Is driving getting worse?

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  • Is driving getting worse?
  • Premier Icon connect2
    Subscriber

    Talking of overtaking, worst I ever had was being stuck for miles on a rural road behind an old codger doing 35 whilst I’m behind him towing a caravan. I can see a long line of cars behind no doubt blaming me for the hold up. Come to a short stretch of dual carriageway so I overtake him, he then floors it, overtakes me and squeezes in just before the end of the dual carriageway and drops back to 35! The memory still makes me seethe!

    Flaperon
    Member

    Insurance companies as a group to fund a dashcam for every customer (sheer volume probably means cost ~Β£15/unit.

    Any accident requires dash cam footage from both vehicles – if any doubt then vehicle with missing footage presumed at fault. Camera includes GPS to record speed (only released in event of a claim).

    Problem solved.

    Premier Icon aracer
    Member

    Sooner the better for that too, flaperon – really must get round to sorting a dashcam for my car at least. Black box requirements for insurance for young drivers is certainly one of the more positive things to happen, which should also be made more widespread (though I guess the reasons for older drivers having accidents wouldn’t tend to be picked up in quite the same way). Lots we can do with technology which we aren’t.

    DiscJockey
    Member

    You can tell how sh**e a lot of drivers are on the motorway – as soon as they see anything that resembles a police car up ahead, they slam on their brakes in panic, as they’ve become so used to breaking the law (e.g driving over the speed limit everywhere they go) they only know who to react at the last moment, and out of selfishness, don’t do anything preventative or considerate. This might not be a new thing, but it certainly feels like it’s getting worse.

    Same with people who drive close to cyclists at 40mph, and slam their brakes on immediately afterwards if they think there’s a speed camera up ahead – it’s pure selfishness, to the point where the only thing that matters is not getting a fine/license points.

    agent007
    Member

    Trucks have about 14 gears each coveting a very small range. They need to keep at a constant speed or end up going up and down the gears which is a real pain. Cut them some slack

    So what’s more of a pain, asking a single truck to travel at 0.5mph off it’s maximum limited speed by simply sitting behind another truck, or having two trucks, one slowly grinding its way past the other over several miles and holding up 20-30 cars in the process?

    2) fitting of a black box accelerator thingy like some insurers supposedly offer to teenagers. Too much sharp acceleration/deceleration/swerving = loss of license for a period.

    Absolute bull, a black box can’t tell whether you’re texting, whether or not you’ve had a drink, whether or not you’re in the appropriate lane, whether you cut someone up or not, whether you tailgate, whether your observation skills are up to scratch. Safe driving is so much more than the actual dynamics of the vehicle in question. Sometimes its prudent to use the full performance of your vehicle (in a planned way, not a reactionary way) to prevent a potentially dangerous situation developing into a close call or accident.

    Furthermore I had to have a word with my young nephew after he tried to join the motorway at 40mph at the end of the sliproad the other week. His reasoning, well as a new driver the slower he accelerated then the cheaper his insurance!

    Further compulsory training for all drivers every few years and more police on the roads monitoring driving standards are the only ways to significantly improve safety.

    Agent – take it you’ve never worked in haulage then? Tacho readouts are the bane of ever drivers life, usually for all the wrong reasons (one company I know of has theirs set to add a minute onto driving time every time they stop). Minutes count.

    And you absolutely could tell tailgating from a black box, the constant dabbing on the brakes is a dead giveaway.

    Sadly I do agree that your nephew was probably correct in his assumptions though not their application. Swift acceleration with correct use if gears should be fine in the real world.

    Tailgating is not going to make others drive faster.

    Had someone on my rear while I was driving at 30-32mph in a 30mph – so I’m speeding!

    After being beeped repeatedly I pulled over and went up to other car and asked the old lady in a Land Rover what was wrong and she called the Police.

