Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 49 total)
  • Is lockdown over? What officially do you think you can or cannot do?
  • Premier Icon 5plusn8
    Free Member

    As title, I am confused, genuinely.
    What do you think the rules are?
    I am asking as some employees have asked and we want to make sure we are abiding by the rules and do not want anyone to be coerced into working when they feel its either too risky, or is not allowed. I need to present to the rest of the board and as it is I have researched and written a set of guidelines that are utterly contradictory.
    So I am not asking you to do my homework, more just seeking counsel..

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Full Member

    Good luck…

    Premier Icon scotroutes
    Full Member

    We never had “lockdown”. We’ve had various restrictions placed upon our movements and interactions. These have been removed in various stages as monitoring, testing and tracing has been introduced and as number of infections and deaths has decreased.

    FWIW, I get all my guidance from scot.gov.uk, where all the laws, rules and guidance are published and updated. I’m guessing that you are in England and I would expect the UK Government has a similar library of documents.

    Premier Icon RicB
    Full Member

    Maintain 2m social distancing

    Some broad suggestions (I work in a hospital so rules will be different):

    If you can’t, wear a mask and or visor (mask better IMO) and still need to be 1m apart

    Wipe desks, phones commonly touched items like door handkes etc twice daily with some sort of cliniwipe/disinfectant wipes

    Consider staggering breaks etc to minimise numbers in staff rooms/canteens

    Consider one way systems to minimise close contact

    Consider having separate clothes for work and commuting to/from work

    For governance purposes it’s worth having clear pictures/diagrams of what to wear, where to go etc so no one gets confused.

    Premier Icon ElShalimo
    Free Member

    It’s more important now than ever before to not covet your neighbours’ ox

    Premier Icon 5plusn8
    Free Member

    I’m guessing that you are in England and I would expect the UK Government has a similar library of documents.

    Ha ha. You guys love to rub it in, wait until the Kremlin take over your govt.

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Full Member

    Whatever Michael Gove does, that’s what’s allowed.

    Premier Icon DezB
    Full Member

    Lockdown’s over but in just over a week’s time we have to wear masks in shops cos obviously that’s when the second wave is due. Er…in the shops. And we need to stop it spreading in erm, August.
    It’s like, er, blinking obvious innit.

    Premier Icon FunkyDunc
    Free Member

    Look at it from a risk perspective too, not just guidelines.

    The big risk now for any organisation is track and trace.

    If an employee gets Covid then your place of work could be shut down overnight.

    However if you can confirm that everyone was distanced, wearing masks etc etc then there is less chance of being closed down

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Full Member

    If an employee gets Covid then your place of work could be shut down overnight.

    This time without any financial help.

    Good luck…

    Premier Icon MoreCashThanDash
    Full Member

    We never had “lockdown”. We’ve had various restrictions placed upon our movements and interactions

    A keep point that keeps getting overlooked.

    The government website has all the rules. Your trade body may have more specific advice.

    Do not ask on social media. Read the official guidance, nothing else matters.

    Premier Icon maccruiskeen
    Full Member

    I’m guessing that you are in England and I would expect the UK Government has a similar library of documents.

    The HSE is probably a smart place to look – they give clear advice not only on Covid specifically but also on unexpected side issues such as Legionella being a risk as workforces return to buildings that have been empty for months. They’ll also be the ones who come to bite you if you cock it up 🙂 Sign up for their updates and you’ll get info every week

    Depending on what sector you work in – see what advice trade bodies or similar are giving. I work in film and various industry bodies have broken down the regulations and issued guidance in ways that apply to the industry as a whole and also  by specialism and task. Industry training bodies are offering free online  training and accreditation for individuals too so at the start of each job I’m getting clearly briefed on the protocols by the production but I’m also able to provide them with certification that I’m up to speed with legislation and practice and that I know where to look to keep myself up to date with new announcements

    Premier Icon footflaps
    Full Member

    It’s more important now than ever before to not covet your neighbours’ ox

    Unless it’s located in a small Northern castle, in which case it’s fine……

    Premier Icon chakaping
    Full Member

    I need to present to the rest of the board and as it is I have researched and written a set of guidelines that are utterly contradictory.

    *waves at Boris*

    Premier Icon Cougar
    Full Member

    Beat me to it, I was about to suggest a career in government.

    Premier Icon 5plusn8
    Free Member

    In my defence
    a) I am aware that my draft rules suck
    b) I wrote them using HSE and Govt Guidance
    c) I am not going to present them to the board with such gaping flaws.

    Premier Icon squirrelking
    Free Member

    Consider having separate clothes for work and commuting to/from work

    Never understood why this wasn’t already a thing for medical staff or carers. IIRC someone on here got rather stroppy before this all kicked off when it was suggested it wasn’t hygienic to wear medical gear in public.

    Premier Icon captainclunkz
    Free Member

    If Dominic Cummings can do whatever he wants, then so can I.

    Premier Icon ads678
    Full Member

    “Dave, we’d like you to make a presentation to the board about how we move forward as a business following the relaxation of pandemic guidelines.”

