As far as I’m concerned, obesity itself isn’t a disease, it’s a symptom of something else be it thyroid problems, mental health problems or just general laziness and over eating.

This.

As there are several things that can lead to obesity how can the symptom not the cause be the disease?

I think people also need to understand the difference between weight and fat content. At my lightest I weighed a smidgen over 13 stone and looked positively ill for it. Like I had some sort of disease. My brother who is the same height currently weighs 11 stone something and could easily be lighter if he wanted. He looks neither ill or malnourished. When I was at my lightest he was at his ‘fattest’ which was around the same weight. He looked proper fat, I looked ill.

Body composition scales are a much better measure of your ‘weight’ than normal scales. Again, the BMI calculation is a joke. Weight/height or whatever it is is a stupid rule. So a weight lifter who has 4% body fat is obese….right….Look at where you carry extra fat rather than worrying about how many kilo’s you weigh.

Brakes has a point – its about education. In a land where cheap, plentiful but poor quality food is easily available it’s easy to see how people become obese. I’ve been to the States once (south Carolina) and was stunned at the portion size and cheapness of eating out. People see a good meal as one where the plate is stacked high, not where the quality of food is high.

Obesity is the word used to describe a result, a condition. Not the cause.

Its in the commercial interest of some parties to have Gov or Insurance funded health authorities, class excess body fat as a clinical illness for which the use of drugs may be an appropriate response.

I suspect that some people may suffer from a genetic predisposition to accumulate excessive B/F although the term excessive has a differing basis for qualification. However, the number of people who are at a truly genetic disadvantage, is extremely small.

I’m sitting next to someone right now, who is 5’7″ and 20 stones. He’s had one mild heart attach already, yet still persists in eating junk food. Draw your own conclusions in that specific case.

But, I tend to hope that if agreement on a course of action could be reached, then education would be the route to take, in order to see an end to clinical obesity and the drugs used and yet to be created to control it.
*See what I did there*

It really galls to be lectured on being a fat weak minded slob by you lot, when I go to the canteen at work for my unsweetened coffee and there are skinny people who do less exercise than me popping muffins and crisps.

Yep the lottery of life sucks. Its probably equally anoying how some people seem to be able to do maths without trying or others can draw a perfect circle freehand (and draw a horse, those are hard), some have perfect skin and other go bald early.

It just means some people have to try harder in some areas and other people try hard in other areas. Some things we just have to accept and deal with or else we just become a victim of our own circumstances.

Solo – Member

Obesity is the word used to describe a result, a condition. Not the cause.

Sure. But then, so is work related stress- a condition caused by external nonmedical circumstances, but still a medical condition in its own right. Obesity’s hardly unique in this.

But then, so is work related stress- a condition caused by external nonmedical circumstances, but still a medical condition in its own right.

Condition is not necessarily disease.

DAMN THAT WORK I NEED A PRECISE OF MY OWN THREAD

Goes for Dinner
Cous cous salad, Orange and a banana [ fruit not in couscous] and a shed load of biscuits [ carb loading for night ride whilst eating usual ish dinner]

High fructose corn syrup should be made illegal, it’s the devil’s food and is becoming ubiquitous.
Fizzy drinks, whether made with high-fructose corn syrup or artificial sweeteners should also be made illegal, they are nothing but utterly unhealthy.

Body composition scales are a much better measure of your ‘weight’ than normal scales. Again, the BMI calculation is a joke. Weight/height or whatever it is is a stupid rule. So a weight lifter who has 4% body fat is obese….right….Look at where you carry extra fat rather than worrying about how many kilo’s you weigh.

BMI is a good measure at a population level. Sure there will be some outliers but generally if you have a high BMI you will be fat. Very few people will use solely BMI to assess an individual, as a min a GP will also measure you waist as look at other pointers.

Did you and your brother ever have you body fat measured? It may be that you are the same and one of you is overweight/underweight but your minds have been conditioned to expect you to look a certain way. When that changes the results look strange. A bit like seeing someone who always wears glasses without them. They still look the same but the lack of glasses makes them look very unfamiliar and strange.

Its just my opinion, but Obesity is the result of the body accumulating too much body fat. Obvious you may say. But its when the processes that regulate body fat are either broken down or confused, that then allows the body to accumulate way more body fat than is required or even healthy.

Metabolic syndrome is the term I’ve encountered, which is used by some to describe the break down of normal body fat regulation.
Which kinda makes me think that if we’re talking about a disease, then its whatever causes a person’s metabolism to go haywire.