    I waited and explained to the Police. She told them I was a liar till I played my dash and rear cams which they had a word with her as I drove off lol.

    cbike
    Member

    I made a mistake on an unfamiliar roundabout recently and caused someone else grief However they could have chosen to brake and avoid what was obviously developing in front. But they didn’t. They kept coming even after they reacted. They also chased me and threatened me despite apologies. Most people would have got on with their lives but this guy was proper crazy and looking for a fight which he didn’t get. It’s taken me about three days to recover.

    ryan91
    Member

    Glad to see Wolverhampton got a mention on the first page. Approaching the M6 today on the Black Country Route, 3 cars on the outside lane. 1st sitting at about the speed limit for ages in the outside lane, car behind tailgating with full beams and fog lights on, 3rd car undertakes and cuts up car 1 (with only a tap of the indicator when already swerving right) to save getting boxed in by the car in front of me on the inside lane.

    I hate driving around the area now I moved to Shropshire !

    As for autonomous cars, when the war against cyber fraud and hackers has been won then yes most certainly, however I’d hate to think of what carnage could be inflicted in revenge for a drone strike on an ISIS leader.

    Premier Icon tomd
    Subscriber

    Insurance companies as a group to fund a dashcam for every customer (sheer volume probably means cost ~Β£15/unit.

    Any accident requires dash cam footage from both vehicles – if any doubt then vehicle with missing footage presumed at fault. Camera includes GPS to record speed (only released in event of a claim).

    Problem solved.

    I quite like the idea…but is it really in the insurance / claims management / ambulance chasing industry to have us all drive better? Surely every bump generates a load of cash through the chain.

    hora
    Member

    I was in a garages Skoda Fabias courtesy car and I was road raged twice yesterday. My other half noted that it wouldn’t have happened in our car. Small car = soft target inside?

    Premier Icon scaredypants
    Subscriber

    Absolute bull, a black box can’t tell whether you’re texting, whether or not you’ve had a drink, whether or not you’re in the appropriate lane, whether you cut someone up or not, whether you tailgate, whether your observation skills are up to scratch

    Of course not but if those are bad, your driving will be erratic and/or accident prone so ultimately it will spot them if analysed appropriately. It’s not my preferred solution but then we’re not going to be getting enough traffic police anytime soon

    Safe driving is so much more than the actual dynamics of the vehicle in question

    agreed

    Sometimes its prudent to use the full performance of your vehicle (in a planned way, not a reactionary way) to prevent a potentially dangerous situation developing into a close call or accident.

    Go on then, one example of a planned, non-reactive, use of a vehicle’s full performance to avoid danger ?

    Edukator
    Member

    Hora has a point. I bought a year-old ex-rental Ducato van with minor dings most of the way round it. Haggling included a tow bar and radio rather than sort out the blemishes. Other drivers used to give way even when they had right off way and pedestrians seemed confused when I stopped for zebra crossings.

    I was in a garages Skoda Fabias courtesy car and I was road raged twice yesterday. My other half noted that it wouldn’t have happened in our car. Small car = soft target inside?

    I noticed a distinct difference in other peoples’ attitudes switching from a large family estate to the other half’s old Polo.

    In the same car OH was also confronted by a young lad that overtook after tailgating in the middle of winter on a country lane, then stopped and tried to block the road.

    On the same note, I was being tailgated on the A41 while overtaking in a little Fiesta. I was liftsharing and the passenger in the front (an Advanced Driving Observer) suggested there could be something on the road ahead I needed to avoid, so I tapped the brakes and gave the car a little wiggle. A gap appeared on the inside and tailgater took the opportunity to make progress by undertaking over a junction, with lots of hand gestures and mouthing to let me know how he disapproved of my lack of consideration of his journey. However, when he saw four reasonably large and fit-looking gentlemen squeezed into a small car he took off like a scalded cat. Made me smile.

    Premier Icon jam bo
    Subscriber

    connect2 wrote:

    Talking of overtaking, worst I ever had was being stuck for miles on a rural road behind an old codger doing 35 whilst I’m behind him towing a caravan. I can see a long line of cars behind no doubt blaming me for the hold up. Come to a short stretch of dual carriageway so I overtake him, he then floors it, overtakes me and squeezes in just before the end of the dual carriageway and drops back to 35! The memory still makes me seethe!

    why would you want to be stuck behind a caravan? πŸ˜‰

    rwamartin
    Member

    Sometimes its prudent to use the full performance of your vehicle (in a planned way, not a reactionary way) to prevent a potentially dangerous situation developing into a close call or accident.

