Listening to the WC commentary yesterday it sounded many riders were still there with their normal trade teams and mechanics which is understandable to keep a consisent team around you. Bec McConnell was on Insta saying she got no funding and thanked her sponsors for getting her there and she’s prob not the only one.

So is it about time riders were able to compete for ‘themselves’ at World/Olympic championships if they want – or does it still mean something to be representing a nation?

Personally, I’d have thought being asked to represent your country would be a fantastic honour and opportunity. Suspect it isn’t great for the actual rider though. I recall Laura Trott and her husband having a real complain about being asked to represent their country at the Commonwealth Games in Glasgow a few years back – they were complaining as they didn’t get paid for it and they thought they should.
Since then I’ve gone off them both as that isn’t the attitude to have from such a privileged position. I’m well aware that they have bills to pay but considering how much is done and provided for them to support their cycling, it is very wrong to publicly complain that they aren’t getting paid to ride (given that they don’t pay for anything other than tourists bits as their accommodation, meals and ride prep is all done for them).
I suspect I’m old fashioned as I’d consider it an honour but also suspect times have changed and it can be personally expensive, especially if the nation’s national body pull funding.

I’ve been racing at the 24hr World champs since 2010. Obviously a more niche event than the XCO or DH world champs. We are all self-funded, couple of mates, spouse, whatever as pit crew and thankfully no involvement whatsoever from BC. Most of us race for a team/club/sponsor but most teams/clubs are a bunch of mates and most sponsors help out with a bit of product, energy drinks, lights, bike parts whatever, very few big budget sponsors buying bikes and airline tickets for us.
So to that extent we are all totally used to racing for ourselves/team/club/sponsor rather than a national team (also, we just rock up, no need to qualify or be selectee like for XCO or DH)
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Having said that, it does give a lovely feeling, which is very hard to describe, to be part of the ‘British Team’ [edit, what he said up there ^] basically just all the Brits, Manx and a couple of Irishmen all camping together and helping each other out but it does feel special.
I think I would miss that feeling, its really hard to say what it is, but there is a certain atmosphere at a world champs, couple of dozen nations there and I think the national aspect is quite important. Not in bad way, I’m lucky enough to have friends from from all over the world now who do this sort of thing and we are all best mates off track.
I don’t get the same feeling at big running races where there isn’t that kind of national identity (commentary doesn’t mention the nationality, it’s not printed in the results, small stuff like that) I don’t run at the same level but do do races where there are multiple nationalities present and I think they lack a certain something by not even mentioning it.
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As an aside, I think it can be quite sport-dependant. We’ve just seen the Olympics, we were all cheering for the Brits most of the time, even in the sports we know nothing about,but it matters much less in, say motorsports, we all cheered for Russell yesterday, we know he’s Britiah even though he’s not part of any British team. Either model can work.
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The big, big problem with national teams is selection and BC having control over that and being complete arses most of the time, not sending full allocations of riders to major events, being extremely cliquey, that sort of thing. Thankfly not something we have to contend with in 24s

Looking at at the vast majority of the Olympics and Paralympics, I think representing your country is still huge.

LittleMissMC has represented British Gymnastics at European and World events with her display squad. While it’s not the same thing as representing GB in a competitive sense, she and her team mates are incredibly proud to wear the kit with “GBR” on the back, and I can tell you that as a parent, they always show off the new GBR kit in very dusty rooms.

I expect that it’s a case of finance. I’m sure most athletes would like to represent their country, but if they’re not given/funding/salary/accommodation etc then it’s a time and money loss to a pro athlete.

We can’t expect them to turn up and entertain for free. I think that at a national level someone needs to get the chequebook out of you want representation at global events.

. I recall Laura Trott and her husband having a real complain about being asked to represent their country at the Commonwealth Games in Glasgow a few years back – they were complaining as they didn’t get paid for it and they thought they should.

They need all the money they can get as they don’t get much to start with, for being in the top few riders in the world and it soon goes when they have to retire from it.
It sucks a bit when you choose a sport and become world number one but then end up working in a shop 10 years later while one of the many top football players earns in a couple of weeks what you have earned in your whole career!

I’ve raced the ISDE* a couple of times for the GB team in the past.
Our entry fees, hotel accommodation and fuel for the bikes got paid for.
We also got three sets of riding gear.
Everything else had to be paid for by us the riders.
Cost a fair bit both times with tyres, spares getting to Europe, getting two bikes in top condition.
Some of the bill was picked up by sponsors but it still cost me a fair chunk of cash.

