GrahamS – Member
We spent a few nights in a hotel in Shah Alam that looked onto the Masjid Sultan Salahuddin Abdul Aziz Shah (one of the largest mosques in Southeast Asia). They played the hourly prayer calls through massive speakers on the minarets so they could be heard for miles.

😆 That’s the norm or as we called it … “alarm clock”.

That is a region near the capital where they have claimed to be more religious than others … 😆

Can’t say I was a massive fan, especially with jetlag

But that’s the only reason I’d be against them in this country: the noise pollution. The world is noisy enough for me.

In that case you have no chance surviving the fanatic region of the country where competing to become more religious is the norm. i.e. my loud speakers is louder than yours! I have more people coming to my mosque.

Well they only ring the bells on a Friday evening (practice) and Sunday morning (plus the odd wedding) round here.

That’s nothing compare to the 5 times louder speaker alarm clock call to prayer … 😆

I live directly opposite a Christian church. They ring the bells every 15 minutes (presumably in case their God loses track of time and forgets to move the sun or something?)

Crikey … in a rhythmic way or simply Dong! Dong! Dong!? Do they have quality bell(s)?

They used to go on right through the night too, but a couple of years ago they sent a nice letter to all the residents saying they could fix that if we all donated money to pay for a special timer, which was terribly nice of them.

They hold you to noise ransom? Pay or else … ring my bellllllll! Ring my bell! (the song) 😆

historically people didn’t have watches so relied on clocks in public buildings

And all lovely and traditional – but do these people still need quarterly chimes, especially at 4am?

And all lovely and traditional – but do these people still need quarterly chimes, especially at 4am?

Presumably not if they were prepared to put a stop to them, they just need the money to install the mechanism.

Comparing bells pealing with the islamic call to prayer is lazy and stupid.

so we are in your areas of expertise then

They hold you to noise ransom? Pay or else …

They tried to! I don’t know if anyone paid or not but the bells overnight are now much shorter and more muffled, so they did something.

(Can you imagine a nightclub trying the same thing? “We’ll keep the noise down after midnight if you lot will pay for the soundproofing”)

Crikey … in a rhythmic way or simply Dong! Dong! Dong!?

There is probably a name for it but fairly standard thing that does a “Ding-Dong Ding-Dong” for each 15 minute period past the hour and on the hour the tune finishes with a series of Bong! to indicate the hour (Big Ben style).

Comparing bells pealing with the islamic call to prayer is lazy and stupid.

How so? Both are melodic and loud calls to prayer aren’t they? Seems a reasonable comparison to a heathen like me.

you dont mean to cause offence but you use the word spiteful?

Well, how would you describe it objectively? Probably not the best word I guess, only had two hours sleep last night so not at my best, bitter is perhaps more appropriate?

No offence was intended but it does seem quite obvious that you’re bitter about the whole thing or apsects of it when you talk about religion. I was just curious as to your thoughts on it was all.

I have no axe to grind here, religion isn’t for me beyond looking at a lot of the teachings in the same way as Aesop’s fables and bearing in mind the context in which they were set (don’t keep pork, in fact let’s just be safe and not eat it at all – you live in the desert so best case you’ll be shitting yourself silly the next day).

There is probably a name

Yes a chime, it is a clock, which happens to be installed in a Church tower, there is no religious significance to it whatsoever. To suggest it is some sort of equivalent to a call to prayer is moronic There are thousands of chiming clocks all over the country.

The church has to find the money from somewhere to change it, the people who want the change seems to be a pretty sensible first port of call.

EDIT:

How so? Both are melodic and loud calls to prayer aren’t they?

No not when you are talking about a **** clock, not the church bells which will be rung before certain services (and during practice).

To suggest it is some sort of equivalent to a call to prayer is moronic There are thousands of chiming clocks all over the country.

There’s on in my hallway.

You mean I don’t have to pray every time it chimes!

Bloody hell that’s a relief, it’s been very tiring getting up every hour all night and getting my rosary beads out 🙂

Woah chill out mefty. There are several crossing conversations happening here.

I commented on the quarterly chimes in response to mitusmonkey’s comment about his church bells only ring occasionally.

We also get the religious peals for various services, weddings, funerals etc which are the much longer and more melodic “calls to prayer” I referred to.

(And of course bell practise, which is rather less melodic 🙂 )

Yes a chime, it is a clock

I meant I’m sure there is a proper name for the particular recognisable coded sequence of strikes used to indicate the time.

The church has to find the money from somewhere to change it, the people who want the change seems to be a pretty sensible first port of call.

So as per my example, would you think it acceptable for a nightclub to ask for money from the people who want it to be quieter at night?

bitter is perhaps more appropriate?

I laughed get some sleep.

I just dislike the way we are forced [in education] to engage in some of their archaic practices and beliefs and the tolerant approach is for them to leave us alone to do as we see fit whilst they do the same.

Also worth seeing a catholic school application form , where they dont discriminate, but they do ask for a reference from your local priest.