    Go on then, one example of a planned, non-reactive, use of a vehicle’s full performance to avoid danger ?[/quote]

    On a sliproad joining a main road. The sliproad is short, the traffic on the main road is heavy. Early observations show that there is a steady flow of vehicles with no gaps and no chance of them moving across to the second lane. There is, however, a gap ahead that, by accelerating hard and possibly exceeding the speed limit you could safely slot into the gap without the need for the traffic on the main road to have to brake and you not have to stop at the yield line at the end.

    This doesn’t mean booting it down the sliproad regardless, doing a mirror check 5 yards from the yield line when you’ve got no chance of stopping and then wanging it into the outside line causing the overtaking car to have to brake for you. This seems to be normal practice on the M4 as is a minimum speed limit of 100mph in the 3rd lane.

    STATO
    Member

    agent007 – Member

    Agree, because of the focus on speed, half the population seem to now think as long as they stick to the speed limit then that makes them a good, safe law abiding motorist. Nothing further from the truth of course.

    Some people are safer driving at 80 than other folk driving at 40 on the same stretch of NSL road. I’d far rather get into a car driven sometimes over the speed limit by a well trained, skilled, observant and courteous driver than I would get into a car with someone driving well under the speed limit who seems seems to possess none of the above.

    Id rather get in a car driven by a well trained, skilled, observant and courteous driver who recognises speed limits are there to try and get everyone driving at a similar pace. Said observant driver would also understands that some will be going slower than that and so realise that travelling at “sometimes over the speed limit” is really not a sensible thing to do, especially as they will know that those “driving well under the speed limit” may be poor drivers.

    Agent007 you really do seem to be obsessed with speed, all of your posts are about how people hold you up by not going at the maximum speed allowed. Why do you have such a hatred for people who hold YOU up? other people are allowed on the road you know. You should really calm down, youll give yourself an aneurism πŸ˜€

    Premier Icon D0NK
    Subscriber

    Absolute bull, a black box can’t tell whether

    they offer corroboration or refutation of what the drivers/witnesses say. If video shows you slammed into someone quite visible or drifted out of lane or a whole bunch of other stuff then you’ve got some questions to answer, if you can’t then you’re at fault. The only way you’ll get what you seem to be asking for is to have an instructor/policeman sat in the passenger seat. We can do a lot more with technology (eg jamming mobiles) and laws, (eg retests) that we as a society just don’t care enough to implement.

    Complaining about trucks and other vehicles going a bit slower than the limit and overtaking each other whilst still remaining fully compliant with the law is just silly. It is an annoyance yes but in effect you’re complaining about other people being on the road. either only drive at 3am or don’t drive.

    Premier Icon cheers_drive
    Subscriber

    I’ve noticed the driving on the roads around Ely is significantly worse than anything I encountered when living in Bristol.
    It’s the perfect storm of poor infrastructure built before most of the local housing estate were built, farm traffic (and the mud they deposit), commuters can’t except that the roads aren’t only for them, bored young people with nothing else to do than razz there mum’s Corsa around country lanes (and then usually in to drainage ditches), and a significant elderly population who drive slow, frustrating others and make all sorts of stupid decisions.
    Thankfully I don’t need to drive much now, self driving cars can’t come quick enough.

    Premier Icon bails
    Subscriber

    “Absolute bull, a black box can’t tell whether”

    they offer corroboration or refutation of what the drivers/witnesses say. If video shows you slammed into someone quite visible or drifted out of lane or a whole bunch of other stuff then you’ve got some questions to answer, if you can’t then you’re at fault

    Are you getting confused between black box (Records speed, acceleration and location) and dashcams?

    I might disagree with some of what agent007 says but he’s got a point with that. A black box won’t pick up a 50mph shoulder brushing pass on a cyclist. In fact, if I were driving and I slowed down and then gave the full width of the lane while accelerating quickly back up towards the limit then my ‘safe’ overtake could look more’jerky’ than the bad overtake.

    Likewise with blowing through red lights and zebra crossings.

    I don’t think black boxes are bad, as they will pick up some stuff, but they don’t record everything.

    edit:

    Some people are safer driving at 80 than other folk driving at 40 on the same stretch of NSL road. I’d far rather get into a car driven sometimes over the speed limit by a well trained, skilled, observant and courteous driver

    This is a false comparison. It’s possible to be well trained and attentive without breaking the speed limit.

