Viewing 40 posts - 41 through 80 (of 144 total)
  • Is modern Democracy fundametaly flawed?
  • ernie_lynch
    Free Member

    No you haven’t fixed it for me druidh – floating voters often agree with “my politics”.

    The clue is in the term “floating voters”.

    uselesshippy
    Free Member

    Rupert Murdoch?
    Seems to have a lot of power and influence.

    ernie_lynch
    Free Member

    Like, say, your local parish council?

    Whatever you like. White rule under Apartheid was a dictatorship. HTH

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    druidh
    Free Member

    Aye – but that’s just a lucky coincidence, wot with them not being as sophisticated as wot you are.

    deadlydarcy
    Free Member

    I think we’re mostly ok until the voting floaters start to sway election results.

    druidh
    Free Member

    Down with teh floating voters, that’s what I say

    rogg
    Free Member

    Dear god kaesae, what’re you, 14 or something? Shouldn’t you be writing some whiny poetry about that girl you’ll never **** talk to instead of this inane claptrap?

    molgrips
    Free Member

    So.. what can be done?

    ernie_lynch
    Free Member

    wot them not being as sophisticated as wot you are.

    You need to read what I post if you want to comment. Let me help you “compared to committed voters”, you know, the bit which you crossed out from my post. That includes committed Tory voters btw, in case you’re wondering.

    deadlydarcy
    Free Member

    druidh 😆

    I dunno, isn’t floaty jobbies a sign of too much/not enough something in the diet?

    Ok, forget I just said the word “diet”.

    Spin
    Free Member

    Whatever you like. White rule under Apartheid was a dictatorship

    That’s not a great example of a dictatorship. Dominant minority or minority rule would be a better definition of the system of government in apartheid South Africa.

    molgrips
    Free Member

    Stop bloody bickering, this thread was an interesting political discourse until the last few posts.

    druidh
    Free Member

    Is that a banning offence…

    …yet?

    ernie_lynch
    Free Member

    That’s not a great example of a dictatorship.

    It’s an excellent example of a dictatorship, ie, where one group dictates to the rest of society.

    CaptainFlashheart
    Free Member

    Is that a banning offence…
    …yet?

    Only if you’re on the iBan scheme.

    Spin
    Free Member

    It’s an excellent example of a dictatorship, ie, where one group dictates to the rest of society.

    I disagree as the government of apartheid SA was elected (albeit by a minority) and did not rule by decree. The fact that the majority of the population was disenfranchised does not make it a dictatorship but minority rule.

    By the definition you offer pre universal suffrage Britain was a dictatorship.

    ernie_lynch
    Free Member

    By the definition you offer pre universal suffrage Britain was a dictatorship.

    You might be starting to understand.

    deadlydarcy
    Free Member

    The modz Iron Fist rule of STW Forums could be described as a form of benign dictatorship.

    Spin
    Free Member

    It’s an excellent example of a dictatorship, ie, where one group dictates to the rest of society.

    I think I see where the confusion has arisen here.

    As I understand it when we talk of a dictatorship being a ‘group’ it doesn’t mean a societal or ethnic group like whites in SA or men in pre-suffrage Britain. It refers to a governmental group such as the Soviet Politburo.

    loum
    Free Member

    Is our democracy flawed?

    This depends entirely on the purpose of it.
    If it’s to represent the people of the country in the control of their destiny, then yes probably.
    If it’s to appease the majority whilst preventing serious change and enabling minority rule, then it’s very effective.
    IMO, it’s more an instrument for stability than representation.
    When was the last time we had a Government representing the majority of the voters, let alone the majority of the population?
    The problem, for me , is that it’s never in the interests of the ruling party (s) to change the system to make it more representative.

    That said, I’ll keep voting ‘cos it’s the only system we’ve got and it could be a lot worse.

    Spin
    Free Member

    You might be starting to understand.

    I see. It was your own definition of dictatorship you were using and not just that you didn’t understand the common definition of the word.

    ernie_lynch
    Free Member

    It was your own definition of dictatorship

    Yours too surely. I feel certain that you wouldn’t claim Britain before all adults had a vote was a democracy.

    druidh
    Free Member

    Surely the floating voters actually understand politics more than the “committed voters” as they actually consider what they’re voting for and not just what colour of rosette the nice man/woman on the telly/at the door was wearing.

    Spin
    Free Member

    Yours too surely. I feel certain that you wouldn’t claim Britain before all adults had a vote was a democracy.

