Apologies if this has been done.

Looking to change my car towards the end of this year. Currently have a Leon with a petrol 2.0 turbo. I changed jobs this year and I’m doing around 200 miles a week now, so I could benefit from increased MPG. Ive been looking at used mercs and beemers. Approx 3 years old. Is this a daft idea? Is the arse going to fall out of the residuals on these type of cars or is it all scaremongering?

The latter

Have you considered getting a small petrol – Ford Ecoboost type thing?

I think petrol will soon catch up with the out-of-favour diesel. And then no doubt the tables will turn again and petrol will suddenly be the root cause of all things evil.

Well if doing lot’s of miles then a diesel makes sense, but 200 miles a week isn’t really that high ~ 10-11,000 miles a year at most.

If you are only doing that sort of mileage the fuel savings are negligible so isn’t a good enough reason to choose diesel over petrol IMO.

Of course if your Leon eats petrol then changing to a more economical car might make sense, but there are plenty of petrols with good MPG these days.

200 miles a week isn’t worth buying a diesel for in my opinion.

What size car do you need ?

I’d take a call after the autumn budget. They have been pretty clear so far that they are exploring options for hitting diesels then, so should give a better guide as to whether the arse falling out the market is scaremongering or not.

https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/news/tax-insurance-and-warranties/2017-03/future-of-diesel-looks-bleak-as-government-considers-new-tax-treatment/

200 miles a week isn’t worth buying a diesel for in my opinion.

+1
I always thought c12k miles was the point it became more economical, that’s more than 200 per week. That said i don’t recall where i ever read it, so may be a nonsense figure!

The 200 miles a week is just commuting miles, not taking into account any family miles. So I’m probably on the cusp of what’s considered worthy of buying diesel. Having had 200+ bhp I’m not really keen to get into a 1.4 ecoboost revbox. I realise the modern engines have come on leaps and bounds, but I’m not in the market for a brand new car. My Leon averages 28 to the gallon, so anything that’s got grunt, is plush and does around 40 to the gallon would be good.

Not if it costs £2000 to swap for example. How long does that take to claw back?

I bought a C220d in October- 9 months old.
I like it. I’m averaging 54 mpg. It goes fast enough, it’s comfortable.
It won’t be the cheapest ever car to run, but just for once I fancied a slightly nice car.
I’ve just applied for the Crit’air stickers just-in-case.

Will you be driving into any of the cities imposing diesel charges? We just bought a petrol (1.6 eco boost) as we live in Southampton and charging is apparently coming in in 2020 second car is still a diesel but over 10years old so crossing fingers for some sort of scrappage scheme to offset the government uturn. Could be wrong though….

Depends if you actually like the car. I drive a big lazy diesel, I like how it drives and I like that it does 57mpg while being driven with no consideration of economy…

With residuals, a key question is, does it matter? Will you depend on that for the next purchase? Or will you be driving it til it’s worth pennies anyway.

I’m not really keen to get into a 1.4 ecoboost revbox

Take it you’ve never driven one of these things then? I have been in a VW 1.4 TSI and being turbo, it can be tuned to give lots of low down torque. It drives entirely decently without any high revving. In fact if you try and rag it that’s the only time you notice it’s only 85bhp.

And in a polo sized car, it makes a lot of sense. But for a family saloon/coupe, I’m not keen. Residuals are always a consideration. After four years, it’s good to know there’s a reasonable trade in value left

I am looking at a Mazda CX7. Out of production luxury (for us) car for 7k. I only do 5k miles a year so cost not an issue, but can’t work out what might happen to road tax. I pay 280 on a T5 at the moment but more would be horrible.

I think you need to look again at the latest small petrol engines. The latest Leon 1.4 FR, for example, has some impressive figures.

I would also recommend looking at the 1.4TFSI range of engines from the Volkswagen Audi Group.

I have an A3 Sportback with a 1.4 TFSI which puts out about 125bhp, brilliant on fuel and quick enough to keep me amused.

The turbo’s really help to make up for the displacement.

And in a polo sized car, it makes a lot of sense. But for a family saloon/coupe, I’m not keen.

Then you don’t get the 85bhp version, you get the 120 or the 140.

My point is that just because the engine is small doens’t mean you’ll have to thrash it. Modern technology has changed things. So basically, test drive all the options with an open mind, don’t discount based on what you think you know.

I live in a city (Southampton – albeit right on the edge) and have just bought another diesel.

I’m assuming they will do something similar to London & discount massively (90% isn’t it?) for residents in the city limits, so the thought of not buying one never really crossed my mind. My mileage warrants it anyway.

That said, I can count on one hand the amount of times I have been down into the city this year. It’s a total sh*t hole anyway, like most cities. I’m fortunate that I can jump on the UniLink bus which goes every 20 mins after a 3 minute walk. It costs £1.50 return.