Can everyone claiming obesity not to be a disease please edit there posts to indicate which peer-reviewed sources they are using to make their statements?

Obesity is a disease resulting from between genetic and environmental factors

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1550413112004986

phil.w – Member

Condition is not necessarily disease.

Someone helpfully posted the definition earlier, but here’s another… I think a lot of people are working on an assumption that a disease has to have some medical cause, like an infection or genetics or similiar.

“a disorder of structure or function in a human, animal, or plant, especially one that produces specific symptoms or that affects a specific location and is not simply a direct result of physical injury

a particular quality or disposition regarded as adversely affecting a person or group of people

Origin:

Middle English (in the sense ‘lack of ease; inconvenience’): from Old French desaise ‘lack of ease’, from des- (expressing reversal) + aise ‘ease'”

High fructose corn syrup should be made illegal, it’s the devil’s food and is becoming ubiquitous.
Fizzy drinks, whether made with high-fructose corn syrup or artificial sweeteners should also be made illegal, they are nothing but utterly unhealthy.

I agree and I’ve noticed lately the increase of the inclusion in ingredients lists of Glucose fructose syrup which, for example, is listed on the packet of mini Jaffa cakes on the desk next to me.

artificial sweeteners should also be made illegal

What’s wrong with artificial sweeteners? They’re some of the most tested foodstuffs in history. They offend those that read the Guardian and make things taste sweet without loading them full of sugar. Win/win.

If you ban artificial sweeteners then more people will consume sugar. It’s a bit like banning airbags because it winds a few people when they go off.

Does every post you make have a pop at Guardian lefties?
The last few threads I have been on you are doing the same meme

I dont like sweeteners FWIW as at least sugar is natural so i try to avoid – that said I dont do much sugar either

It just means some people have to try harder in some areas and other people try hard in other areas. Some things we just have to accept and deal with or else we just become a victim of our own circumstances.

Absolutely.

If you ban artificial sweeteners then more people will consume sugar.

Hmm.. maybe, maybe not. It could be that drinking sugar free stuff all day in the belief that it’s not bad for you conditions your brain and pallette to seek out sweetness all the time, which would clearly have bad consequences.

You adapt to sweetness just as you adapt to lots of salt, you start considering it normal.

Can everyone claiming obesity not to be a disease please edit there posts to indicate which peer-reviewed sources they are using to make their statements?

Ah, that utopian world where the field of research is a fair, open and level field. I bet theres more funding [cough]GSK[/cough] provided to prove obesity is a disease than the opposite. But hey-ho, that’s just another problem with this particular ball of string.

If obesity is a disease, what’s metabolic syndrome.
I’m off.

Oh and don’t think that being classified as a diesease is going to make any difference to drug companies. They’ve been trying to make thin pills for decades.

I’m back !

Oh and don’t think that being classified as a diesease is going to make any difference to drug companies. They’ve been trying to make thin pills for decades.

Grips, you’re way smarter than that and we know it……
😐

EDIT.
Getting your thin pill onto the buying list of NICE or the FDA is a gravy train too good for any company to resist.

As others have said, obesity is the end result not a disease in itself.

An under active thyroid is the disease, obesity is the result.
Depression is the disease, over eating/comfort eating the result.

etc etc….

Medical causes for obesity are few and far between, most people simply eat too much and move too little.

Ah, that utopian world where the field of research is a fair, open and level field

I have concluded from extensive research that it is easier to make snidey comments than provide scientific evidence or data.

Ah, that utopian world where the field of research is a fair, open and level field. I bet theres more funding [cough]GSK[/cough] provided to prove obesity is a disease than the opposite. But hey-ho, that’s just another problem with this particular ball of string.

Didn’t you know all double blind placebo controlled studies are foolproof? This is science we are talking about! Fact!

*Anyone who actually believes this is living in Lala land.

Does every post you make have a pop at Guardian lefties?

Nope, less than 1% of my posts at a guess.

at least sugar is natural

Some of them are, some of them not.

It could be that drinking sugar free stuff all day in the belief that it’s not bad for you conditions your brain and pallette to seek out sweetness all the time, which would clearly have bad consequences.

Definitely an issue worth looking at! Then you enter a whole thing of weaning yourself off anythign sweet and treating them like nicotine patches. Or if they’re unharmful, cheap and plentiful, then where’s the harm?

