I might have been a teacher but ain’t thick

You are in some ways. You’re a nice bloke and an asset to the forum when you’re not trying to defend your pride! Just let it go, shrug, thank him for his contributions and let’s move on in what would be an interesting thread 🙂

You are in some ways.

Do go on, I’m intrigued.

Molgrips, you’ve been around here long enough to know that when anyone attacks the teaching profession I put on my Edukator hat. It’s not so much pride as living up to the Internet persona.

Edit: it’s really about playing the ball not the man, there was no need to make a personal attack here. I was was quite prepared for a link duel but instead an attempt was made to attack me rather than my contributions. “You know nothing” doesn’t wash, if I knew nothing I wouldn’t post. Remember i-Dave? He spent his time rubbishing other people’s credentials if they disagreed with him – he couldn’t even control his own weight yet claimed to have the absolute truth in all things diet.

Okay, I wasn’t going to post any more but I feel this warrants a response:

it’s really about playing the ball not the man, there was no need to make a personal attack here. I was was quite prepared for a link duel but instead an attempt was made to attack me rather than my contributions. “You know nothing” doesn’t wash, if I knew nothing I wouldn’t post.

I firstly apologise if I came across as attacking you. That not withstanding you were talking nonsense about something you clearly don’t fully understand. You were comparing apples with oranges and I was trying to correct you. I repeatedly explained the rationale behind my opinions and instead of reading with an open mind you chose to entrench yourself in your own views to the point you are now claiming I’m “pro-diesel anti-electric” which couldn’t be further from the truth. I was calling you out after I gave you the chance to engage rather than cock waving.

As I said, I’m absolutely pro-renewables however they are NOT the quick fix that so many people seem to think they are. They have to work and they have to be sustainable which a single source is not. Our infrastructure has to adapt and this will, unfortunately, take some time to do so. So saying things like every car should be electric in the next ten years is all well and good but nothing but a nice idea that practically isn’t going to happen without considerable cost and upheaval.

Now if you want to have a sensible discussion I’m all for it, I don’t claim to be a font of all knowledge but I do take umbrage when my professional and academic knowledge is called into question by people who’s own subject matter knowledge claims are tenuous at best.

As Molgrips says you’re a generally nice guy and usually have something interesting to say.

Ransos – as I said the CO2/CO thing was a typo, let it go.

Ransos – as I said the CO2/CO thing was a typo, let it go.

Do give over. You were quoting Euro standards in defence of your viewpoint, despite it being widely known that the test cycle is junk. You haven’t the humility to acknowledge this, then have the gall to state the following:

“I don’t claim to be a font of all knowledge but I do take umbrage when my professional and academic knowledge is called into question by people who’s own subject matter knowledge claims are tenuous at best.”

Sauce for the goose.

So saying things like every car should be electric in the next ten years is all well and good

Nobody has said that. It’s a transition. During that transition all the implications will be considered and strategies developed to make sure that demand doesn’t exceed supply and if ever the grid does go down it can be restarted. Just because the current system wouldn’t cope with everyone plugging in an electric car tomorrow doesn’t mean we shouldn’t plan for everyone plugging in an electric car in the future and develop the renewable generating capacity, the technology to make best use of that technology and make sure that the system can be started again in the unlikely event that mismanagement leads to failure.

Here in France we were warned at the start of a recent cold snap that unless we all played the game and reduced our demand at peak then some of us would be cut off to prevent the grid going down (four nuclear stations are/were off-line apparently). There were public service announcements on all the main news channels and it worked. Demand remained with in supply limits and no-one was cut off.

The electricity supply industry will evolve. If the government implements energy saving measures at the same time existing production may be enough. We consume 1700kWh a year (we’re not on gas), and produce 3400kWh. If everyone cuts their energy consumption by the amount we have there will be an energy surplus even if everyone has also bought an electric car.

The next time you meet one of your water industry colleagues grill them about out how dependent their supply network is on electricity, what proportion of UK energy is used to pump water around, how long water supply can be maintained without mains electricity before water is cut off and strategic stand pipes fitted, how many pumping stations and water works have generators, and how long the generating industry reckons it takes to get the grid back up even in a worst case. Your bosses are a lot more optimistic than you, Squirrelking. Every industry has contingency plans and some of them are common.

And by the same standards you were still somehow claiming petrol models are better

Because they are. There’s a simple reason diesels struggle with the Californian standards, it’s because whatever technology you add they are more polluting in terms of NOX and soot than a petrol engine using equivalent technology.

Nobody has said that. It’s a transition.

Hmm, I was originally answering this post:

short answer is there’s already enough capacity

and somewhere in between I seem to have got that in my head. So yeah, fair point.

Everyone having electric isn’t the answer either, at least not similar types. There simply aren’t enough resources to dedicate to one single answer so we need a diverse mix, hence my hydrogen turbine comments (not in cars but fuel cells are easy). Any solution needs to be sustainable.

