I’ve owned 3 full-sussers in the past 6 years: an original 2003 Spesh Enduro, Orange 5 (2004 I think), and at the moment a 2006/7 Giant Reign. None of them have been my main bike, but even after 12 months of riding my Giant Reign I don’t feel 100% comfortable or confident on it, whereas I changed my hardtail 6 weeks ago (from a DB Love/Hate to a Genesis Altitude) and immediately “clicked” with it. I know there’s more variables between full-sussers than hardtails, but I’d expect to feel comfortable with my full-susser before now. I feel very much perched on top of it rather than “in” it, and just lack the confidence to really chuck it around. Hard to describe how I find it, but it’s just too wallowy despite trying every sort of setup on it. I just don’t like it I think.

I’m sorely tempted to punt it on, but before I do I’m looking for advice/reassurance that I’m not being an indecisive muppet or fussy bugger! I use a full-susser to help me progress my riding: a bike to let me away with mistakes if I’m trying something more technical than I’m used to riding on a hardtail. Hence my current choice of a Giant Reign. But I feel 6″ travel is completely overkill for most of my riding I do on it, so I’m thinking I might be better on something with less travel (4-5″) but still relaxed head angle (if such a thing exists). But would it be better for me?

I don’t want to sell this and buy another frame just to find the same again. Should I just MTFU and stick with the Reign, or switch to something else which might be more “suitable” for my purposes? Suggestions for a frame?

Help me, I’m utterly fed up with this bike…

Ally

where do you ride, predominantly ?

If you ride XC then a hardtail is most peoples prefered option unless you are doing 40miles + and the comfort of a 3″ or 4″ FS is a welcome addition i found.

If you only ride trail centers then 5″ is the largest you need.

If you like to jump then 6″ is the choice.

If you’re utterly fed up with it get rid of it. Sounds like it just doesn’t suit you.

I do 90% of my riding on a hardtail, and just about all my racing on a hardtail, but I also have an old Kona Coiler (6″ travel). When I jump on that it takes no getting used to whatsoever. I just point it where I want to go and relax. It’s a blast to ride.

So in short. A bike shouldn’t take ages to get right. Try something else.

SB

where do you ride, predominantly ?

Mainly locally around the Stirling area and it’s certainly hardtail territory. 95% of the time I’ll be on my hardtail, although there’s a good mix of hardtail/full-susser users among those I ride with. I find a hardtail fine for it all though. I’ve been using the Reign mainly at trail centres, e.g. Glentress and Innerleithen, where I’ve found it useful for building up my confidence (the series of drops on Caddon Bank, for example). But in all honesty, I prefer my hardtail with 120mm forks even for the likes of Glentress and even on the jumpy bits on Spooky Woods and the last bit of blue/red (Good Game).

If you only ride trail centers then 5″ is the largest you need.

If you like to jump then 6″ is the choice.
I do ride trail centres, but not predominantly. But yeah, I feel that because I’ve got this bike that I should use it occasionally – trail centres seem to be the obvious choice. I don’t do much big jumping at all, but that was where I found the Reign to be best suited, i.e. it gave me confidence to try things…

for trail centres such as glentress, etc, i’d ONLY use the bl00dy hardtail ! ? !

My Reign has been hanging in the garage all winter. I’ve been mainly riding a Genesis iO, and occasionally a geared Whyte 19 with some Pikes on the front for longer/higher speed rides. I took down the Reign to find (surprise-surprise) the bottom bracket has seized, so I changed the bearings, fitted a new fork (Magura Wotan). I then headed to Innerleithen to ride the XC course.

Just out of the car-park and across the road my foot whipped out of the SPD – I’ll tighten them in a bit I thought. 200m later it did it agin on one of the hairpins on the climb, leaving me to fall to the inside with quite a thump, and a bleeding left elbow. I’ll tighten those NOW.

5 mins later I get back on the bike and 5 metres later the chain snaps, leaving me in a pile with a bleeding right knee. I hate this bike!

Anyway, I fixed the chain and got going. The seatpost was 4-5cm too short which led to a harder-than-necessary climb, and the full-suss aspect had me all over the place. It was like I was surfing a mattress.

Engaging pro-pedal and reducing the fork travel made it feel a lot less alien (and standing up SS-style really didn’t help). Basically, the further I rode the more I got to grips with remembering how to ride the bike. I rode this bike a lot last summer (5 weeks in BC) and I really liked it.

By the time we reached the top, my legs were hurting from the short seatpost, but I was getting to grips with it.