    There are all sorts of shades of grey between democracy and dictatorship and the absence of universal suffrage does not make a country a dictatorship but rather some form of partial democracy.

    If you want a label for pre suffrage Britain then perhaps patriarchy would do.

    druidh
    Free Member

    Won’t someone think of the children?

    What do you call it when only adults are allowed to vote?

    ernie_lynch
    Free Member

    Surely the floating voters actually understand politics more than the “committed voters” as they actually consider what they’re voting for and not just what colour of rosette the nice man/woman on the telly/at the door was wearing.

    Well that’s not my opinion based on my experience, obviously yours is different, and I can see by the way you keep returning to the subject that this seems to bother you 🙂

    Yep, for me people who have some political commitment, including Tory voters/supporters, generally have a greater interest and understanding of politics, compared to those who regularly change their opinions based on what they have just read or how some individual preformed on the telly the night before.

    Spin
    Free Member

    Won’t someone think of the children?

    Big Eck is.

    Spin
    Free Member

    IMO, it’s more an instrument for stability than representation.

    This is a good point. I think stability is more important that representation.

    crikey
    Free Member

    Yep, for me people who have some political commitment, including Tory voters/supporters, generally have a greater interest and understanding of politics, compared to those who regularly change their opinions based on what they have just read or how some individual has preformed on the telly the night before.

    ..yet still vote for the same political party.

    Which typifies politics in the UK, and means that no real change will ever occur. The current ‘We are the blue side of the coin, who you voted in when you got fed up of the red side of the same coin’ is a perfect example.

    ernie_lynch
    Free Member

    yet still vote for the same political party.

    Yes, the floating voter simply tips the scale in favour of one of the two maim parties, that’s all. Which is why they are so important to the two main parties, even though they might be small in number.

    RealMan
    Free Member

    I don’t see why turning 18 qualifies anyone to vote. I didn’t understand or care about politics the day before my 18th, and I didn’t understand or care the day after.

    People complain all the time about stuff the government does. But it’s probably a really really hard job, and they’re doing their best (most of the time). I don’t think I could do any better.

    You put one party in, some things get slightly better, and some things get slightly worse. Doesn’t really seem to matter which.

    Maybe this is a bit simplified, but like I said, I don’t really care that much. I think even if I could vote via the computer or phone or something in a matter of seconds I still wouldn’t.

    alex222
    Free Member

    Is modern Democracy fundametaly flawed?

    Yes

    Is it even a democracy?

    Not really.

    crikey
    Free Member

    I’ve been struggling to remember a quote from Clive James, of all people, the TV critic. He was commenting on apartheid in SA and said something along the lines of ‘The longer this situation goes on, the more likely it is that the inevitable revolution will be led by fanatics instead of moderates’.

    The gist of it remains true in that the longer a compromised and essentially English ruling political elite are allowed to stage manage and direct a political system which benifits them above all else, the more likely that when a change comes it will be led by people who will move us as far away from that system as they can.

    imnotverygood
    Full Member

    Who killed Plato?

    Spin
    Free Member

    The gist of it remains true in that the longer a compromised and essentially English ruling political elite are allowed to stage manage and direct a political system which benifits them above all else, the more likely that when a change comes it will be led by people who will move us as far away from that system as they can.

    I’m not sure what you are suggesting here? That we’re heading for a revolution?

    The white leaders in SA were largely of Dutch extraction not english (althought they played their part).

    Clive James’ quote was true of SA at that time and probably not intended as a generalisation on what you call ‘english’ political systems.

    buzz-lightyear
    Free Member

    Churchill misquote: “Democracy is the worst system of government, apart from all the others”

    nick1962
    Free Member

    “Is modern democracy fundamentally flawed?”

    Easy-yes.
    1)AFAIK in ancient Athenian democracy only the generals were appointed on merit.Other governement positions were drawn by lot wiping out the self serving political classes.
    2)Democracy is flawed because it allowed people like Hitler to get power quite legally.Did the millions of executed German Jews ,Communists,disidents trade unionists,gypsies etc get the governemnt they deserved?
    I think not

    CountZero
    Full Member

    ernie_lynch – Member
    So who is the individual running Britain then if we are a dictatorship?
    A dictatorship doesn’t have to be an individual.

    The obvious example is a junta.
    I think it’s the Illuminati.

    yunki
    Free Member

    eton mafia innit

    CountZero
    Full Member

    eton mafia innit

    Nah, most of ’em are Scottish. Glasgae mafia?

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