I also find it very odd that otherwise sensible , articulate and bright folk still believe ;its like meeting a grown up who believes in santa.

I am perfectly calm, I am just having great fun pointing out the utter stupidity of your position.

Re nightclub, it depends, obviously this is quite tightly regulated, providing they are within the regulations and planning restrictions, and the neighbours are asking for more than is available through these measures then it wouldn’t be unreasonable even though they are a profit making entity. Funnily enough we had a situation like this in my neighbourhood. There is a pub which has been one of the top jazz venue in London for years. Next door, some highish end (£1 million +) apartments were developed and sold. Shortly after purchasing them. the occupants complained about the noise from the jazz and tried to get it shut down. It was resolved but I think the pub had to fork out for sound proofing. I personally think the flatholders should have as they should have known they were buying next to an established jazz venue.

Religion is about ethics and a philosophy of life. It’s quite a good description and far more likely to result in pupil engagement than RE, so overall a good thing.

Regarding Ramadan Muslims are allowed to eat and drink if not doing so would be dangerous. AFAIK that extends to people doing physical jobs so it seems to me there is an element of choice which school kids could observe. A friend of mine said the worst part of Ramadan for him was waking before dawn in order to eat a large meal, he found this very tiring.

Anyway, so Muslim school kids are at a disadvantage during Ramadan but employees are perfectly capable of carry out their duties, like Doctors, Surgeons, Dentists, police and school teachers ?

I am perfectly calm, I am just having great fun pointing out the utter stupidity of your position.

Well I’m pleased to have entertained you, though I admit I’m not entirely sure what position it is you think I have taken, hilariously stupid or otherwise.

Re nightclub, it depends, obviously this is quite tightly regulated,

Yep, noise pollution laws are fairly well regulated for licensed venues, but seem much less strict when it comes to churches or clocks.

I don’t particularly mind the church bells (or clock chimes) by the way*
I wouldn’t have bought a house by one if I did.

* well, most of the time. Patience was occasionally tested when the start of bell practise always seemed to coincide perfectly with us finally getting a restless baby to sleep, but that’s early parenthood for you 🙂

I am immune to both loudspeakers call to prayers and church bells or clock … 😆

My twopence worth as a Muslim ;

All Muslims have to fast except in certain conditions. Your sick , pregnant, travelling you don’t have to in fact for the latter two it’s forbidden. If your long term sick ie diabetic or of old age you don’t fast. In this scenario you pay a donation to feed the poor and impoverished. Everybody else who misses any fasts has to make them before the next Ramadan so basically you have a year to catch up. Muslims don’t just fast in Ramadan you can fast throughout the year these are known as optional fasts and are recommended for Mondays and Thursdays. Again these aren’t compulsory but highly recommended for health and wellbeing. So yes they were there well before 5/2 was ever heard of.

So the last Ramadan in 2015 was the longest I’ve known it since I was a child but the fact is you adapt and you learn. You learn how to manage your time and sleep. You learn that food isn’t the be all and end all. You learn which foods are good full of nutrients and you manage with less. If you have the time watch this video
https://youtu.be/9HP3g9tLAk4

enfht – Member

Comparing bells pealing with the islamic call to prayer is lazy and stupid.

Inasmuch as they’re both noisy things done by religious institutions that annoy some people… why?

Our local church stopped doing it- the old bellringers got too old and nobody else wanted the job. Thank ****.

My twopence worth as a Muslim

Coming over here, being reasonable…

Yeap, there seems to be some flexibility in observing the fast.

Isn’t there a certain irony about trying to make life during Ramadan especially easier for those who are capable/allowed to participate.
(think about it)

The Muslims I know and have discussed this issue with, give me the impression that while they know how tough it’s going to be. That they wouldn’t have it any other way.

Solo – Member

Isn’t there a certain irony about trying to make life during Ramadan especially easier for those who are capable/allowed to participate.

Not really- it won’t make the fast any easier or harder. It’s about not making the exams harder.

It’s about not making the exams harder.

Except the exams haven’t been moved after all: http://www.theguardian.com/education/2016/jan/07/summer-exams-wont-be-fitted-around-ramadan-confirm-boards

I posted this on page 5, but people may have missed it as it was the last post on the page.

Northwind – Member

Not really- it won’t make the fast any easier or harder. It’s about not making the exams harder.

Please don’t take this the wrong way, but I believe you may have missed my point.

Ramadan isn’t about the act of fasting, itself. Although fasting is a part of Ramadan.

More research wouldn’t be a waste of time, imo.

Right, I think that’s all I’ve got to say on this.
Cheers.

Plea for GCSEs to be moved from Jewish holiday.

Today’s Telegraph.

Is there much evidence that Muslim children are under performing in exams? My wife teaches at a school with a large Muslim contingent and they seem to do well in comparison to other groups.

Plea for GCSEs to be moved from Jewish holiday.

Today’s Telegraph.

It’s interesting that article still says exams have been moved for Ramadan, when they haven’t.