    “Ok boss, I’ll just go and ask on this bike forum I know,  what they think we should do…..”

    🙄 you can see why some people get paid the big bucks can’t you!!

    Premier Icon speccyguy
    Free Member

    The best piece of advice on here seems to be to document procedures in such a way that if an employee gets ill you can reasonably justify that none of their colleagues will also need to isolate.

    Not something you’ll find written explicitly in government documentation but something that they’ve no doubt thought of themselves when doing what they do best (arse covering)

    Premier Icon seosamh77
    Full Member

    Basically, going forward use your common sense. If a situation feels dodgy, it probably is.

    Premier Icon matt_outandabout
    Full Member

    I’m allowed to go for a beer, walk in the woods, see my un-taxed and non-planning permission second home while on the way to an eye test, no?

    Premier Icon CountZero
    Full Member

    Well, next week is my birthday, but going out for a meal with friends is sadly out of the question.
    I can, at least, go out for a beer with a mate, I have a table booked for two at the same time on Friday and Saturday evenings at the same time, which is something.

    Premier Icon kerley
    Free Member

    While you can use common sense personally a workplace, especially is directing people to return to work, is another matter. You can imagine how this would go.

    Company tells employees they can return to work as all processes in place. Somebody goes to work carrying virus (maybe not knowing it) and spreads it around the workplace. One of the people who contracted cover from the workplace dies as a direct result of going to the workplace. What would happen then, is the company covered as they have followed government advice?

    There haven’t been any? scenarios before where being asked to go to a workplace could actually end up killing you.

    Premier Icon Kryton57
    Full Member

    If Dominic Cummings can do whatever he wants, then so can I.

    ”Who’s more of a fool, the Fool, or the fool that follows him”?

    obi Wan, circa 197… something.

    Premier Icon Kryton57
    Full Member

    Here my rules I’m following:

    Work from home, because I am able to and should

    observe 2m social distancing everywhere

    If in shops or using shared transport of any kind wear a mask

    quarantine parcels & letters for 72 hours; wipe them down with a dettol wipe during the opening process

    any interaction with an object outside of my house or handled/touch by a stranger, or merely entering the house after being outside results in hand washing with cared antibacterial

    Premier Icon MoreCashThanDash
    Full Member

    What would happen then, is the company covered as they have followed government advice?

    Of course. You have to be negligent to be successfully sued for something. Show you’ve followed the rules, and any subsequent problem is covered by the legal term “shit happens”

    Premier Icon 5plusn8
    Free Member

    ads678
    Subscriber
    “Dave, we’d like you to make a presentation to the board about how we move forward as a business following the relaxation of pandemic guidelines.”

    “Ok boss, I’ll just go and ask on this bike forum I know, what they think we should do…..”

    🙄 you can see why some people get paid the big bucks can’t you!!

    What’s up? Jealous? Sort out your reading & comprehension and maybe you can move up the ladder too.

    Premier Icon 5plusn8
    Free Member

    Of course. You have to be negligent to be successfully sued for something. Show you’ve followed the rules, and any subsequent problem is covered by the legal term “shit happens”

    My motivation here is to convince some of the older board members that we really don’t need to force everyone back to the office, when actually they have done a great job working at home.
    They are saying ” lockdown is over get the shirkers back in pronto”..

    Premier Icon martinhutch
    Full Member

    The most likely scenario is that one of your employees tests positive, which will happen (probably on multiple occasions over the next year). What do you need to do to make sure that your entire firm doesn’t have to shut down at that point? The logistics of how you arrange the workplace in terms of distancing, flows of people, size of teams, shared facilities, cleaning, ventilation etc will dictate how many people you can get back in safely on any single day.

    Other factors are out of your hands – when the schools are back in September, expect regular childcare issues as they are forced to send home classes in response to positive tests.

    The traditional ‘bums on seats’ mentality for office work isn’t going to cut it unless you are very lucky. Maximising flexibility so you can respond to changing circumstances is the way forward.

    Premier Icon 5plusn8
    Free Member

    Yeah this is what concerns me too, as others have said. I prefer keeping everyone at home as much as possible.

    Premier Icon lunge
    Full Member

    My rules are:
    Work from home, though I’d prefer to be in the office…
    Exercise outside as much as I want.
    Meet others outside, no idea what the max official number of people of households is, but I don’t have any social groups of more than 6 people so that’s the max I’m working to.
    Mask on public transport and in the shops if needed.
    Keep at least a metre from others, ideally 2.
    Wash my hands regularly.

    Premier Icon mattyfez
    Free Member

    Even if you have reduced capacity in the workspace, Toilet logistics might be a big factor, increased cleaning, no more than one person to the bathroom at all times etc.

    Premier Icon rugbydick
    Full Member

    The HSE is a good source of info / risk assessment / control measures, as has already been stated.

    It’s also worth bearing in mind that COVID is a reportable disease under RIDDOR now too. If anyone contracts or dies from COVID, and the exposure is likely to have been due to work activities, then it’s reportable under RIDDOR.

    Premier Icon 5plusn8
    Free Member

    How many employees do you need before a full time HSSE person becomes a necessity?

