is it better to jump or be pushed?

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  • is it better to jump or be pushed?
  • Hi

    if you were to be facing disciplinary action in your current job and you knew pretty much that it will end in your dismissal due to gross misconduct, would you hand your notice in or wait for the fat lady?

    and yes….it is me and not a friend 😳

    Premier Icon wwaswas
    Subscriber

    if you expect to be claiming any unemployment money off the state you need to be pushed. ‘I walked out’ is not seen as a good reason to be unemployed.

    If you think you’ll get another job quick then walk – future employers might ask why but you won’t have a ‘sacked’ against you on your cv/reference.

    brooess
    Member

    jump means no benefits
    pushed may make it harder to get another job (although I don’t know legally what the old employer can tell the new one)

    edlong
    Member

    Jump now unless you expect to require state benefits off the back of your unemployment, in which case wait for the push.

    Premier Icon ads678
    Subscriber

    I want to know what you’ve done! Gross misconduct? That sounds interesting………

    Oh and as above really, depends if you’ll need to claim dole or not.

    Houns
    Member

    If you’re paid sick, go off for a month or two with stress first

    brakes
    Member

    how much port did you drink?

    Premier Icon Rusty Spanner
    Subscriber

    ‘Remember, whatever the cost, you have to burn all the bridges you’ve cossed.
    The Devils you’ve yet to behold are better by far than the Devils you know.’

    how much port did you drink?

    more

    I was in a similar situation and quit. I still got jobseekers allowance.

    xiphon
    Member

    Legally, the new employer can’t say anything negative about you – for referrals. “He turned up on time and was helpful towards other staff”

    BUT – a little note at the bottom of their referral saying

    For more information, please telephone [old boss] is the killer!

    The conversation on the phone is never written down… so it never actually took place 😉

    i.e Your old boss can say what they want (and be blunt) to the person asking for a referral.

    Liftman
    Member

    Go on the sick

    rattrap
    Member

    Benefits wise, better to walk and have a excuse – if dismissed for Gross misconduct, then almost certainly you’ll can get a benefits sanction if moving on to jobseekers – at least if you walk you can give benefits office an excuse underwriting your reason for leaving – asked to carry out illegal instructions, health and safety concerns etc, that would mean no sanction was imposed.

    best outcome would be to negotiate an exit – have you got anything on them that would be inconvenient if revealed? could you walk and claim constructive dismissal?

    joolsburger
    Member

    Depends how naughty you were are you sure it’s the bullet?

    enfht
    Member

    Are you Cardinal Keith O’Brien ?

    johndoh
    Member

    If you’re paid sick, go off for a month or two with stress first

    Go on the sick

    Ohh you gotta love this sort of advice. So the OP deserves to be sacked but he should still stiff the employers?

    brakes
    Member

    he should still stiff the employers

    employers are more than willing to regularly stiff employees so why not?

    brakes +1

    as a salesman i’ve been sacked for FA on numerous occasions and I give agree, when the table’s turned you get sweet FA off them and man’s survival instinct kicks in so go on the sick, but be careful to check your contract, because if your sick pay is discretionary they’ll let you take all the time off you want, for free.

    Ask them for a compromise agreement, it will protect you both…. I’d still threaten tribunal anyway just to piss them off

    johndoh
    Member

    employers are more than willing to regularly stiff employees so why not?

    I see. That seems a perfectly fair justification to screw over the OP’s employers.

    (Should I insert a rolly-eye graphic at this point?)

    yossarian
    Member

    Three things to consider.

    1) ask them two really easy but really hard questions to buy you some time.

    Have they followed company policy and procedure if one exists?
    Can they evidence that they have followed company policy and procedure?

    2) going off sick is an option but I would say you should use it only if you are being shafted unfairly.

    3) if you are in the wrong and you know what you did was wrong then MTFU, go in smartly dressed with a honest resignation letter and go see the MD. Apologise, give him the letter and shake his hand.

    If they treat you like a ****, hit a fire alarm break glass on the way out.

    Basil
    Member

    Disciplinary action can still be concluded even if you resign, therefore possible affecting a reference.
    Where I work they do like to talk people out of a job rather than the effort of following the disciplinary course to conclusion.
    It is my opinion that you should take the course of action that is best for you, thoughts of doing the right thing by an employer are not often reciprocated.

    Basil has hit the nail on the head, if i walk disciplinary action can still be concluded, they may still expect me to turn up to the hearing too!

    but i’ve decided to hand in my notice tomorrow and see what comes of it….

    yossarian
    Member

    So come on. I’ll ask if no one else will.

    WHAT DID YOU DO?
    Have you been snorting coke off the backside of the MD’s personal dwarf?
    Again

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Subscriber

    Going off sick seems like a good option but do you want to be applying for new jobs- “And why did you leave your last job?” “Well I was off sick with stress for 6 months”

    You’ll know your situation best but once you’re gone, are they likely to pursue you? What’s in it for them?

    xiphon – Member

    Legally, the new employer can’t say anything negative about you

    Commonly repeated this but I don’t think there’s any truth in it. Negative comments do have to be substantiated and factual though.

    edlong
    Member

    There’s also plenty of scope to send a message in a reference by what you conspicuously don’t say.

    Premier Icon unknown
    Subscriber

    An employer can say anything they like in a reference provided it’s factual. Given that some of the more common questions include why did person x leave and would you re-hire, there’s plenty of scope to include negative feedback without it being subjective. Even where it’s policy only to confirm job title and dates of employment a company will often state that a person has been dismissed. I work in hr and give and take references every day. As someone said, the most telling ones are often unrecorded and over the phone. If people think someone’s been taking the proverbial they don’t hesitate to stick the boot in. That said, I’d often only be concerned if we reached that point and the candidate had given me a very different story.

    A reference will almost certainly include ‘dismissed for gross misconduct’ if nothing else.

    pjt201
    Member

    xiphon – Member
    Legally, the new employer can’t say anything negative about you – for referrals. “He turned up on time and was helpful towards other staff”

    I’m never sure where this came from as there are no laws specifically saying this, the only thing that does count is libel. If you commit gross misconduct, and have evidence for it which they may or may not have used at a disciplinary, they are more than ok to say that in a reference.

    batfink
    Member

    if you are in the wrong and you know what you did was wrong then MTFU, go in smartly dressed with a honest resignation letter and go see the MD. Apologise, give him the letter and shake his hand.

    ^this!

    Going of sick etc will only make it more likely that your boss will go out of their way to torpedo you when he/she gets a reference request.

    Markie
    Member

    3) if you are in the wrong and you know what you did was wrong then MTFU, go in smartly dressed with a honest resignation letter and go see the MD. Apologise, give him the letter and shake his hand.

    +1+2.

    Well said yossarian.

    The DSS never check whether you left a job by your own free will (in my experience). They just say that to put you off quitting jobs.

    xiphon
    Member

    More can be said in 5 minutes via the phone – off the record, of course – than can be written down [in a legal document].

    A “neutral” referral letter means “read between the lines – there’s more too it – give me a call if you want an honest answer”

    Referral letters are just a formality.

    Either way – don’t burn your bridges – you never known when you will require your [current] employers again!

    tiggs121
    Member

    You don’t work for the BBC do you??

    Premier Icon edd
    Subscriber

    but i’ve decided to hand in my notice tomorrow and see what comes of it….

    Good luck. Whether the “misconduct” was your fault (and it sounds like it may have been), or not, it’s a tough position to be in. Keep your head up, things will get better.

    bigyinn
    Member

    You’re not a Scottish Catholic Bishop are you?

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