There’s a reason nobody is really actively pushing for reunification. Joint EU membership and the Good Friday Agreement means It’s effectively been parked as an issue.

The Brexiteers seem to have no appreciation of this. A return to a de facto civil war in Ireland is something else they’re willing to endorse in pursuit of their ideological lunacy.

Nobody else in any part of Ireland, bar the men in balaclava’s, want to see a return to that. Ever.

The DUP must want to see it – they’re Brexiteers. Apart from that I agree with you.

There’s a really easy solution to the backstop: NI remains part of both UK and EU customs union. Customs checks between GB and NI occur at Holyhead and Stranraer.

The only reason this isn’t happening now is parliamentary arithmetic and DUP, who bizarrely consider themselves separate for abortion/gay rights etc, but joined up to UK for e.g food standards.

I suspect that if the arithmetic changes after a GE, this is the solution we’ll end up with. No one apart from a few nutters will complain. NI voted remain after all. There are other parts of the UK (e.g London, Scotland) who would bite your hand off for such a deal.

Errmmm – no they are not

Errm – yes they are.

Animal welfare and processing standards in the UK are higher than the base EU ones.

If you think relative animal welfare standards are the issue with the whole border/backstop arrangements then you’re delusional

Ironically, like the Brexit vote itself, the things at play here are emotive, not legalise.

It’ll be a brave man who tries to construct any kind of physical border between north and south now, but in the event of a hard/no deal Brexit it will have to happen

Because otherwise it’s like asking the U.K. to enforce border control everywhere apart from Hollyhead, where they should just wave everything through unchecked with no customs controls.

What do you think would happen?

Would these Brexit nutters agree to that?

Of course they bloody wouldn’t!

But that’s what they’re asking the E.U. to do. Leave a hole in their external border just to suit them

If you’re going to write Ireland as Gaeilge can you spell it correctly Éire not eire. two totally different words.

Also please find out what Éire is.

Reunification will certain happen it has always been a matter of time. The only hope is that reunification is achieved in a way that honours why the flags colours were chosen.

Maybe Ireland will join the UK.

What’s that you say – don’t be daft, that’s never going to happen?

Aye, said that about brexit and boris as prime minister. Granted, this would be even more bizarre, but they way things are going…

What’s that you say – don’t be daft, that’s never going to happen?

Have a read of 800years of history then come back.

Maybe Ireland will join the UK.

Of all the fevered brexit hallucinations, up to and including our current Home Sec threatening Ireland with another famine, this is the maddest delusion I have heard.

Maybe Ireland will join the UK.

Don’t be daft.

croe

Member
Maybe Ireland will join the UK.

What’s that you say – don’t be daft, that’s never going to happen?

Aye, said that about brexit and boris as prime minister. Granted, this would be even more bizarre, but they way things are going…

If we’re going to get silly, might as well suggest the eu27 should invade and occupy England! 😆

If we’re going to get silly, might as well suggest the eu27 should invade and occupy England!

Perish the thought! Can you imagine the paperwork that would be involved in that?

<div class=”bbp-reply-author”>dirk_pumpa
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OP… you have no clue.

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So enlighten me.

Shame the amount of effort we put into not getting along. Imagine that effort put towards creating a better UK or British isles

If the UK sits outside the EU then any marked difference in customs tariff regimes is likely to result in a recurrence of smuggling petrol, tobacco and drugs and a return of cross-border organised crime which in turn funded the purchase of weapons and the means to create mayhem. Brexiteer logic is to ignore this fact, plus the notion that we can somehow trade under WTO rules with ‘leaky’ borders is complete fantasy, like the technology that Boris thinks we can magic up to sort out the problem.

Why would we do that?

Doesn’t matter whether we would, it matters that we could.

Whether UK standards are better or worse than the EU, our standards won’t be recognised by the EU (unless, y’know, deal, tick tock) and that presents a problem.