I eat very little sugar but quite a lot of artificial sweeteners. Extremely happy with my body composition so not complaining. On balance though I wish I didn’t drink so much asparthame – given the choice…

I have concluded from extensive research that it is easier to make snidey comments

Yeap, some have turned it almost into an art, in between bans, that is.
😉

bigrich – Member
Can everyone claiming obesity not to be a disease please edit there posts to indicate which peer-reviewed sources they are using to make their statements?
Obesity is a disease resulting from between genetic and environmental factors
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1550413112004986
Po

I’ve no big axe to grind (and don’t have full text access to that paper) but it seems to imply that these effects are seen after the commencement of a high fat high carbohydrate diet (not clear what the accompanying calorific load was – boo for the abstract).
Broadly, that is the general aspect that many of those you’re arguing against feel is the modifiable factor. I imagine everyone is agreed that some individuals put on weight more easily than others

See, I’d call it a syndrome but then my credentials in the field are questionable ( 😳 )

On balance though I wish I didn’t drink so much asparthame

on balance the world might be a skinnier place if more people did

This thread needs a picture.

on balance the world might be a skinnier place if more people did

I’m not so sure. I see a lot of fat people drinking diet coke. There could be something interesting in that.. maybe not.

With all due respect, as I know you’ve bad huge problems but why on earth do you have to self-medicate

Hypothyroidism is a lot easier to measure than it is to treat. Some cases are treatable with drug A, whilst other cases will respond to a combination of drugs B and C. It can also take a long time to find a treatment that works. We are talking about a chronic condition that requires regular monitoring for the rest of your life.

I think what c_g is alluding to is that some doctors do not have the time or inclination to properly address thyroid conditions, and so just look up the “Dummy’s Guide To Thyroid Conditions” for instructions.

I’ve seen the figure of 2% of the population having a thyroid disorder. Many people are fine with the right meds. I have an uncommon type and self-medicate with drugs I buy from outside the UK. Despite a family history, I was not listened to by GPs.

I know you’ve been cagey about it in the past c-g, but I really would be interred to know the name of the drug you are having to buy, as t4 and t3 are both available on the NHS.

DrP

Dr p. forgive me but are you a real doctor?

If so. Any opinions on the herbalife products?

The reason I ask is that they are not available through retail outlets. Only distributors. Reminds me of the way Avon do things.

Cheers
Gary

I think what c_g is alluding to is that some doctors do not have the time or inclination to properly address thyroid conditions, and so just look up the “Dummy’s Guide To Thyroid Conditions” for instructions.

Yes why waste all those years of study when they can just google for answers..the internet is always right etc.

Dr P is a real doctor.

solo, do you know what ‘peer review’ means? and first hand, not some bullshit internet man in pub version?

Cheers junkyard

Sounded like he was from his post but thought it safer to ask anyway so as not to offend.

My 2p’s worth, I think we all have addictive personalities when it comes to eating / not eating.

Some go down the route of eating too much, and once your on that slope its a slippery one, some go down the route only eating certain carrots whilst standing on one leg (because thats the healthy thing to do)

The reality is probably some where in between, but in STW you have to be the one eating the carrot whilst standing on one leg (Im not convinced thats any better for you in the long run!)

Surely if people have medical reason for being over weight (ie Thyroid) then once diagnosed and treated the weight comes off?? Certainly thats what happened in my Fathers case.

Its all in the mind..

some have perfect skin and other go bald early.

Yes! What’s really unfair is if you’re slim and attractive like me, *then* all your hair falls out. Is god having a laugh? I could be cavorting with supermodels if it was down to my physique but then he makes me go slaphead and gives me eyes so crap I need some telescopes to see across the room.

I tell you what he’s getting a ruddy good punch in the chuff when I see him.

solo, do you know what ‘peer review’ means? and first hand, not some bullshit internet man in pub version?

Firstly, calm down.

Secondly, ask yourself if your time might be better spent proving me right, rather than trying to hassle me. After all, any proof you can find, that stands up to your personal scrutiny, will serve you better than anything you’ll get from me.

Yes why waste all those years of study when they can just google for answers..the internet is always right etc.

Junkyard, before this digresses too much, I’m speaking from personal experience. At the practice I attend, only one of the GPs who I have seen for my hypothyroidism has ever done anything other than throw more of the generic treatment at me.

One in three homeless people in Boston are clinically obese

Thought I’d throw that one out there for the wealthy/not wealthy protagonists.

Firstly, calm down.

he asked a question what makes you think he is not calm?

You do seem to get somewhat agitated on diet threads ..do any foods have a calming effect?