Anyway, the rest of the trail proved to me how good the bike is. We ripped down and the suspension was perfect. The time I’d take to set up the Wotans and the check the rear shock were well spent. I really enjoyed it. The 3rd drop on Caddon Bank has always been my psychological nemesis, but yesterday I barely felt it as the Wotans and the Reign did their job. I now can’t wait to ride it again, but I did nearly call it a day in the first 500 metres!

My advice is stick at it. I really like the Reign and agree that 6″ is perhaps too much sometimes, but stick at it and try to find the best way to ride that bike. All bikes require slightly different approaches, and moving from one to the other isn’t always easy, but I’m sure it makes you a better rider overall.

What fork and shock are you running?

If you ride XC then a hardtail is most peoples prefered option unless you are doing 40miles + and the comfort of a 3″ or 4″ FS is a welcome addition i found.

Forgot to add, I’ve never seen the attraction (for me) of a 3/4″ full-susser – I’ve always just grin-and-beared it over longer 40miles+ rides.

I’ve got all the bits, and the space in my collection, for a full-susser. Perhaps I might be better punting it on and looking for a shorter-travel replacement, I don’t know.

Thanks for that reply Troutwrestler – I know where you’re coming from.

I’m running 55 ATA2’s replaced with 2009 internals (wound out to 150mm on the downs) and (I think) an RP3 rear shock

The Reign is perfect for hammering down the cliff-top trail at the North Third, or for the Ciaran Path at Kinlochleven. On the whole, man-made stuff isn’t really rough enough to get the best out of the bike.

for trail centres such as glentress, etc, i’d ONLY use the bl00dy hardtail ! ? !

I know :oops:, and as I said I actually prefer the hardtail at them. But usually at the likes of GT I’ll end up on the freeride bit for a while, and that’s why I usually take the full-susser with me. I’m not sure whether I end up on the freeride bit because I’ve got the big bike, and whether I’d miss having it.

The Reign is perfect for hammering down the cliff-top trail at the North Third

I actually prefer my hardtail for that! Even if it means I mince the drops, I still prefer the rest of the N3 trail on a hardtail. Maybe I am better suited to a hardtail style…

That’s a shame really. A couple of questions though:

You said you felt on-top rather than in: how much sag are you running on the Reign? When I increased the sag to 1/3rd on my TranceX it started to feel like Freeride bike, albeit at the expense of efficient pedalling (thank God for pro-pedal eh?).

What about rebound on the rear-shock? Generally, I think you want to run relatively slow rebound to avoid the feeling of being pinged up and forward unexpectdly.

What stem? Giants come with stems suitable for XC rather than AM. Swapping from a 100mm to a 70mm stem and wider bars really helped me move around better without making the steering jittery.

On the other hand, big-forked HTs are larf. I think they are better on slow-mo riding without the back of the bike wiggling up and down and being unbalancing. Mine is terrifying at higher speeds – it accelerates and charges like an enraged bull with me literally hanging on for grim death as it leaps and sides about; I arrive at the bottom exhausted, goggle-eyed and shaking with adrenaline after another apparently near-death experience – what a scream!

buzz-lightyear:
– sag at 30% (or aiming for)
– RF Evolve AM stuff, 80mm stem with decently wide bars

I’ve always wondered about a big-forked hardtail, possibly as a replacement for my Reign if I go down that path. Something along the lines of a Genesis Alptitude or DB Alpine. But again, I’m not sure as I tend to use the full-suss as a get-out clause. A big-forked hardtail might get me into all sorts of trouble 😀

Dead right about the stem length. IMO Giants come under-forked and over-stemmed.

The 55 (reliability aside) is probably a good fork for the Reign. Have a good think about your riding position, both seated and standing, and set up the rear shock to suit. Experimentation is the answer, anf it takes time to get right.

Re the N3. The first time I rode it I was on my Reign, this time last year, and I cleaned it, and couldn’t understand where everyone else was. It turns out they were finding it a bit harder. I went there a couple of weeks ago on the Whyte, and Man, did I slam hard, only about 200m from the bottom. Every limb was bleeding and I thought I’d fractured my left shin. “I want my Reign…” I whimpered as I rode (slowly) back to King’s Park. It is a fantastic bit of trail though.

“A big-forked hardtail might get me into all sorts of trouble”

Oh yes it will, esp. if you try and ride it as hard as a FS. That’s why I still like riding mine for short bursts. I want to replace mine with a steel-frame equivalent like the dialled or summer season.