However, at an event on Friday in Co Donegal, Varadkar warned that a no-deal Brexit could make some in Northern Ireland “question the union”. “People who you might describe as moderate nationalists or moderate Catholics, who were more or less happy with the status quo, will look more towards a united Ireland,” he said.

“And we will increasingly see liberal Protestants and liberal unionists starting to ask the question as to where they feel more at home: is it in a nationalist Britain that is talking about potentially reintroducing the death penalty, or something like that, or is it part of a European home and part of Ireland?”

If you’re going to write Ireland as Gaeilge can you spell it correctly Éire not eire. two totally different words.

Also please find out what Éire is.

That aimed at me?

Eire is how my computer spells it – not smart enough to put the accent in.

I was taught – and correct me if I am wrong – that the BBC way was the least offensive – refer to ” the island of ireland” for the whole landmass and either Eire ( with no accent cos my ‘puter is english) or ” The republic of Ireland” for the political entity that controls most of the landmass of the island of Ireland

so – I am not being defensive or argumentative – please educate me

Tj – you can easily add the accent to the e. It’s just press Alt Gr at the same time as the e. Now try harder and stop trolling.

It’s interesting reading this in that so many of you Scottish guys haven’t got a bleeding clue despite being closer to the problems there than the English. With sectarian shite in several of your cities you are still ignorant of many things.

Some of the comments on this thread are laughable. Feckless Morons aplenty……

This for TJ’s benefit, with apologies to the OP for slight derailment…

To be fair, I have no problem with people not using the fada (that accent, literal meaning “long” – it broadens the vowel sound so e becomes “ay” instead of “eh”, a becomes “aw” etc). I have a fada in my name and no one really uses it – doesn’t bother me. I live in the U.K. and accents were (mostly) sensibly ditched a long time ago.

I think anyone criticising you for not spelling Éire correctly is being a bit over-sensitive. Irish people’s view on British people’s usage of “Éire” is difficult to explain as it’s so full of context and nuance. It’s a devil to put down in black and white. If I’m honest, it’s become a bit of a trigger 😀 word for me in the last couple of years as it seems to have become a word I hear or read daily in reference to Ireland because a lot of ignorant people (including many of our Tory friends on here, some who we cannot name…) now have an opinion on Ireland. Because, y’know, Brexit. But, opinions are like arseholes etc.

You’re in the U.K., speaking English. Just call it “Ireland.” I find it’s generally used by a certain type of person. I’m not saying everyone using it is being pejorative. But, generally, Irish people (not all of them of course) find it a bit on the condescending side. Yes, we know it’s on our passports, stamps, etc. but almost nobody in Ireland would say “I’m from Éire” unless they were saying it in Gaelic, in which case the form “Éirinn” would be used – something like “Is as Éirinn mé”, I think. The rules for why it changes could take a year to explain. 😀

There’s a certain way I get asked where I’m from sometimes when I’m chatting with people – it’ll be “So I can hear an Irish accent…are you from the south?” I know exactly what he or she means but there’s often a hidden context as to how they may view the island. I just do an inner sigh, and say “yes.” There’s no point correcting some people. That’s not to say I’m offended, per se. But again, it’s a bit of a micro-trigger.

So for your benefit TJ, as I realise you wouldn’t unnecessarily “offend” people, I’d avoid using “Éire” when referring to Ireland while speaking or writing in English. In the same way that you wouldn’t refer to Germany as Deutschland if you were chatting to a German person here. It’s pretty safe to assume, that in context, most people will realise you’re referring to RoI if you say “Ireland.” Just use “Northern Ireland” if you need to refer to the six counties.

Apologies again, that went on a bit.

DD – don’t apologise.

People on here spend many many hours on the internet developing ninja level skills in 37-622 ERTRO so 5 seconds on the web to use the correct terms is nothing.

DD, thanks for the insight into the nuances of Irish terminology delivered with honesty and good grace. I dont know how anyone who is not Irish is supposed to find out from the internet, some of the subtleties you describe.

People have stated opinions here but have clearly highlighted that they not close enough to the situation to be clear on all the facts.

