jonah tonto – Member
i find the union jack quiet offensive, for it has components of the english and scottish flags but over looked the welsh flag.

The Union Jack signifies the union of England, Scotland and Ireland, not Wales.

If your in the UK and not an american then it’s safe to say they are probably a fan of country music and pick ups.

In the end it’s a little sad.

Ref the stats and stripes being racist, a couple of years ago in Bath a local counceller preserved that the English St George’s flag be taken down from the local police station as ethnic minoreties could find it racially offensive. It’s a small step from that…

As for the good old girl, bet she had a fling with a texan cowboy once and still likes to rember being ridden like a wild mustang 😉

jonah tonto – Member
i find the union jack quiet offensive, for it has components of the english and scottish flags but over looked the welsh flag.
The Union Jack signifies the union of England, Scotland and Ireland, not Wales.

interesting. how come Welsh athletes have to stand under it when they win a medal then?

Because Wales was annexed by England in the 1500’s and, at that point, ceased to be a country in its own right.

Interesting that you should be “offended” but you don’t know your own history.

Now, I find this phrase racist…

African Americans

There are “African Americans”, “Native Americans” and “Hispanic Americans”, but no “European Americans”.
Why should one ethnic group, in one country, have a monopoly on the simple term “American” when it should apply to the entire population of two continents ?

Oh, and as for the flag woman, she’s probably a Line Dancer. Best avoided.

neighbour is annoying, get over it or stroke yer chin hmmn. Or live on planet Zod!

Does she wear a T-shirt like this?

or have a CB radio in her car?

neighbour is annoying, get over it or stroke yer chin hmmn. Or live on planet Zod!

Eh? Who said she was annoying? Flag doesn’t bother me, I loved the dukes of hazzard as a boy.

Unless there’s a burning cross in her back garden, I wouldn’t be too bothered about a Confederate flag.

Flag-flying of all types tends to tell you a bit about the person concerned, like the retired UKIP types who have a flagpole and a Union Flag on their lawn, but it doesn’t automatically put them in the lowest group.

It’s like saying the Swastika was devalued by a few nutters in authority

Well, it actually was. For many thousands of years it meant many things to many peoples and religions.

http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10007453

There are “African Americans”, “Native Americans” and “Hispanic Americans”, but no “European Americans”.

I’m sure I’ve heard of Italian Americans and Irish Americans

deadlydarcy – Member
Inherently, it says “I’m a redneck short of a few chromosomes. Do not try and reproduce with me.”

the best so far !

As for the good old girl, bet she had a fling with a texan cowboy once and still likes to rember being ridden like a wild mustang

Were this the case she would be much more likely to fly the ‘lone star’ state flag of Texas.

Texas was a somewhat reluctant member of the confederacy – it’s probably fair to sya that it wanted out of the Union more than it wanted in to the Confederacy.

Is the confederate flag inherently racist?

I asked the same question several years ago on an American motorcycle forum.

The response was that in some parts of the South, displaying a confederate flag even as a car sticker was an act of provocation

All down to context I think. Doing a monkey impression at the zoo to get a laugh from the kids isn’t a racist act. Doing it at a football match when a black player has the ball, is.

I’ve never thought of it a racist, more nostalgic in a Dukes of Hazard way – I’ll join the camp that think she probably just likes line dancing or something

It is a flag flown by racists…but not necessarily a racist flag

There used to be a guy who had a volvo estate car in glasgow done up like the general lee with confederate flags on it…he also had a personal reg with KKK on it so i suspect it wasnt just a shit tribute to the dukes of hazzard!

I asked the same question several years ago on an American motorcycle forum.

The response was that in some parts of the South, displaying a confederate flag even as a car sticker was an act of provocation.

I worked for a short while about 20miles outside Atlanta, GA. The ‘good ole boys’ there all had rifles crossed in the back window of their trucks in the same shape as the flag of the confederacy. I was told that:
a) this was because it was an offence to display the flag itself
b) they all had the flag tacked up as a roof lining in their trucks anyway.

I’m sure I’ve heard of Italian Americans and Irish Americans

I wasn’t trying to write an exhaustive list.
I just wondered how many generations of a family have to live in the USA before they are entitled to simply be called “American” without having attention drawn to the ethnicity of their ascendants.

Assuming Anglo Saxon is the default ethnic group for Americans, unless otherwise specified, seems more racist to me than describing a black person as black.

Is Anglo Saxon not the most common group anyway?

And there are also Americans whose families have been there for 300 odd years, as opposed to people who consider themselves Irish American who might have been there for ‘only’ 80 or 100 years.