As I said, it’s not the water supply that’s the issue it’s the electricity on the present system we have. And my bosses are very much not in the optimistic camp, this is a very real issue and not one that seems to be getting sorted any time soon. It’s not in our interest to stir this pot, we couldn’t supply a solution even if we wanted to. Our contingency (Scotland), at the moment, seems to be the Norway sub-sea link which in terms of security of supply is a terrible plan.

Everyone having electric isn’t the answer either, at least not similar types. There simply aren’t enough resources to dedicate to one single answer so we need a diverse mix, hence my hydrogen turbine comments (not in cars but fuel cells are easy). Any solution needs to be sustainable.

Yup.

<mod>
This all seems to have gone to custard and I’m not going to pick the bones out of a five page squabble at ten past midnight, I’m going to bed.

I’m closing this thread for now to prevent further unpleasantness until a) someone else from the team cares to deal with it tonight or b) it can be reviewed tomorrow and hopefully reopened.
</mod>

<mod>

Right.

Now that I’m awake I’ve removed a couple of posts and slapped a couple of wrists, so am reopening this.

I’ll remind all posters that they’re expected to discuss subjects in a civil manner. If any of us have to revisit this it’ll be with hammers.

</mod>

you know when you wish you had not opened your mouth……..yeah that.

So, a Zafira then? Should be just the job for what you’re after.

I’d forgotten this was about whether or not to buy a diesel car……
Buy what you think is best for you.

WTF has most of this page got to do with Ton buying a new car?

Only on STW could a car buying thread drift to such an extent that they end up arguing about the national grid FFS.

How about a thread on planting trees in Scotland 😉 ?

in readiness for picking my car up tomorrow, I have cycle commuted 120 miles this week………… it is all give and take after all.

I was going to suggest a Dacia Duster diesel, very happy with mine not too expensive. However given what happened ^………

So – @ghostlymachine – how ‘clean’ can we expect diesel to be in the near future?

in readiness for picking my car up tomorrow, I have cycle commuted 120 miles this week………… it is all give and take after all.

I’m making my contribution by keeping a diesel out of the hands of someone who’d do a really high mileage in it…

He got a zafira then? I’ve read unconfirmed reports he has??

Not sure, but it’s not far off before we are expecting the emissions targets for petrol and diesel to be pretty much identical, and really hard to reach. So we’ll probably be seeing a wholesale move to electric/PHEV/range extender vehicles in the next few years, from everybody, which is somewhat worrying.
And the Real Driving Emissions thing will make it all but impossible to play the tests, as there won’t really be a test!

We’re going to see petrols getting a lot cleaner too as they start introducing diesel type emissions tech where they can. Only issue is the rate electric systems are getting cheaper is that it might be cheaper and less risky to go hybrid/range extender than to double the cost of the engine with emissions stuff. And you can play with all sorts of stuff when you decouple the engine from the wheels.

All sorts of other issues around electric though, not least of which is the amount of cash needed to bring some countries up to any sort of position where proper plug in/DC/quick charging will be possible. I know huge areas of rural and semi-rural europe and most of the US it’s going to cost a fortune to do the upgrading. Unless you don’t mind really, really long charge times…….. They were talking about something like 25% of Europe and 40% something in the US, something to do with the difference in distribution network structure.

And from what i could see, most of the areas where decent charging is possible it’s mostly people who could walk/cycle/bus/train to work anyway. Quite lucky where i am, they upgraded everything about 5 years ago after some issues at the local distribution box thing, so i can get a proper charger in the garage. Next village over they’ll pretty much be charging on domestic sockets.

I have a 7 year old diesel Mazda that I got to replace the diesel Passat I’d had for 12 years (liked the car but ultimately need bits replaced every 6 weeks). When I bought the Mazda in 2013 I was asked whether I’d be using it much in the town as there is a known issue with dpf regens on it (it regens every 200 miles regardless whether the engine is warmed up or not). I thought the fact that I use it everyday a bit in for my work would not be an issue as I give it a good blast at the weekends. So basically the deal is that you keep the revs above 2000rpm to keep the exhaust gases hot enough to prevent the dpf from clogging. Edinburgh has now imposed a 20mph speed limit in the city….in order to keep the engine at 1800rpm I will have to drive in 1st gear (20mph at 1800rpm in 2nd!)around town (or will do once anyone pays any notice of the new limits).

Well we’ve just taken delivery of two new cars at work today (first of several dozen at my office) and they’re both petrol.

They are the first non specialist petrol engined vehicles we’ve been allocated in at least 15 years.

The tide is turning.

which is somewhat worrying.

In what way? Do you reckon the technology isn’t mature enough or the approach is wrong?

most of the areas where decent charging is possible it’s mostly people who could walk/cycle/bus/train to work anyway

True but that also depends on local public transport infrastructure which should be more of a priority anyway!

Who cares, there’s a plentiful supply of Mk4 diesel Golfs out there with excellent torque and power, 55mpg+ and cost less than 1k….my last two were £900 and £800 respectively….you can’t go wrong with that, in fact I might have to start stockpiling them soon!