I dont think a description as Feckless Morons is particularly helpful from someone that clearly got out of bed on the wrong side this morning.

People are showing an interest in politics in Ireland and NI despite the daily goings on in the Irish parliament not being every day news where we live. Also some elected MP’s not taking seats at Westminster and an impasse preventing any political leadership at Stormont also are not helping to educate us on some of the finer points on what motivates people politically over the Irish Sea.

Elshalimo, you have said very little that is insightful. Now might be a good time to start.

It’s called the Free State.

😉☘️🇨🇮🎣

It’s called the Free State

That was how my Northern Irish Catholic grandparents referred to it

In all seriousness, this is an excellent article which explains the “word wars” down through the years.

https://www.these-islands.co.uk/publications/i279/ireland_the_politics_of_nomenclature.aspx

But that’s what they’re asking the E.U. to do. Leave a hole in their external border just to suit them

Well to be fair that isn’t as outrageous expectation as it might seem on the face of it. It’s not like it’s a normal boarder between any other country.It’s with an ex-member state and an island state for that matter so a bit more secure than any other. The day after Brexit nothing material will have changed…our standards and systems will still be aligned and in place and will be for the foreseeable after Brexit, so no reason why things can’t continue as normal. It is perfectly within the gift of he EU to be flexible on this IF the political will was there…and I’m sure it is. The difference is the EU are doing a proper job of approaching these negotiations in the spirit of what a true negotiation is, whereas we seem to be tripping up over ourselves with our infighting and people spending every effort to scupper Brexit altogether rather than working to get the best deal possible and ultimately completely screwing up any chances of executing a negotiation strategy with any credibility in the eyes of the EU. And the EU are exploiting that to their benefit. They are being ruthless as we should be.

In any negotiation there is always an element of calling the other sides bluff to see who blinks first, even if it means pushing for a position or outcome that isn’t the most desirable for you. the EU are doing it to us…everything is on the table as far as they’re concerned..every threat, every opportunity to get us over a barrel and we’re just not coming to the party. Efforts from remainers to scupper Brexit is actually making a no deal situation more likely…if they just played an intelligent game and supported the negotiation for a good deal then we might just get a good deal, which would ultimately keep us more aligned to the EU and make it easier for us to re-join the EU in the future compared to coming from a position of a no-deal Brexit.

Dammit. I thought I was in safe territory by using Republuc of Ireland . Now I’m not so sure. Hardly surprising so many folk get it wrong though after reading that. Thanks.

The day after Brexit nothing material will have changed…our standards and systems will still be aligned and in place and will be for the foreseeable after Brexit, so no reason why things can’t continue as normal.

You have just described the Withdrawal Agreement and Irish Backstop.

Me too scotroutes!

It is perfectly within the gift of he EU to be flexible on this IF the political will was there…and I’m sure it is.

simply wrong – against EU law and of course would mean under trading rules we would have to offer tariff free access for every country to UK markets.

Interesting article Crimsondynamo

Did you know that during WW2 Churchill offered Northern Ireland to Valera, in return for the use of Irish ports to fight the U Boats

Just to expand on DD a fraction Ulster does not equal NI.

The day after Brexit nothing material will have changed…our standards and systems will still be aligned and in place and will be for the foreseeable after Brexit, so no reason why things can’t continue as normal

I’m afraid that thinking that this lot of far-right, free-market ideologues don’t intend to tear up a job lot of regulations the second we’re out of the EU is hopelessly naive

That’s their holy grail. Its the whole reason they’re so determined to do this. Its an article of faith to these headbangers. The EU is all that prevented them from doing it already. Regulatory alignment with the EU won’t last 5 minutes once we’re out. The EU knows this full-well, which is why they won’t budge on the backstop.

The main reason that the ERG voted against Mays deal was that it involved continued regulatory alignment. If you’re going to do that, that destroys the whole point of leaving in the first place. They want to be free of EU regulation so they can torch them in a race to the bottom. That’s the whole point of Brexit for them. Bye-bye workers rights. Bye-bye food standards. Bye-bye environmental controls. All that will be history the second we’re out.