It costs £1 for 30 mins to park in town anyway.

Approx 3 years old.

the risk is there. depreciation could bite you. I’d buy a diesel but at the £2k mark.

Lots of more efficient petrols in newer stuff.

Guys, diesels are being taxed for a reason. Jeez. Just get a petrol or a hybrid.

We bought a 320d last August, hoping they don’t rinse us on the tax too much, but TBF it never goes into a town so congestion changing isn’t an issue.

Filled it up last sunday, pottered around all week then drove to Cornwall from Cannock drove around down there, put £15 in at the services in case of traffic jams on the way back and still had more than a quarter of a tank left when we got home. Would have made it back without the top up in the end.

Wanted to get a petrol originally, but unless you’re buying new or small there’s not the choice available yet.

Guys, diesels are being taxed for a reason. Jeez. Just get a petrol or a hybrid.

Well revenue and because it’s currently trendy to bash diesels…

I’ve seen no convincing figures as to how a diesel creates more pollution on a 300 mile round trip than a 1.2 petrol but it’s sure as heck a lot nicer to drive. I’ve also seen no long term pollution figures over a car lifetime… and have yet to see the 1.2 turbo’s passing the 200k mark… before they get scrapped and create more pollution.

I rarely drive to town (usually cycle)… my mileage is sporadic… I might drive 400+ miles a week for months then less than 50 miles a week.. for months…but when I’m driving 400+ miles a week I’d rather not be in a tiny petrol

It should be common knowledge that diesels are not good for town driving or town pollution but many drivers rarely do any town driving…

winston – Member

Guys, diesels are being taxed for a reason

Sure, inner city pollution. If you’re buying a town car then that’s a major consideration but OP probably isn’t doing 200 miles a week in city centres.

If it was my decision to take:
– driving mainly lots of short journeys; no
– occasional long journeys but low annual mileage; no
– everything else….buy what you want

20k or more annual miles – big diesel is great.

I’ve seen no convincing figures as to how a diesel creates more pollution on a 300 mile round trip than a 1.2 petrol

Have you looked?

Google the NOx figures.

EDIT look here: http://www.nextgreencar.com/emissions/make-model/vw/golf/

Golf diesels now have SCR to reduce NOx, and small turbo engines now produce much more NOx, so the two are now close – with new cars. But the point about the emissions figures was that the diesels actually produce five or six times more NOx than these figures suggest.

Nox pollution is far worse in inner cities but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t also affect suburban areas as well. Its a massive issue and has been for many years – just because the government got it completely wrong over the last decade with the tax incentives doesn’t mean we can’t start taking action now – and that means EVERYONE who doesn’t have an alternative (there are no real alternatives for farmers, van drivers, long distance rural etc)

Just wanting one because its a bit nicer to drive is not a valid reason.

Just wanting one because its a bit nicer to drive is not a valid reason.

Of course it is.

That’s why 5l V8s aren’t illegal. They’re discouraged with tax, but if you want one you can pay for it.

Unless you’re a hippy, in which case you shouldnt have a car

The new smaller capacity petrols are surprisingly good.

I test drove a Golf GT with the 1.4 TFSI engine (140bhp) and was surprised at how good it was; I’d rather than the the small diesel engines making their way into bigger cars. A chap at work has a Passat with the 1.6 diesel engine and that’s pretty slow / tiresome.

The three cylinder in my other half’s MINI is a bloody good little engine too and is very good at motorway speeds (loads better than my previous Fiesta diesel).

When my current company car goes back, I’d like to look into a petrol again especially if the attitudes towards diesel remain negative.

Have you looked?

Google the NOx figures.

EDIT look here: http://www.nextgreencar.com/emissions/make-model/vw/golf/

Golf diesels now have SCR to reduce NOx, and small turbo engines now produce much more NOx, so the two are now close – with new cars. But the point about the emissions figures was that the diesels actually produce five or six times more NOx than these figures suggest.

I’ve looked but it’s far from clear….

diesels actually produce five or six times more NOx than these figures suggest

Isn’t clear… because it depends on a set of specific parameters…. you can’t say that across the board for driving on a motorway vs town vs ….

and NoX isn’t the be all and end all either … just on exhaust emissions and then there is the wider effect of mining and producing steel for the engines … and if we are talking about global pollution or local pollution…(and I have yet to see evidence that a 1.2 turbo petrol will last 200k or 500k… which almost any modern diesel will)

Even the production of the fuel itself… what is the environmental cost of diesel vs petrol … this itself is complex… some oil reservoirs produce something you can run a diesel engine on without cracking/processing and are less gas prone so don’t require flaring of gas…

According to STW’s oil industry experts and backed up by Googling, a lot of diesel is produced by cracking heavy oils which is rather energy intensive.