Was kind of cool to ride in a GB shirt and represent my country though so seemed worth it.

* Classed as the Olympics of off road racing.

I did the age group triathlon thing for GB back in the day and was a guide for a blind paratriathlete that won the world champs. Did it feel good to pull on GB race kit and tracksuit….kind of. All self funded and the solo stuff felt a bit of a fraud as the pros were my age so I was was very much 2nd tier racing snake rather than a has been master/vet or up and coming yoof which might have had more credibility. The para triathlon was a bit odd – at the time the para triathletes got a bit of financial support for kit and travel (£3K pa) but the guides didn’t and I was expected to get myself there (to a different continent) on my own coin which was a tiny bit peeving as the national association dined out of the result in the press for months and had recruited me for the project. The athlete I was guiding did give me the ipod touch the BTA gave him as a prize for the athlete of the year however (FFS giving a blind dude an ipod touch as a prize and wondering why he wasn’t super chuffed) which was something I guess.

An aside – do you support someone just because they are the same nationality as you in whatever sport (cycling, tennis, athletics – whatever)? I’ve stopped these days and support the competitor on personality, the way they play their sport or the back story these days and nationality plays no part.

Cycling worlds do feel a bit of a farce, especially the road racing. Torn loyalties between your trade team mates and your national team mates you might hardly know. Riding on your trade bikes but funny jerseys.

The sooner people can compete without having to represent their country the better in my opinion. But them I’m not patriotic. The individual and their team does the work, not the country they live in.

Also it might stop people saying “we won”. No you didn’t. The individual won, or that team won. Not everyone who happens to live in the same country. Sigh. Its what I call football syndrome. If you want to win, go and compete. Don’t just attach yourself to someone else’s success or victory. They dont onow you exist.

Is it not very sport specific. Track will be paid and funded in day to day living by BC but DH is, afaik, not funded by BC. Why would you race for them if they are effectively dining out on your success? FMDracing looked to have kit that was half fmd and half GB, which given fox will have paid for it is not ungenerous.

Start by wondering if in a world of multinationals where borders only exist as a restriction to the common man, whether nations are outdated?

Then move on to the OP’s question.

An aside – do you support someone just because they are the same nationality as you in whatever sport (cycling, tennis, athletics – whatever)?

Yes and no. Olympics, where I hardly know who anyone is, I just cheer for GB. F1 where I know who everyone is I have my favourites and cheer for them based on many factors, least of which is where they are from (although it does tend to be more the native English-speakers, Norris, Riciardo for example, do they just come across better in English language interviews? But then also people like Gasly and Perez as I know their stories)

I gave up on supporting nations or teams years ago. I just like to see good competition.

You could argue that at its best supporting your national team demonstrates patriotism, at its worse nationalism.

We can’t expect them to turn up and entertain for free.

Interesting. Do the top flight sports people consider themselves entertainers or athletes?

The individual and their team does the work, not the country they live in.

Do you think Britain just happens to have a bunch of people who are very good at some sports because they try harder or have more natural talent? We do well in a number of sports where we invest heavily (average of £2M per Olympic medal IIRC) – most of that funding comes from the National Lottery as I understand it, so if people play the lottery I think they can actually claim to be a tiny part of the team that got them there.

I recall Laura Trott and her husband having a real complain about being asked to represent their country at the Commonwealth Games in Glasgow a few years back – they were complaining as they didn’t get paid

thats not quite how I remember it. My recollection was they raised legitimate questions about the funding of the home nations versus British team. They weren’t complaining about representing their country – perhaps we saw different versions of the same message. If the commonwealth matters (and if does to the public) then why aren’t athletes supported the same way as the olympics or worlds.

Do you think Britain just happens to have a bunch of people who are very good at some sports because they try harder or have more natural talent?

Yes and no. Its a case of having access to something and the cultural elements. Some countries just don’t participate in particular sports. Nothing wrong with that ar all. It’s just the current trend or tradition. It’s still the individual athlete and their team that put in the effort and training to win.

most of that funding comes from the National Lottery as I understand it, so if people play the lottery I think they can actually claim to be a tiny part of the team that got them there.

That’s ridiculous. So just because people contribute (in money) to something, they can claim to be part of the success in talent and skill? They had nothing to do with it other than some of the profits of something they bought going towards the sport. Even if they directly made a donation towards an individual athlete, they still didn’t do all the hard work and training to win the medal. The athlete and their team did. Not some random people who bought lottery tickets.

