Viewing 40 posts - 81 through 120 (of 153 total)
  • Is it me. Discipline on club runs?
  • dragon
    Free Member

    The riding in the OPs vid is awful, someone should send them on a lesson on group riding.

    xiphon
    Free Member

    I’ve witnessed many appalling group riding skills while out and about on both 2 and 4 wheels.

    Really doesn’t encourage me to join any of them!

    richmtb
    Full Member

    The OP video guy has footage from him at Glentress. That’s probably the funniest of all the ones he’s uploaded…

    Aye he is making hard work of Pennels Vennel that for sure.

    I think he is the wronged party more often than not in those videos though. His “AAAARRARRARGGHH” is quite funny though!

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    Goz
    Free Member

    From what I’ve seen of group riding on the road it’s generally pretty good.
    However I’ve seen some groups out, all over the road, riding 3 abreast, not good.
    The trouble is a lot of new riders don’t join a club and serve an apprenticeship on club runs, how to ride closely and safely, through and off etc.
    Their first experience of group riding is on a sportive and apart from a few most riders havnt got a clue how to ride in a group.
    When I started club riding in the late 70’s it was drilled into us how to ride in a group and how to look after each other and keep the group together.
    On our club training rides we had riders of various abilities, national and divisional champions, ex peace race and sealink riders so we learnt from the best…. Those were the days!!

    clubber
    Free Member

    On the other hand, those were also the days of many road clubs that were populated by miserable gits whose only claim to anything was that they’d ridden a long time and seemed to think that meant you had to listen to them even if they really didn’t have much to offer.

    Swings and roundabouts…

    aracer
    Free Member

    So have I understood you correctly that you think he should have not overtaken the other cyclist (which would have required him to brake) in order to allow the driver to overtake him? Is that because the driver has more right to the road?

    nealglover
    Free Member

    So have I understood you correctly that you think he should have not overtaken the other cyclist (which would have required him to brake) in order to allow the driver to overtake him? Is that because the driver has more right to the road?

    Do you overtake on motorways by simply pulling out and making faster moving cars brake to avoid you ?

    Or do you brake yourself and wait till there is a gap to pull into.

    xiphon
    Free Member

    You should only pull out to overtake when it is safe to do so…. fairly common sense?

    from the OP’s video, it just looks like arrogance “I’m a cyclist, so I have right of way”

    BoardinBob
    Full Member

    So have I understood you correctly that you think he should have not overtaken the other cyclist (which would have required him to brake) in order to allow the driver to overtake him? Is that because the driver has more right to the road?

    No, what I’m saying is he either

    a) Didn’t look round properly and therefore didn’t see the car

    or

    b) He did see the car but decided he was pulling out anyway (a common theme in his videos and his attitude seems to be playing drivers at their own game)

    Either way, it’s his mistake yet he berates the driver for sounding their horn.

    He seems very keen to ascert his rights as a cyclist, and quite rightly so, but his attitude does seem to be “I want to ride on this space and you must get out my way”. Put it this way, if you were crossing the road as a pedestrian, you saw a car coming and it would be on top of you in less than a couple of seconds, you wouldn’t just step out in front of it and expect it to stop, but that appears to be his approach to cycling.

    mrmo
    Free Member

    haven’t bothered* to watch the video so don’t know, but how much room had the car given the first cyclist?

    If the car driver was obeying the Highway code there is plenty of room for a cyclist to over take a cyclist.

    *workplace firewall blocks it.

    njee20
    Free Member

    warn of presence/alert incase you are veering towards someone etc etc.

    So what’s your excuse, because you said you used it once you had passed the cyclists?

    doubledunter
    Free Member

    Right or wrong Im surprised he’s not had a hefty kicking yet 😕

    BoardinBob
    Full Member

    haven’t bothered* to watch the video so don’t know, but how much room had the car given the first cyclist?

    No it’s a cyclist overtaking a cyclist and the car’s behind both of them. I live about 30 seconds away from where it happened. It used to be a dual carriageway but now it’s single carriage way with a cycle lane taking up about 1/3 of what was the inside lane, a lane for traffic and then a chevroned section between the traffic lane and the centre line/ reservation. Car would have had to swerve into chevroned section of the road to perform the overtake in order to have given the guy filming enough safe room. Cyclist moved from cycle lane into traffic lane

    lemonysam
    Free Member

    b) He did see the car but decided he was pulling out anyway (a common theme in his videos and his attitude seems to be playing drivers at their own game)

    Well if there was a two second gap – which would fit in with the 1.5 seconds until the horn sounded mentioned previously – then that’s a 35m gap at 40mph. Personally i’d consider that big enough to safely pull out into.

