Vincienup – fair enough – we all have preferences.
Not sure what I was making up though? Certainly didn’t intend to annoy.

* Northwind is out of the office, as he had to make an unplanned trip to Japan, to burn Shimano to the ground *

Imagine hubs and wheels with four or more freehub standards on top of various axles and boost etc. Or they could just adopt XD

I think to understand Shimano’s attitude to competitor standards, you just have to look at 20mm axles.

Currently XO1. Would love to move to eagle – can I keep my sram XO1 crank and chain ring? I know a XX1 crank will. You can just put the new chain ring on.

Or just get sram GX? Whole setup is pretty damn cheap

No need to change the crank, I’m running GX11 on x9 10sp cranks – all it does is put the chainring in the right place.

Did you need to change the chain ring Mike, thanks for the reply. Currently 32t XO 1 x11.

I know shifters, chain cassette has to change no problems. Now I’m tempted! I note the German shops are selling just upgrade kits. Shifters, chain cassette.

https://www.worldwidecyclery.com/blogs/worldwide-cyclery-blog/will-sram-eagle-work-on-your-bike-heres-what-you-need
http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/running-sram-eagle-12-speed-cranset-with-11-speed-chain
All says yes to an existing 11sp working fine

Thank you very much, very kind. I’m off to buy!

I still don’t see the advantage of 10t vs 11t myself. Sure if you change the chain ring to compensate then it shifts the whole range, but 11t is a non issue for me. I have no need to make it faster.

Anyway, I’m still on 11-40 XTR cassette (X01 mech), with 32t, and get up hills and mountains fine enough. Majority of my gear selection is somewhere mid cassette though. I’m not about climbing or flat out on tarmac.

my bikes span this argument…

I’m running 1×11 Shimano XT on the plus bike
SRAM 1×11 on the full suss
SRAM old skool 2×10 on the 29er.

the 1 tooth difference at the business end makes very little difference IMO. I still spin out on fast road descents, but very rarely need anything more on the trails. If ever.

Shimano seems to suffer in the mud more than SRAM. When things get really boggy, and the drivetrain is caked, the Shimano chain retention seems to be way worse. I have no idea why. To the point that in extreme conditions it can become unrideable. (if anyone knows of anything I may have set up wrong then I am all ears…but 99.9% of the time it is slick and faultless….just whenever it gets shown mud things go belly up – to the point I wouldn’t want to race it in winter).

My only grip with SRAM. XD Hubs. Do we really need this standard? Especially with a 50 tooth granny ring, you can run a slightly larger chain ring.

Oh – My 2×10 has worked fine for 6 years and is so cheap in comparison to replace worn items! (But having been sucked in my marketeers and liking the aesthetics of 1x – that’s all I would probably buy moving forward)

Do we really need this standard

You could argue not, but in my experience its better than the shimano one, so maybe the question should be do we need the shimano one any more?

TBF the XD freehubs and the GX 11sp cassettes are the best thing to come from 11 speed.

The range is enough the vast majority of the time, and the cassettes last really well.

So, any pointers for affordable 28t chainrings? In Shimano asymmetric SLX pattern. Superstar only went to 30t. Is that the limit ‘cos of the bolt holes?

Yes. 104bcd is the issue. I think one up or absolute black made a 28 but it needed special thin but strong steel bolts to give the clearance. Alot easier to just use a direct mount chainset IMO, and do away with BCD limitations altogether.

It’s 96 BCD on the new SLX and XT

But it seems you have to mount them to the inner ring holes for 28t or lower. And I can only find expensive US-made ones.

AB made a 30T oval chainring that needed two normal bolts and two thinner ones to fit to a 104BCD spider. I think their 26T and 28T oval rings are direct mount only – I’ve the 28T on my fat bike.

According to AB’s website, the round rings are 64BCD only

The problem Shimano and Sunrace have with the cassettes is that, while the freehub body is an open standard, Sram patented the only good way of designing the cassettes-

https://www.google.co.uk/patents/US20120302384

Which is why the e13 is a complicated multi-part thing. Shimano wouldn’t want to offer such a compromised cassette (not that the M8000 one’s aren’t compromised…).

I have Sram XX1 on one bike and XT M8000 on my others. The M8000 stuff is far superior in terms of shift feel and quality – the XX1 shift feels like Acera circa 1998. Lots of play, clunky, plasticy feeling. But the XT cassettes are poor – the alloy cogs are way too soft, while the XX1 one is 3 bikes and 4 years old! I put a Sunrace 11-46 on when my first XT wore out in no time and it’s much better.

Shimano mech and shifters, Sram cassette and chain if going from scratch, or Shimano mech and shifters with a Sunrace cassette if upgrading from 10 speed.

I’m quite enjoying still being happy on old school 1×10. Saint shifters FTW! 😉

^^ Yeah I have a Saint 10sp shifter on the hardtail (and 11sp XTR on the big bike) and I don’t want to change either of them.

If XD could actually be a standard, not proprietary and locking into unnecessarily expensive cassettes, then I’ll buy into it. Some day. But I’m not about to change all my freehubs to buy into it. But then I’m happy with XT and XTR cassettes and even the 11-40 range limit of XTR. 40t is still a novelty to me anyway. Even still got 11-36t 10 speed on one bike.

If XD could actually be a standard, not proprietary and locking into unnecessarily expensive cassettes, then I’ll buy into it.

It’s hard to call the GX expensive when it’s in the same ball park as the XT and will probably last a lot longer being nearly all steel.
XT £65
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/shimano-xt-m8000-11-speed-11-46t-cassette/rp-prod149701
GX £85
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/sram-xg-1150-11sp-cassette/rp-prod135801
(10/11 cogs steel etc.)

To be fair though I don’t think we’ll see XD get much cheaper- could be wrong but it seems to be just a more complex thing to make. Whereas the previous standard at least was dead simple and super cheap cassettes could be made. Cheap, wide range cassettes don’t compete on range and tend to weigh a ton so it’s not something I do, but at least it’s an option.

(for me, for 11 or 12 speed for mtb, XD is the only game in town… Just because if you’re not going XD, it doesn’t offer any real advantage over 10 speed, it’s the wider range that makes it make sense to me. But then I still think 10 speed is a great option)

I’ve just decommissioned M8000 on my Shimano bike and replaced with 10sp xtr and an expanded cassette for this reason.

I’ll be interested to see what this new freehub from Shimano offers, but for me XD is the way forward for 11 sp also, for the same reason. M8000 is just made of compromise.

Seems silly putting feel ahead of mechanical performance.

Owned m8000, m9000, gx and x01…

Guess what had the most consistent shifting in all conditions had had the best chain retention under all conditions and longevity…..i couldn’t call it between gx and x01.

What failed first? M8000, mega slop in the pivots.

The m9000 was pretty good but got a fair few ghost shifts when mashing the pedals in the rough

Screw this weird idea of brand loyalty, just does not make sense… nutters

chiefgrooveguru – Member
I’m quite enjoying still being happy on old school 1×10. Saint shifters FTW

Agreed – I miss the Saint shifting vs M8000. And that’s in the dry.

10 speed saint isn’t just the best shifter ever, it’s the best shifter there’ll ever be. And it weighs the same as XTR, too- I had it on my XC bike and now on my fatbike, very downhill