I agree that the Giants come under-forked for what they are capable of. My TranceX has a QR F120 RL which is a really great XC fork – light, plush and lovely, but you can feel it twisting under hard loads and vibration and this upsets the tracking just when you need it to be precise. But quality forks are so expensive I don’t see me replacing it 🙁

Agree with you about being under-forked and over-stemmed. I got mine as a frame-only 2nd hand and rode with my Revelations at 130mm for a couple of rides. Far too short a fork for the Reign IMO, almost had me over the bars repeatedly. My 55’s suffered the usual reliability issue last year but I’ve had the internals updated to 2009 ones under warranty, great fork now.

I’ve tried a lot of different set-ups on the bike and nothing’s made it feel just right. I just think I’ve exhausted the possibilities on it.

You’re not an SBCer, are you?! Just the mention of Kings Park…

No, but I’ve a friend who studies at Stirling Uni, so it’s an easy place to meet. I stay over by Kinross.

I wonder if a Trance set up with a slightly bigger fork, might be an option for me? Should be slightly less wallowy, a bit more suitable travel for my needs perhaps, but still allow me a get-out-of-jail-free card should I c0ck it up?

I’m saying bigger fork, as I’d probably sell the frame only which would leave me with my 55 ATA2’s (120-160mm travel adjust), if I decide to punt it on.

No, but I’ve a friend who studies at Stirling Uni, so it’s an easy place to meet. I stay over by Kinross.

Ah, I ride with them occasionally and KP was always a good meeting place.

Ally, you could try slightly shorter travel…the MArin I’ve just bought has some laid back angles, but only 120mm travel – more than enough for anything really (unless it is full blown DH) – don’t feel perched on it and it seems to ride very well (but the rider doesn’t!)…just my opinion though…if you think 6″ is too much then it probably is – you are riding the bike not us…

When I was test riding the Trance and the Reign, I found the Reign was like a pogo stick, just couldn’t get on with it…but the Trance felt really sorted…so I went for the Trance…now I reckon the Marin is a much better choice – bit more travel and the comfort is there, but it doesn’t wallow or pogo…seems to tick my boxes.

For Stirling, I reckon hardtail is ample (but I’m a 1 bike kind of guy and can’t work out why people have more than 1 so it is full bounce for me), but if you are going further afield and riding in new areas…the full bounce might be enough to help convert the grin to a full blown smile after a day in the saddle in a new place.

A Trance (100mm) or an Anthem X (100mm) might struggle with a 160mm fork. A Trance X (125mm) might be good. My wife has a Trance X with 130mm Revs, but she’s not a very aggressive rider.

Ah, I wondered what you’d got yourself Richard. That sounds like a good idea – laid back angles (which I’ve found I prefer on other bikes) and less travel than the 160mm I currently have. In all honesty, you do similar riding to me on largely the same terrain, so you could have a point.

I think you’ve been affected somewhat though – one bike is never enough…

I may do similar riding, but mine doesn’t appear to be as fast or as often – I’m not a good reference point – not getting out enough so everything is like a relearning of what I’ve forgotten!

I’ve been questioning whether a 5spot has more travel than I need for a few months now. Moneywise, there’s no possibility of me changing to anything else any time soon, but when the time is right, a flux will be severely tested prior to any decisions being made.

Sell your Turner?!?!?! Nooooooooooooo…….

Ally

You obviously love your new hardtail so why not do what I did last year when I found myself hating my heckler. I just left the hardtail in the shed and only rode the heckler. It forces you to get the hang of it and try different pressures, stems, seatpost length etc.

It’s surely worth a try for a month or two before getting rid of I’d say. I’ve never ridden one but reigns are very well liked bikes.

Steven

Good point Steve. I do remember you not getting on with the Heckler at first, doesn’t seem to be holding you back now. Might give that idea a try – head off for a another faffing ride with my shock pump and see how I get on.

I recently sold a short travel HT (a Hummer) and my “All day bike” a 6″ Helius, and bought a Chameleon. Stuck 140mm air forks on it, and TBH it’s the best thing I did. I can do anything on that bike that I could on the other two, it’ll be XC race(y) if I want it to, and It’ll throw it’s self off anything I have the balls to look at. I’ve no regrets at all. Long travel HT IS the way forward.

To throw another aspect into my full-suss issues, I measured up my bikes last night and I reckon my Giant Reign could be slightly too big for me…

I’m 185cm (about 6’1) and my Reign is a Large. Comparing the geometry of my hardtails (17.5″ Genesis Altitude and a Gary Fisher Rig 29er) puts them on par with a medium Reign in terms of top-tube length. Even with a short stem my large-sized Reign is a good 1″ longer in the top-tube than my Genesis (the bike I feel most comfortable on), so I guess that might have something to do with it.

I don’t think a long-forked hardtail would be the way forward for me – potential for me to get into trouble too easily!