    BoardinBob
    Full Member

    Personally i’d consider that big enough to safely pull out into.

    Except it wasn’t, hence why the driver sounded the horn. I’d also assume they had to brake

    aracer
    Free Member

    Except it wasn’t, hence why the driver sounded the horn. I’d also assume they had to brake

    Apparently you’re psychic. Because your argument appears to be that the cyclist must have done something bad because the driver sounded his horn – the only evidence you have to dismiss the scenario that the cyclist pulled into a large enough gap is the use of the horn. So it appears you know that the driver didn’t use the horn just because he was an arse. Oh, and presumably you also know that the driver wasn’t speeding.

    FWIW I reckon there’s a good 2s between him pulling out and the use of the horn, and as mentioned that makes it more than a 2s gap. Given the mention of the motorway up there, I reckon most people would pull out into a 2s gap on the motorway (that’s certainly my experience of what happens in front of me when I leave such a gap).

    You reckon the driver had to brake? Well you appear to be quite happy for the cyclist to brake – is the difference that the driver has more right to the road?

    Car would have had to swerve into chevroned section of the road to perform the overtake in order to have given the guy filming enough safe room.

    Swerve? Would that be due to lack of anticipation? Presumably you’re referring to the area of chevrons bordered by a broken white line. Why shouldn’t the driver use that to overtake?

    Cyclist moved from cycle lane into traffic lane

    Cyclists are traffic. “Cycle lane” is also advisory in this case, hence has no particular legal status at all – not only are cyclists not required to use it, but in this instance “traffic” is allowed to use it.

    Put it this way, if you were crossing the road as a pedestrian, you saw a car coming and it would be on top of you in less than a couple of seconds, you wouldn’t just step out in front of it and expect it to stop, but that appears to be his approach to cycling.

    For that, sir, you get one of these:

    BoardinBob
    Full Member

    You can defend him as much as you want. I think he’s a prick and a horrendous advocate for cycling that appears to be hell bent on confrontation. Its amazing how I manage to cycle 99% of the same roads he cycles, yet I manage to do it without a constant stream of near misses and confrontations with drivers…

    aracer
    Free Member

    I think he’s a prick and a horrendous advocate for cycling that appears to be hell bent on confrontation.

    You are entitled to your opinion. I note you’re not defending yourself against my arguments.

    Note I’m not suggesting he is perfect – I actually started off criticising the riding in the first post (and interestingly using the same point to defend the driver in that as I’m using to defend him in your video), I agree with the comments about the second video posted (of the car pulling into a gap well after overtaking him), he’s a total arse in the one where the lorry toots him and I found a couple of others where he could have avoided the situation better. However I don’t believe he did anything wrong in your video, and your comments about that have at least a hint of “car is king”, even though I’m sure that’s not your conscious intention. There are also several other videos where he encounters poor driving where not only is he in no way at fault, but it would have been hard to avoid the situation without being psychic. Maybe he rides more than you (on those particular roads), maybe at different times of day, maybe he’s just unlucky.

    IanW
    Free Member

    I really wish we could have a short PI film telling motorist and cyclists that riding two abreast is ok,

    nealglover
    Free Member

    You reckon the driver had to brake?

    I do yes.

    Well you appear to be quite happy for the cyclist to brake

    I am yes

    – is the difference that the driver has more right to the road?

    No.

    The difference is that the cyclist changed road position and pulled out into the path of the car.

    weeksy
    Full Member

    IanW – Member

    I really wish we could have a short PI film telling motorist and cyclists that riding two abreast is ok,

    There’s a difference between it being OK and being a good idea though ?

    Being assertive, aggressive, dominant, whatever you want to call it… on a pushbike on the roads may be all well and good. but cars are very hard objects and the floor is made of tarmac. there’s only 1 person who’s going to lose out long term.

    TiRed
    Full Member

    Indeed. 2×4 is easier and safer to pass than 1×8 on anything less than a country lane. You will need to go wider and are less likely to just squeeze past, but the overtake is shorter. And if properly organized, a 2×4 isn’t much wider than a solo rider taking the primary position.

    aracer
    Free Member

    The difference is that the cyclist changed road position and pulled out into the path of the car.

    So the correct thing for him to have done would have been to piss all the car drivers off by sitting to the right of the cycle lane a lot earlier?