    Premier Icon dukeduvet
    Subscriber

    Yes it is worse. We may have low rate of road deaths but some of the antics are downright dangerous.

    Does anyone use indicators anymore? Seemingly not. Lost count of the number of cars in congested but fast moving traffic on the motorway who just diev in front with no warning. Undertaking is common place. As for phone users weaving across as many lanes as they like…

    I have to confess though that I have been getting so frustrated driving recently that I’ve been getting into some bad habits. My wife pointed it out and she was right.

    Regular testing and a much thorough approach needed all round.

    milky1980
    Member

    On the subject of black boxes, I saw a Fiesta earlier being driven by a young male about 5 feet off the back of me. It passed eventually and in the back window was a hand-written sign saying:

    Black Box Fitted – Sorry!!

    Has it come to the point where you have to warn others that you’re going to drive to the speed limit and follow the rules 😯

    Mind you, saying that he did straight-line the next roundabout. Presumably to avoid any harsh cornering πŸ™„

    Premier Icon D0NK
    Subscriber

    Are you getting confused between black box (Records speed, acceleration and location) and dashcams?

    well we’ve been talking about both, but yes I should have said I meant both. Easily available technology that could help assign blame in the event of an accident* and with that hanging over them, hopefully prod people to take more care.

    *or supply evidence of bad driving if a complaint is made – tho getting the info without an actual accident could be tricky

    Premier Icon GrahamS
    Subscriber

    I saw a Fiesta earlier being driven by a young male about 5 feet off the back of me.

    A few brake checks would have messed up his stats a bit πŸ˜€

    Premier Icon iainc
    Subscriber

    the black box sign reminds me of the small vans I often see, big UK companies, with a ‘speed limit 70mph’ sign on them. Why on earth do they have these when all vehicles are meant to limited to that as a maximum by law….

    mt
    Member

    “Bring on self driving cars we are simply not fit for purpose when it comes to driving.”

    This from page 1. I’d never thought of self driving cars from that point of view. Why not force all new cars to be self driving except for parking in your own drive. I’d be out on the road bike more often then, roads would be way safer. If you got a hit of a googlemobile you could sue em for millions.

    milky1980
    Member

    No brake testing, my bike was on the towbar rack otherwise it would have been tempting to switch the lights on and off quickly :mrgreen:

    iainc – legally required. Although I do have a little giggle when you see vans (usually Argos Delivery ones) with the sticker saying 52mph ‘for lowering emissions’ then notice they’re doing 60+. Methinks someone pulled the fuse 😐

    CountZero
    Member

    And you absolutely could tell tailgating from a black box, the constant dabbing on the brakes is a dead giveaway

    Hmmm, I’m pretty sure I could happily tailgate someone by driving smoothly, lifting off the throttle gently and just touching the brakes; many times I’ve followed drivers who’s brake lights keep flashing at every slight bend, even when large vehicles come towards them, yet I’ve managed to maintain exactly the same speed and distance from them without ever having touched my brakes, except to stop at lights.
    Go figure, as they say.

    milky1980
    Member

    Interesting little read about the Awareness Courses:

    BBC Journo Opinion Piece

    The bit about ‘Mobile phone use is seen a s a growing problem.’ raised an eyebrow.

    Premier Icon pocpoc
    Subscriber

    Right, need to vent and this thread seems the most appropriate!
    Two numptys in three days has peaked my already high concern for some people out there!
    1. Driving on a 50mph B-road, a generous distance behind the car in front, but not a gap big enough to pull out in to.
    Side road coming in from the left, big white panel van approaching the give way. I think he’s coming a bit fast but maybe he enjoys a bit of late braking. Then as we both approach the junction there is the slow, but quickening, realisation that he isn’t stopping!
    So I anchor all on, luckily nothing behind me to have to react. For once I have the time and reactions to get hard on the horn as well. He pulls out, I miss slamming in to the back of him by maybe a meter! 😯
    Then to cap it off, no apology or quick flash of the hazards to say sorry!
    Tit.