Re the flag, it means nothing in itself. Some people have used it as a symbol for certain things. You cannot fly it without risking other people assuming that you are supporting those things. You have to be aware of what associations other people might conclude if you don’t want to be seriously misunderstood. As per the gold swastika mentioned previously. So it’s safest to just leave it.

transapp – Member
Ref the stats and stripes being racist, a couple of years ago in Bath a local counceller preserved that the English St George’s flag be taken down from the local police station as ethnic minoreties could find it racially offensive. It’s a small step from that…

I’m not sure what you mean by this – can you clarify pls?

I was told that:
a) this was because it was an offence to display the flag itself
b) they all had the flag tacked up as a roof lining in their trucks anyway.

It’s not illegal to display the confederate flag in the US. The US is not Germany, where it is illegal to display the swastika (in a non-artistic, academic, historical etc context). The confederate flag forms part of the Mississippi state flag.

I just wondered how many generations of a family have to live in the USA before they are entitled to simply be called “American” without having attention drawn to the ethnicity of their ascendants.
Assuming Anglo Saxon is the default ethnic group for Americans, unless otherwise specified, seems more racist to me than describing a black person as black.

You’ve got it backwards. “African-American” is a term adopted by African-Americans to preserve identity, not foisted upon them by whites to keep them out. (The terms used by exclusionist whites aren’t that euphemistic). The purpose is to reject the idea that “American” is a neutral identity that everyone can or should fit into, and/or to say that assimilation into supposedly neutral “American” is desirable. So when you say:

Assuming Anglo Saxon is the default ethnic group for Americans, unless otherwise specified, seems more racist to me than describing a black person as black.

that’s exactly the reason why many people don’t feel the “American” cap fits.

A similar position is also true of many others that are hyphenated Americans. It’s not a bad thing – the more fluid, subtle, nuanced and complicated identity is, the (generally) the better imho.

And the other good news is, of course, it’s not your and my job to decide what other people want to call themselves. It’s up to everyone to decide how they identify themselves.

Race is a very nuanced subject in the US but it’s a topic that many British people express strong opinions about based on ignorance and prejudice. Which is surprising, because it’s a topic that usually people are so keen to approach with an open mind… 😉

I think a lot of you need to go and read some more american history!
especially the build up to the civil war and the aftermath.
Slavery was a tiny part of what the war was about.
The confederate flag as I believe, is a symbol of their struggle against oppression for the people of the south.
They didn’t want to be dictated to by the north who they felt had a different view on life that was far too regimented and constrictive.
This I can only assume is where it receives it’s rebel connotations, this and the fact that Southerners were known by union troops as “Johnny Rebs”.

also, for those believing the north wasn’t racist, find out about a man named Quantrill and “the red legs”.

Many slaves found themselves worse off after the war too as landowners struggled to make things pay without the slave workforce.

You’ve got it backwards. “African-American” is a term adopted by African-Americans to preserve identity, not foisted upon them by whites to keep them out.

I was aware it was the preferred term used by those it applies to, which is why I find it ironic.

I’m English and I used to live in Wales with a Welsh grrl.
If I had stayed and we had had a child, I would find it offensive if that child, and that child’s descendants, were forever known as “English Welsh”.

They didn’t want to be dictated to by the north who they felt had a different view on life that was far too regimented and constrictive.

True, but the North were trying to dictate on the issue of slavery, no? So a war of principles, but a war of DIFFERENT principles on each side…

also, for those believing the north wasn’t racist

Well, in all fairness, there’s being racist and there’s being pro-slavery.. a bit different!

Molgrips, the whole south wasn’t pro slavery.
In fact most people fought for their own personal reasons.
There were many fueds and vendettas settled during the war.
For most the political unrest was a catalyst to get some revenge on someone.

I know the South wasn’t all pro slavery, hence my post. The South was fighting for self determination.

The confederate stars & bars is still part of the Mississippi state flag. Not surprisingly it’s controversial. There was a move to change it a few years back, but it was voted out by about a 2/3 majority. IIRC slavery remained on the Mississippi statute book until about the 1990s.

You could claim Barack Obama was born under the Union flag – its part of the Hawaii state flag.

I’ll get my anorak.

Swamp boy Huh?
Beauregard malitia Regiment Louisiana by any chance were you? 😉

Nope, but I do have connections down there.

I don’t believe you’re the real Yoda either, your syntax is too good. 😉

I was aware it was the preferred term used by those it applies to, which is why I find it ironic.
I’m English and I used to live in Wales with a Welsh grrl.
If I had stayed and we had had a child, I would find it offensive if that child, and that child’s descendants, were forever known as “English Welsh”.

Why is it ironic? What would be ironic (well, tragic) would be to throw off hundreds of years of oppression and then immediately abandon your identity to be subsumed into the identity of your oppressor.

If you would be offended by it, you’d have to persuade your child to identify themselves in a different way.