    BoardinBob
    Full Member

    So the correct thing for him to have done would have been to piss all the car drivers off by sitting to the right of the cycle lane a lot earlier?

    No, the correct thing to do is wait for an appropriate gap to pull out.

    Edit: This

    I note you’re not defending yourself against my arguments.

    is worth a 😆

    Gunz
    Free Member

    I’ve never seen the attraction of having to learn a whole load of ‘rules’ just so I can cycle in a massive group, it just seems to spoil the essential freedom that cycling’s all about.
    I tried a running club once and the high percentage of jobsworths instructing me on how they felt I should be running made it a once only affair for the same reasons.

    deviant
    Free Member

    Its amazing how I manage to cycle 99% of the same roads he cycles, yet I manage to do it without a constant stream of near misses and confrontations with drivers…

    Me too.

    I’m in the busy south east and do a lot of my cycling through towns, on dual carriageways, during the school run etc etc….

    ….i’ve only once had a near miss and i take some of the blame for that, i moved up the left of a vehicle wanting to turn left while i wanted to go straight ahead….the two dont match and we nearly hit, words were exchanged by both parties but it was enough to shake me up and make me realise that in a car vs bicycle situation the cyclist will always come off worse.

    I ride defensively and in a close situation i give way to cars, the militant ‘i have right of way’ attitude is no good to your family when you’re dead…..this video (like so many on Youtube at the moment) seem to show an increasing number of cyclists that are spoiling for a fight, i have no desire to be associated with this group, as a previous poster said; he looks like a complete prick.

    I ride to relax not to look for confrontation and every opportunity to ‘educate’ car drivers on what rights i may or may not have as a cyclist.
    Riders like this pillock give us all a bad name.

    taxi25
    Free Member

    ^^ this

    dragon
    Free Member

    It seems to be the GoPro brigade, a new niche of angry, self righteous, urban cyclists.

    pondo
    Full Member

    It would be really good if cars had a “polite horn” that went “biiing-bong” like a lift arriving.

    The driver could use it when he really didn’t mean to be a dick but felt that a sound was called for.
    I like that idea! Reckon I’ll be grabbing me a clown-like bulb horn for the car next time I’m in Decathlon. 🙂

    TiRed
    Full Member

    Hear hear! I’ve had the odd confrontation and an assault, but these video makers are in a different league to my experience. Never seen one thank a good driver, either.

    I’ve never seen the attraction of having to learn a whole load of ‘rules’ just so I can cycle in a massive group, it just seems to spoil the essential freedom that cycling’s all about.

    We don’t allow massive groups 8-10 is big enough. There is a certain satisfaction in riding smoothly and effortlessly at speed in a close group with good communication with friends who aren’t trying to show off.

    There are rules, but they are really just about safety and cohesion. Not sure about a running club, but one presumes it is hard to take down seven runners at 25 mph by inattention. The video in the through and off thread is an excellent introduction. Find a welcoming club and try it.

    aracer
    Free Member

    No, the correct thing to do is wait for an appropriate gap to pull out.

    Ah, so we’re back to car is king. Why does the car have more right to overtake the cyclist than the cyclist does to overtake the car? Perhaps you could explain what the cyclist was supposed to do in order to avoid having to brake behind the other cyclist (despite a perfectly decent amount of road to the right – as you’ve admitted sufficient for a car to safely overtake even after he’d pulled out).

    aracer
    Free Member

    Do you also find it frustrating having to learn the skills required to handle a bike off-road?

    weeksy
    Full Member

    aracer – Member

    Ah, so we’re back to car is king. Why does the car have more right to overtake the cyclist than the cyclist does to overtake the car

    Because it’s common sense.. the car is harder to stop, quicker to pull away and most importantly… a LOT bigger and harder than a pushbike.

    scotroutes
    Full Member

    I’ve cycled on the roads with groups of 20 or so other riders without having to adopt some formal “chain gang” type of approach, where folk drift up and down the “peleton” all day, chatting to other folk as they ride and meeting up at stops, cafes, pubs etc for a good chinwag. That’s what I would like a bike club to do, to get away from all this rules nonsense and an expectation that you must be out riding because you are in training for a race of some sort. No wonder roadies get a reputation for being miserable.

    As long as the group is on the correct side of the road, they are causing no more obstruction than a car or a tractor and any vehicle trying to overtake them just has to wait for the correct opportunity. The driver in that first clip was just being impatient. If the low sun was obscuring their view of the traffic island and bollard ahead then they should have realised something was afoot when they started driving over the hatched area on the road – “do not enter unless it is safe to do so”… not being able to see the road ahead makes it seem pretty unsafe to me.

    stumpy01
    Full Member

    aracer – Member

    No, the correct thing to do is wait for an appropriate gap to pull out.