I think the “representing nation” thing is always positive for the athlete, and the funding issue isn’t anything new.

Mrs raced the 95 and 96 worlds (xc, also qualified for 95 dh but chose not to). 95 was funded (Hotel and food) but we had already booked a holiday over there – Eurocamp right next to the course 🙂

95 team kit was a free jersey (but pay for a sponsor logo) plus a sweatshirt (supplied by Pat Adams / RedBull and overprinted with BCF) and a pair of trackky bottoms. Think GB had 5 female elite in an entry of 175 riders (it was carnage for midfield riders but huge fun). So 3 GB riders in a much smaller field yesterday was a good ratio.

96 was again 5 elite women but only 4 funded places so she had to diy (to Australia… ). So total team input was a jersey and passing bottles. But she still wouldn’t have missed the opportunity and has zero grumbles.

Bit different now BC is well funded plus lottery etc, but non Olympic DH is still in pretty much the same situation 25 years later.

Inter-regional youth GB champs was this weekend. We know most of the local kids that went and it is immensely important to them (one of our kids did it previous years).

Lack of international funding sucks but the opportunity is still something they’ll cherish when old and broken.

mjsmke – I guess if you feel that strongly that the effort is 100% the athlete and nothing to do with the people in the country who support the athlete to enable to them to train full time, fund coaches, physios etc then you could always reject all that stuff and go it alone so that nobody else in the country could “claim” any allegiance to any success you might have. Otherwise, if your country supports you financially, it is not unreasonable that those who fund it (be that through general taxation or an “elective tax” like the lottery) might feel some degree of association/loyalty to your success other than you both happening to have been born in the same country. Obviously, some sports are not well funded, or funded at all, by the national grants. If local fundraising, membership of sport governing bodies etc helps to fund those – then I’d see no difference to those who back it feeling they are legitimate supporters. In fact, other than purely for the love of sport itself as a concept (which I think is rare), I’m not sure why anyone would “back” an athlete directly or indirectly if it wasn’t to philosophically ride on the coattails of their success.

That’s ridiculous. So just because people contribute (in money) to something, they can claim to be part of the success in talent and skill? They had nothing to do with it other than some of the profits of something they bought going towards the sport. Even if they directly made a donation towards an individual athlete, they still didn’t do all the hard work and training to win the medal. The athlete and their team did. Not some random people who bought lottery tickets.

If that’s the case, why were all the GB Olympic medal winners thanking the players of the national lottery?

Taught a GB climber and he said if he won it was paid for, second partial payment third and lower pay yourself. Galling as the blazers all were on expenses.

Interesting. Do the top flight sports people consider themselves entertainers or athletes?

I’d class all professional athletes as entertainers. You can be the best in the world at a sport but if not enough people are interested you won’t be doing it for a living.

Professional first, athlete second.

https://www.flandriabikes.com/history/chocolate-components-and-conspiracy

You could argue that at its best supporting your national team demonstrates patriotism, at its worse nationalism.

And fools on both sides of the argument can’t see the difference between the two.

Charly Wegelius has his views on what it means to be professional.

https://www.velonews.com/news/worlds-two-jersey-race-professional-interests-often-override-patriotism/

https://www.podiumcafe.com/book-corner/2013/7/22/4545530/domestique-by-charly-wegelius

The Breakaway by Nicole Cooke is worth reading

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Kw_4yDivtmkC&pg=PP199&lpg=PP199&dq=nicole+cooke+breakaway+wegelius&source=bl&ots=OofJlbSfXX&sig=ACfU3U2t2jhNt5mgzGknvMB5PCoTGWSN9A&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiA-qbTptjyAhXRoVwKHS4jCQoQ6AF6BAgaEAM#v=onepage&q=nicole%20cooke%20breakaway%20wegelius&f=false

I would like to think that given the U.K. riders mandated jerseys has sponsors logos on them that they were at least funded to be there

SS STU. How do you feel about the riders who could be going to the 6 but put their sponsors first? Seems to happen a bit more now. Don’t remember Geraint, Tonka et al doing it but suspect Derrick E did. (Dates me a bit) As a low level clubman rider as a younger chap I was always disapointed when people did this and didn’t ride. Of course I never had that problem. Always felt that if the ACU made it a cndition of a licence then the sponsors would have to live with it.