op.
Open your eyes ernesto.
Show me the wide range of public options and the lack of private choices. Competition being the backbone and all that.
Amuse me ernesto.

And equally ernesto by rejecting the middle ground, you’re demonstating the narrow minded extrmist view that I find quite basic and simply by you calling someone naive or extreme doesn’t actually make it so. Have a nice day.

Obviously you don’t see it DS because, to use your terminology, in your “own little world” you automatically equate private sector with choice. However even privatisation zealots in Tory governments have recognised that this is not necessarily so, specially in the utility sector, hence the setting up of industry regulators.

And right across the private sector one of the priorities to maximise profit is to minimise consumer choice – “monopolies” do not equate with choice, the clue is in the “mono” bit. Therefore the need for a Competition Commission, or Monopolies and Mergers Commission as it used to be called.

And since you have brought up the NHS and healthcare, I’ll remind you that the NHS and healthcare in the UK is undergoing massive fundamental changes. This is as a direct result of choices which 30 million people made in May 2010. Where there is democratic control there are choices.

And right across the private sector one of the priorities to maximise profit is to minimise consumer choice – “monopolies” do not equate with choice, the clue is in the “mono” bit. Therefore the need for a Competition Commission, or Monopolies and Mergers Commission as it used to be called.

And that’s where you’ve lost it ernesto. Where are these monopolies? A monopoly will only be allowed where a person decides to take an extreme point of view, a view that I disagree with, and buys their way into a monopolistic position. Unusual to achieve this through narmal market behaviour.
You’re fighting extremism with extremist arguments.
What choice does a poor person have in regard to healthcare? Where can a state pensioner go if not the NHS?

I’ll make it easier for you ernesto, I have a point of view that is different from you. The more you rant and try to put your own slant on what people say, the less I am likely to warm to it. I am comfortable with my opinion and am even more comfortable that different people have different opinions. Those who sit at the extreme ends of the spectrum get less of my time and those who have no more a convincing argument than call others “swivel eyed loons” are simply opening themselves up to ridicule.
Off for a bike ride now, happy marching ernesto.

What choice does a poor person have in regard to healthcare? Where can a state pensioner go if not the NHS?

Ah, now I get it………..this is obviously a wind up !

No one can possibly be suggesting, in all seriousness, that public sector provided healthcare robs poor people and state pensioners of choices.

Haha, very good…….you had me going there for a minute 😀

ernie

with the utilities, government regulation stops true competition, and with other utility sectors we have competition for the marketplace, not competition in the marketplace.

the issue is that the private sector does bring choice – the restriction preventing it from bringing this freedom is government intervention.

Bank of Dave programme the other evening wasd the perfect example – the thing preventing him from setting up his own bank was not public resistance or market domination by the big players, it was the banking regulations, hell, it was even illegal for him to use the word ‘bank’

ernie

with the utilities, government regulation stops true competition

Yep, I noticed that.

Well that’s £1.50 an hour more than we get as support staff working in a challengeing behavour house .

Not read any of the above, but my 2 pennys worth.

Why if security is such an issue (which it clearly is if we need missles dotted around the capital) was the government paying a private company to employ spotty 18 year olds who couldnt get a job at McDonalds to run the security of the Olympics.

Some thing doesnt stack up some where.