    Ah, so we’re back to car is king. Why does the car have more right to overtake the cyclist than the cyclist does to overtake the car? Perhaps you could explain what the cyclist was supposed to do in order to avoid having to brake behind the other cyclist (despite a perfectly decent amount of road to the right – as you’ve admitted sufficient for a car to safely overtake even after he’d pulled out).

    I haven’t watched the particular video in question (although I did watch the one in the OP and several others), but there’s been enough discussion about it for me to get the gist….

    Cyclist overtaking cyclist – closing speed, perhaps 5mph? 10mph tops?
    Car overtaking cyclist (assume cyclist doing 20mph to be generous) – closing speed of 40mph.

    You are not just supposed to consider the distance from an approaching vehicle (car or otherwise), but also whether you will impede it’s passage by moving into it’s path.

    For example, on the way to work I stick to 60mph. If I need to overtake a lorry on the dual carriageway sections, I don’t pull out into the path of a car that is approaching me on the outside, even if it is several seconds away as it will take me longer than that to complete the manouevre so I will impede it’s passage.
    I will either lift off and wait for it to pass, or if I really want to get past it and think I have enough space, I will change down a couple of gears and accelerate up to the speed of the approaching car as I pull out so I can pass the lorry and not cause the approaching car to slow down at the same time.
    When I get to 3 or 4 lane sections of road, I will pull out on approaching cars, but ONLY if the lane to their outside is clear so they have somewhere to move to and remain unimpeded. If it is a bit tight, or if there are cars coming up their outside, I will wait until they are past.

    Unless the cyclist can pull out, overtake and move back in without impeding the approaching driver, he should not pull out until the car has passed.

    mogrim
    Full Member

    I’ve never seen the attraction of having to learn a whole load of ‘rules’ just so I can cycle in a massive group, it just seems to spoil the essential freedom that cycling’s all about.

    The rules pretty much boil down to don’t brake or swerve without warning, signal obstructions on the road, and keep close to the bike in front without crossing your front wheel with his back. Apart from the signalling bit the rest should be obvious to anyone with half a brain, and are none are likely to spoil your enjoyment of a ride.

    crispycross
    Free Member

    Gunz said » I’ve never seen the attraction of having to learn a whole load of ‘rules’ just so I can cycle in a massive group, it just seems to spoil the essential freedom that cycling’s all about.

    And he’s not the only one. This might be a bit controversial and I’m not sure how much I agree with it, but we’re prepared to learn a whole lot of rules to drive cars and whatnot on the roads, why not bikes? Anyway, how many of these oppressive ‘rules’ are for the benefit of the rest of the group (and I’m sure none of use would say it was a bad idea to look out for each other and not cause crashes) and how many are for the benefit of other road users? Is it even possible to make such a distinction?

    ransos
    Free Member

    And he’s not the only one. This might be a bit controversial and I’m not sure how much I agree with it, but we’re prepared to learn a whole lot of rules to drive cars and whatnot on the roads, why not bikes?

    Because bikes don’t kill 1900 people per year.

    scotroutes
    Full Member

    The rules in the Highway Code apply to all road users. That includes looking, before signalling, before manoeuvring. You have no right to pull out in front of a car to overtake another cyclist or pass a stationery vehicle than you do to pull outbid a slower moving lane on the motorway. If it’s not clear to do so, wait.

    BoardinBob
    Full Member

    Ah, so we’re back to car is king.

    It’s got nothing to do with the “car is king” and everything to do with basic common sense, courtesy and safety.

    It doesn’t matter if you’re riding a bike, driving a car or generally walking along the street. If you want to overtake someone

    a) Check behind you
    b) Make sure no one is going to cycle/ drive/ walk into the back of you
    c) Pull out and overtake in a safe manner

    I’m beginning to suspect you’re the guy in the video. If not then you share the same unfortunate view point.

    If you’re driving in a car and you want to overtake, if you looked in the rear view mirror and saw a car approaching fast in the lane to your right that you want to overtake in, would you just pull out anyway because you want to overtake, regardless of the fact the approaching car may run into you? That’s the “I’m alright Jack and stuff everyone else” mentality.

    I bet you stand still on escalators too…

Viewing 40 posts - 81 through 120 (of 153 total)

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