    2. This morning, long straight, wide B-road, central white lines, no other cars in sight except for the Fiesta behind me. I’m doing 56mph with cruise control on, he’s sat a decent distance behind matching my speed. All is going well.
    Then, in rear view mirror I notice the ambulance coming up behind us, lights flashing and approaching fast. So, assuming he has also seen it, I indicate to pull in and slow it down a bit to ensure a clean pass. Tit #2 hasn’t seen that big yellow thing with bright blue flashy lights bearing down on him, so he hesitates a bit then indicates and pulls out to overtake me! Just as the ambulance is right on him. So, ambulance has to brake and he’s overtaking me at a leisurely pace looking a bit confused while I’m trying to gesture to him that he’s an idiot and, again, the big yellow thing with flashy blue lights!
    Some people are completely in their own world. πŸ˜₯

    Ah, that feels better! πŸ˜†

    Premier Icon cinnamon_girl
    Subscriber

    Is there a minimum speed limit for a motorway?

    Got stuck behind a little old Fiat doing 40mph on the M3. 😯

    Premier Icon aracer
    Member

    cinnamon_girl wrote:

    Is there a minimum speed limit for a motorway?
    Got stuck behind a little old Fiat doing 40mph on the M3.

    Not as such – though I believe the police will pull people for careless driving if they’re driving slowly enough to be a hazard. I’m not sure 40mph is slow enough for that though – IIRC vehicles allowed on motorways have to be capable of at least 25mph.

    The bigger question though is where this single lane bit of the M3 is…

    Premier Icon cinnamon_girl
    Subscriber

    aracer – no, 3 lanes and glad it wasn’t on the 2 lane section! This was at the weekend. Quite surprised not to see plod nor the black Octavias.

    Premier Icon aracer
    Member

    pocpoc wrote:

    Then, in rear view mirror I notice the ambulance coming up behind us, lights flashing and approaching fast. So, assuming he has also seen it, I indicate to pull in and slow it down a bit to ensure a clean pass. Tit #2 hasn’t seen that big yellow thing with bright blue flashy lights bearing down on him, so he hesitates a bit then indicates and pulls out to overtake me! Just as the ambulance is right on him.

    Our walk to school crosses a major road at some traffic lights – quite often get emergency vehicles going through as it’s on the route between a reasonable size town and the hospital. I’ve given up being amazed at the people who are oblivious to ambulances behind them – have seen lots of overtaking of cars who have pulled in to let the ambulance past.

    Premier Icon aracer
    Member

    cinnamon_girl wrote:

    aracer – no, 3 lanes and glad it wasn’t on the 2 lane section! This was at the weekend. Quite surprised not to see plod nor the black Octavias.

    Ah, so how did you get stuck behind it?

    Premier Icon slowoldgit
    Member

    @ pocpoc -someone I know does a lot of blue-light driving. I asked about truck drivers, did they see him and react. He said – yes, every time, they check their mirrors every bend and then find a safe place where he can pass, indicate and ease over. But if there are five cars behind the truck, two will normally attempt to pull out in front of the big yellow and blue machine with all the lights going.

    I believe the solution is a gadget fitted to every car which responds to a blue flashing light visible in the mirror by sending an electric shock through the driver’s seat.

    M3 – maybe c_g was doing 56, and the other lanes were full of commuters tailgating at 80.

    Premier Icon cinnamon_girl
    Subscriber

    Ah, so how did you get stuck behind it?

    Was only joining motorway for one junction so it was easier to sit behind rather than do what everybody else does which is to cut in and slam on brakes. Motorway was busy so wanted to stay away from the idiots.

    Premier Icon simmy
    Subscriber

    I’ve lost count of the amount of times I have been overtaken when I’ve pulled over for a blue light. I’ve now taken to planning my place to stop but not pulling in until the vehicle behind has reacted.

    Doesn’t cost any time and is safer for blue lights.

    If you want to see impatience, put a Driving School roof box on your car.

    hora
    Member

    My ‘favourite’ is people who don’t like you overtaking them so once alongside they ‘punish’ you. Incredibly dangerous and very childish. I noted it’s not young or ‘nutter looking blokes but respectable males usually.

    I wonder how many deaths/crashes have happened because of this malice?

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