    Premier Icon andybrad
    Full Member

    Ill be honest, my approach is.

    wfh for as long as possible. its horrible. i hate it.

    exercise whenever wherever.

    try and keep people away.

    over the last week we have tried to see friends both on and off the bikes at a distance. we appear to be the only ones trying to keep a social distance.

    Premier Icon thestabiliser
    Free Member

    You’re required to have access to competent h&s advice, whether that’s getting one of your team qualified, a consultant or a dedicated advisor will depend on the size of the business, the risk inherent in the work and the situation.

    Your board members need to understand that they’re committing an offence and hence exposed criminal and civil action, to put people to work without a safe system of work in place. One of the easiest ways to eliminate the risk to an employee of exposure to covid in the workplace is for them to work from home if they can.

    I’ll pm you my invoice

    Premier Icon reluctantjumper
    Full Member

    Consider having separate clothes for work and commuting to/from work

    Never understood why this wasn’t already a thing for medical staff or carers. IIRC someone on here got rather stroppy before this all kicked off when it was suggested it wasn’t hygienic to wear medical gear in public.

    Hospitals used to have on-site launderettes for this exact purpose, staff would wear normal clothes into and away from work and change into uniform there. At the end of the shift you’d put the uniform ina bag with your name on it and it would be washed within a few days and delivered to your department. Stopped years and years ago (2004/5 maybe?) as my then-girlfriend was a nurse and it went from household bliss to sodding uniforms everywhere hanging up to dry overnight!

    Premier Icon cookeaa
    Full Member

    I can only relay what both my and my wife’s employers have implemented.

    I work in a large open plan office which is not Ideal for social distancing so at the tail end of May we decided to re-open with one desk per-row of four, no desks allowed opposite one another or back to back, my nearest colleague is at least 5m from me at all times.

    We’ve turned a few meeting rooms into ad-hoc office spaces, which are first refusal reserved for people who have an identified increased risk factor (Asthma, pre-existing heart conditions, etc).

    We extended office opening hours and carved the day up into three ‘Slots’ you can book a morning (7:00-12:30) Afternoon (13:00-17:30) and Evening (18:00-23:00) and we have a single ‘administrator’ of this Hot-desk booking system for the office, everyone has email access and can do at least some of their work from home as well as make contact to book slots (ideally a week in advance but our admin is very helpful and accommodating and frequently helps sort people out with less than 12hrs notice).

    There are desk cleaning supplies (disinfectant sprays) in every office and everyone is responsible for cleaning down their desk at the beginning and end of their slot, and hand gel by every entry to the building and by every sign in sheet, you are expected to use these frequently throughout the day.

    There is a sign in/out sheet so we know who was in what area when (in case of a future requirement to “Track and trace”).

    We were provided with a list of the arrangements before any of us attended the office, spoken to by our Line managers (by phone/skype) to discuss if we were happy to come back in, and it was made clear that “No” was a perfectly acceptable answer. Most importantly only those of us with a genuine business need to come in have been asked, if people can work from home the company would rather support them in doing that.

    So we are at ~20% office desk-space capacity with an extra 30% opening hours.

    We have discussed opening further desks up, it’s been agreed that full height, 2m height dividers would need to be installed both for desks facing one another and for adjacent desks, so far this hasn’t been undertaken as we are managing with our limited office space and wider WFH.

    I’ll be honest, I’m quite pleased with my employers they’ve been open, honest, treated us like adults, asked for input and trusted us to behave appropriately. So far we’ve been working like this for almost 2 months and had no known CV19 exposures (touch wood).

    My wife works for the local authority and has been WFH since late March. They have daily Teams meetings and were recently told that they won’t be expected back in until at least late October (and then only if ‘Safe’) as the best prevention of spread is still social separation. They have similarly open plan offices but already had assigned laptops so WFH was relatively straight forwards.

    From your perspective OP I’d take a bit of an ‘ERICPD’ type approach and actually carry out risk assessments for each work area/space/team you might want to reopen, remembering that keeping it shut down is always an option. Treating contact between personnel as the primary risk; Elimination is the ideal solution (WFH) but where that’s not possible look at a hierarchy of mitigations to limit the risk posed to Staff. Make sure your presentation includes the term “Duty of Care” just to reinforce that point to your directors…

    You asked if lockdown was over OP, for many it was never on. What you really need to ask is whether or not the risk of CV19 spread risk is still present? I believe it is and I believe due to muddled guidance and information as well as the generally nice weather people are practicing less and less of the social separation principles outside of their work/home environments, and that is a significant risk factor which you cannot control. all you can do is try to limit the risk your employees face when they are at work.

    Premier Icon 5plusn8
    Free Member

    Interesting viewpoint from all thanks for your contrubution to my sanity.
    FYI, we are all still working from home, bar me and a couple of other directors who come in periodically and call each other across the office to save sharing our breath. (Well we have a detailed return to office protocol, but it boils down to this)
    I presented all my evidence, we then had it reviewed by our part time HSSE contractor bloke who concluded that he wasn’t sure either and we should all stay working from home unless necc.
    Win.

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