So an open border would then be a back door into Europe for GM crops, hormone-injected beef, chlorine-washed chicken, money laundering, tax evasion and all manner of other joys that we in the UK will have to look forward too once ‘free of the shackles’ of the EU. An open, porous 300-mile-long border would quickly become the wild west

Funnily enough I’ve been wondering about Iris reunification in a Brexit context but more from the angle of whether it’s possible that it could be forced on the UK (as a result of posting in the monsterous EU referendum thread).

I’m not great on politics, but did post on the EU Referendum thread as mentioned and, if I understood the answers to my posts regarding the backstop and ‘No Deal’ correctly, then a No Deal Brexit isn’t a legal option, the Withdrawal Agreement prohibits a hard border in NI under EU law whilst it’s also prohibited under international law under the Good Friday Agreement. However if Boris goes down the No Deal route then a hard border is inevitable as the EU wouldn’t sanction and open border between itself and a non-EU state; we’d be left as a rogue state and something of a pariah.

In the meantime the UK Government and the DUP have rather taken their eye of the ball as far as NI is concerned; the Power Sharing Executive has been down for some years, ostensibly as Sien Feinn won’t work with Arlene Foster; she on the other hand has been playing power politics in Westminster propping up the Tories and this unholy alliance has ignored NI, during which time there have been shootings, at least one bombing and the murder of Lyra McKee.

I see the DUP accepting a hard border as it effectively annexes NI further binding it closer to the UK and whilst removing it from Ireland, but I can’t see the Republicans accepting it and I really can see it as the flash point that re-ignites the troubles fully. If this were to happen I could see reunification being pushed as a means to resolve this by other countries prior to dealing with the rebel UK, not least the USA whose Speaker of the House, Nancy Pelosi has already stated that the UK won’t get a favourable trade deal with the US if the Good Friday Agreement is compromised.

I’m probably being politically naive but the NI issues has the potential to really cause trouble.

It hadn’t occured to me that perhaps Ireland wouldn’t want NI back but it would leave them dealing with the inevitable Loyalist terrorism problem

Did you know that during WW2 Churchill offered Northern Ireland to Valera, in return for the use of Irish ports to fight the U Boats

What would the Swiss hair specialists want with NI?

RoI has a higher GDP per capita than UK, but I suspect they’d find the net expenditure of taking on NI to be financially crippling. Not saying it couldn’t be done, but UK would have to hand over a big dowry.

Yup. I don’t know why this isn’t talked about more: the UK spends a hefty wedge on NI and the RoI simply doesn’t have the resources to sustain it without making its population considerably worse off.

What would the Swiss hair specialists want with NI?

😂

As well as a UK dowry, the EU would certainly help out. Ireland has been a very good investment. A classic case of a net beneficiary developing to become a net contributor, which is how it’s meant to work out.

I’ve seen this assumption that the uk would have to fund reunification mentioned in various places and find it ridiculous. The population vote to leave one union to join another and expect the paid to do so. That would be like the uk going to the eu and saying “we’ve voted to leave and pay us a big wedge of cash the make sure we are not impacted financially”. Funnily enough the exact opposite is happening where the eu want paid for the impact to them for a decision that was not theirs.
The idea of moderates switching could well be true but it will be based on weighing up which benefits them the most as the loss of access to the nhs etc might outweigh being in the eu. As someone who would be part of any vote I would hope I would take all points into consideration rather the traditional voting lines.
Ultimately people need to understand that a vote for a ui would be agreeing to join that country and abide by its rules. Not some halfway house where you keep the best parts of both. Sounds familiar doesn’t it (brexit).
*note: my use of lowercase mid sentence is laziness and should not be interpreted as some political meanings.

It looks like Sinn Fein are pushing for a vote in response to a no deal Brexit:-

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/jul/31/sinn-fein-border-poll-ireland-unity-must-follow-no-deal-brexit