Of course it is.

That’s why 5l V8s aren’t illegal.

Depends what you mean by ‘valid’.

If you think valid means ‘because I want to’ and sod the consequences, then yes. But there are still consequences even if you care about them or not.

Its a valid reason for buying one IMO opinion. And if everyone had petrols again then Co2 would be an issue like it was before.

Frankly, I wouldn’t care if we did away with personal cars all together for transport purposes. Keep karting or trackdays for the people that really love it and make car rental schemes and public transport a viable option for more people.

Roll on decent alternative fuels though, petrol might be better than diesel, but it’s still crap.

I wouldn’t have any qualms about buying a second hand diesel from a ‘will it be any good’ point of view.

But, I’d be hanging fire for a year or two from a taxation point of view & see what the government is going to do now that they’ve decided the diesel cars they encouraged more & more people to buy because of their ‘green credentials’ aren’t all that green anymore.

And from the mileage you do, I am not sure a diesel would make the most sense….

Regarding the small fizzy turbo petrol engines – a bloke at work has just got rid of a Polo GT with the mid-power version engine in it, I think – sure he said it was 140 or 150bhp…..He reckoned he could average around 50mpg on his commute – mainly A-road dual carriageway, and the specs make it appear pretty pokey.
Performance-wise – I think it’s pretty similar to my 2 litre Ibiza diesel; that’s the 140 version. Fuel economy-wise my diesel beats the petrol, but not by a huge amount.

According to STW’s oil industry experts and backed up by Googling, a lot of diesel is produced by cracking heavy oils which is rather energy intensive.

But not all that is just using the supply…. I know of quite a few fields that produce crude that can be stuck straight in a diesel (a bit smoky but that can be taken out with very minimal processing)
A lot of this is actually not produced (A lot in the US is earmarked as strategic reserves) as it can basically be stuck straight in a tank….

However, if its energy intensive doing cracking is another complexity…it depends really how that energy is generated as to the environmental affect… if the energy comes from co-produced gas it can actually be really clean

A non oil example is aluminium…. Norway produce a fair bit but it’s generated from hydro…. (Actually by Norsk Hydro) so despite the huge amount of energy required it’s generated cleanly but aluminium from China made by burning coal is a completely different matter.

You can also argue (or not) that steel/aluminium produced by nuclear is also clean… or power from shale gas from fracking etc.

The point I’m trying to make is it’s way more complex than measuring NoX in urban driving

Depends what ‘it’ is in this instance. Yes, global environmental impact is complex to measure, because it’s so varied.

But the current concern is with urban NOx levels in the UK, which are pretty directly attributable to automotive NOx emissions.

I’ve seen no convincing figures as to how a diesel creates more pollution on a 300 mile round trip than a 1.2 petrol but it’s sure as heck a lot nicer to drive.

It’s sure as heck a diesel creates more pollution on a 300 mile round trip than a 1.2 petrol but I’ve seen no convincing figures as to how a diesel is a lot nicer to drive.

molgrips – Member

But the current concern is with urban NOx levels in the UK, which are pretty directly attributable to automotive NOx emissions.

But not attributable to the 300 mile round trip, since that by definition will be mostly non-urban.

Depends what ‘it’ is in this instance. Yes, global environmental impact is complex to measure, because it’s so varied.

But the current concern is with urban NOx levels in the UK, which are pretty directly attributable to automotive NOx emissions.

I agree but in answer to the context of should people feel bad about driving a diesel this years trend on Nox over CO2 vs next years on something else

e.g.

It’s sure as heck a diesel creates more pollution on a 300 mile round trip than a 1.2 petrol

Which is just false… but it doesn’t even mention which pollution…is this pollution in China and the overall Earths atmosphere or pollution at the side of a motorway… is it including CO2 and how is that weighted against NoX…. and where does that weighting come from…

but I’ve seen no convincing figures as to how a diesel is a lot nicer to drive

Because that is subjective… but from personal experience I can say my mothers Fiat 500 driving 300 miles you were worn out compared to driving my 3L V6 diesel that over the 300 miles will get 45-50 mpg (and produce less CO2 than the Fiat)…it will also burn a 1/2 litre less oil than her Fiat would take on that trip and who knows what pollution that is producing…

Because that is subjective… but from personal experience I can say my mothers Fiat 500 driving 300 miles you were worn out compared to driving my 3L V6 diesel that over the 300 miles

That’s a bit of a silly statement. Unless the 3l v6 was in another Fiat 500.

I’d bet a petrol engined Range Rover would be even more pleasant to travel in than your car. But that’s nothing to do with the fuel.