Is there much evidence that Muslim children are under performing in exams? My wife teaches at a school with a large Muslim contingent and they seem to do well in comparison to other groups.

No, but the exams don’t normally clash with Ramadan. This year they might under perform, because it does.

The print version isn’t sure.

It says they have in the first paragraph, but changes it’s mind later on.

Solo – Member

Please don’t take this the wrong way, but I believe you may have missed my point.

Ramadan isn’t about the act of fasting, itself. Although fasting is a part of Ramadan.

I guess I must be missing your point? Because this doesn’t make any difference to the actual discussion (though it is the fast which is causing the most concern, not other areas of observance) Moving exams isn’t about making ramadan easier as you suggest.

I thought I was living in the U.K. not Daudi Drabia.

The local community centre is now an Islamic centre and the bars removed as it might offend Muslims.

The staff room at work is now a prayer room.

Muslims at work asked not to be sent Xmas cards yet Jews and Hindus sent cards regardless of religion.

Why do we tolerate a religion that won’t tolerate non Muslims?

They have their own courts and law.

Keep all religions at home or faith centres not at work.

Why do we tolerate a religion that won’t tolerate non Muslims?

This is an odd sentiment. You think they should be more tolerant, and until they are you don’t think we should tolerate them. 😕

The local community centre is now an Islamic centre and the bars removed as it might offend Muslims.

If it is now an Islamic centre then they are not going to have a lot of use for bars are they?

Would you complain about the bars being removed if it had been turned into a nursery?

They have their own courts and law.

So do the Scottish – and what’s more the Scottish laws actually legally override the English ones (unlike Sharia laws).

GrahamS – Member

Would you complain about the bars being removed if it had been turned into a nursery?

So does the Church of England. What’s more, we even give them a say in the laws we ALL have to abide by!

Northwind – Member

GrahamS – Member
Would you complain about the bars being removed if it had been turned into a nursery?

[/quote]

Let me answer …

No, for turning bars into nursery. This can be used by everyone especially parents who needs to work from home etc …

Yes, I am deeply offended when bars are turn into religious room. This is only used by the few due to their belief and as we know they can pray from any location they want so long as they face the holy land …

🙄

I thought I was living in the U.K. not Daudi Drabia.

The local community centre is now an Islamic centre and the bars removed as it might offend Muslims.

The staff room at work is now a prayer room.

Muslims at work asked not to be sent Xmas cards yet Jews and Hindus sent cards regardless of religion.

Why do we tolerate a religion that won’t tolerate non Muslims?

They have their own courts and law.

Keep all religions at home or faith centres not at work.

You should spend less time trolling and more time riding in the wet, you’re not very good at it.

Also they need to pray five times a day so do you down tool if they wish to pray during the busiest time of the day? … In Muslamic country we down tool or face prosecution but me mates would go for a smoke or coffee instead … we like prayer time we do. Also as our public sector is 99% Muslamic, yes you get the job based on your religious belief, we learn not to ask for public service during prayer time. 😆

‘Pandering’, Hmmm…, depends how one interprets the word. Here’s an instance though…
Christmas day was on a Friday this year. What day do Muslims practice their main prayers? Is it Friday (or does Friday have a particular significance?)

They have their own courts and law.
So do the Scottish – and what’s more the Scottish laws actually legally override the English ones (unlike Sharia laws).

Poor troll or really that ignorant? Scotland is not in England – the laws don’t override English ones. English laws also don’t apply in France, USA or Saudi Arabia because they are, like Scotland, not in England.

What day do Muslims practice their main prayers? Is it Friday (or does Friday have a particular significance?

Friday is just the day that they are called to do a public prayer at midday

Its not the main prayer just the public one.

Its in the Quran and the hadith to do this.
Friday is also their “holy day”

Friday prayers tend to be the best attended, not least as its not a work day as it is their hoky day as JY says inthe same way Sunday is for Christians. As an aside its quite usual for radicalised preachers to incite violence during Friday prayers and its often a time of great tention in the Middle East. My friends in Saudi wouod frequently find their accomodation surrounded or attacked, sometimes even shot at after Friday prayers.

Poor troll or really that ignorant? Scotland is not in England – the laws don’t override English ones.

Perhaps just poor wording on my part?

As I understand it it is a little more nuanced. Scots Law and English Law are separate systems (as is Northern Ireland law) but they share common legislature. Legislation passed in the Westminster Parliament usually changes all of them (except on devolved matters, though even that could be forced).

I should probably have said something like “in Scotland Scots Law can take legal precedence when conflicting with UK-wide laws that would apply in England”. Is that any better?

The main thrust of my point however was that that although Frankenstein complains that Muslims “have their own courts and law”, they don’t have power to legally overrule UK law.

To take a deliberately extreme example, a Sharia court in the UK doesn’t get to sentence someone to death because they are still bound by UK law.

Clearer?

http://fullfact.org/law/uk_sharia_courts-39429