Bez – ebikes ar dangerous if you are dutch and over 65 however – maybe thats a win? I am not sure

I presume chevy goes out on bike rides without a bike as he’s so concerned about how fit he thinks he is.
I couldn’t give a flying **** about how fit or unfit I am.
I just like the buzz of riding, always have done and hopefully always will.

Ebikes/non Ebikes love them all.
Just seems the same old same old that some people don’t like anything new.

OK @chiefgrooveguru. Been on a cherry pick hunt have you?

In reverse order of the articles you posted:

First: based on an online survey measuring minutes on the bike – not fitness gains. – so false equivalence, since minutes on an e-bike aren’t the same as minutes on a bike.

And in that very study they say this “e-biking being an active mode, positive health impacts from physical activity can be expected, but net impacts may differ from conventional bicycling due to lower intensity of activity< as well as potentially different travel patterns as shown below.

Few studies have associated e-biking directly with health outcomes“”

…underwhelming eh? Lets carry on…

Lets have a look at the second:
Ah – broken link. (So unlikely you read it beyond a google cherry-pick search). But I found it – and it was based on 30 totally untrained obese volunteers. So a tiny not-relevant sample of a group of people who never move. Any activity would produce meaningful change – so again not relevant to this discussion (and not statistically significant).

Third: Again, three hundred people across 17 studies – and they say this:
“There was moderate evidence that e-cycling provided physical activity of at least moderate intensity, which was lower than the intensity elicited during conventional cycling, but higher than that during walking. There was also moderate evidence that e-cycling can improve cardiorespiratory fitness in physically inactive individuals. Evidence of the impact of e-cycling on metabolic and psychological health outcomes was inconclusive. Longitudinal evidence was compromised by weak study design and quality”
Only moderate evidence that ebikes might help the health of physically inactive individuals.

It pays to read your links before posting them old bean 🙂

I’ll counter that “reasearch” with this study (again)..

And as I CBA retyping – I’ll copy paste: In that study: “Transport Mode Choice and Body Mass Index – Cross sectional and Longitudinal evidence from a European-Wide Study” – in terms of BMI benefits the choice comes out like this, in order:
1) Riders of normal bikes.
2) Walking to work.
3) Bus/public transport (inc. walking to the bus stop/station)
4) Motorbikes.
5) e-bikes
6) Cars
Basically, because you don’t have to push hard on the pedals whilst commuting you’re probably better off walking to the bus stop. (In health terms). Study was based on 10,722 participants (just for those who will discount it out of hand because they don’t like the message).

Of course, for *enjoyment* of your commute that’s a totally different kettle of fish. 🙂

“Transport Mode Choice and Body Mass Index – Cross sectional and Longitudinal evidence from a European-Wide Study” – in terms of BMI benefits…”

Any study which analyses fitness and health based on BMI has been conducted by fools with no real understanding of fitness. Utterly moronic.

Also, can anyone think of any reason why riding a motorbike is better for your health than an ebike? I’ve commuted the same route on both.

It’s utterly laughable. Probably made by people related to the economists who think Brexit will be a good thing…

@chevychase go and ride some ebikes and stop being such a blinkered cretin.

Funny @chiefgrooveguru – knew BMI would be the next thing you’d have a pop at (because you’ve nothing else against a well-designed 10000+ people study by actual scientists). People who have a pop at BMI as a measure are denialist morons with no real understanding of population-level monitoring and it’s incredibly useful accuracy. 🙂

I’ve ridden them. They’re great fun indeed. But 5 hours out on my bike makes me sweat like a bitch because I’m doing it under my own steam. 5 hours out on an ebike means I’m out of battery and the only real effort I’ve had to put in is pushing the bastard back.

But indeed they’re fun. If I can easily concede that, why can’t you just concede the fitness point to the actual (real) evidence?

(I think I’ve already answered that a few posts ago)

EBikes are great because it turns a fairly average rider (myself) into someone who can get up hills faster than the KOM holders on regular bikes! Without even trying hard! Without relying on a tail wind!

I’ve hired a few but I still haven’t bought one yet as the tech is still improving fast, I can’t wait until I own one though.
500 watt hours just isn’t enough. That’s why I’ve held back.
Already we’re seeing big improvement in battery range with the 2020 models.

However E-Mountain Bike life can’t be that easy, technical sections are just as hard, the downhills can still be brutal and they must be a complex machine to maintain.

It’s quite incredible that none of the 21 authors of that paper pointed out that BMI is the wrong metric to use for assessment of health. Even hip to waist ratios are more useful, but aerobic tests, strength tests and body fat analysis are what’s really needed. Just a simple grip strength test is a better indicator of health than BMI.

Furthermore the statistical analysis seems to show we have a classic garbage in = garbage out situation with regard to the ebike users. Really poor. If the focus had been on assessing ebike’s health benefits any peer review would have rejected the paper.

@chevychase go and ride some ebikes and stop being such a blinkered cretin.

E-bike thread become the new brexit thread. 🙄🙄

“But 5 hours out on my bike makes me sweat like a bitch because I’m doing it under my own steam. 5 hours out on an ebike means I’m out of battery and the only real effort I’ve had to put in is pushing the bastard back.”

You’re weird. All that happens when I ride an ebike is I go further and faster with the power on or work harder with the power off. I’m also one of those ebikers who doesn’t care about lifting it over gates, it’s the same weight as my six year old daughter and she isn’t exactly hard to pick up.

My BMI is 27 and it’s taken a fair bit of effort to get it UP to there. Overall I’m fitter than I’ve ever been.

BMI is a good measure for analysing the obesity of a large population. As soon as you apply it to individuals or small groups, which is what’s happening with this study once you break it down, then it fails. If you want to use BMI to measure health you need to compensate by also measuring wrist or ankle size to assess skeletal structure and natural muscle mass, and that’s ignoring those with hobbies or jobs that build strength.

Just to recap, sorry, they have walk mode? Seriously?

😄

I’m not convinced they are building the eco-friendly athletes of the future.

Riding E Bikes up hill is an absolute piece of p**s with turbo mode on.
But Christ, lifting it over those fences/styles/locked gates is HARD.
Lifting a big heavy awkward object over a fence that could potentially be 5 foot high and putting it down on the other side puts the back, shoulders, arms and neck in an awkward position while under tension and load.

Riding one with the motor off is HARD as well on any sort of incline! It’s not just the weight, it feels like there is additional power loss as well.

“Just to recap, sorry, they have walk mode? Seriously?”

Walk mode is seriously useful at getting yourself out of trouble at times.
I went out exploring on one and hit the most horrendous uphill piece of trail imaginable. Super Steep, narrow, bendy lumpy, No room to pedal. If it wasn’t for walk mode, what a job that would have been trying to push a big 24kg EMTB up that!

Also these things can even wheel themselves up steep staircases in walk mode.
Compare that to the usual struggle I see daily of people lugging regular bikes up staircases.

I was really uplifted after reading that BBC piece. Reminded me of the power of cycling, and why I ride a bike.

I’m a luddite, and never considered ‘pedalelecs’ as a positive development, but this article brought home to me the opportunities that they offer.

Shame some people seemingly only want to detract. It’s really sad if people still want to detract after having actually read the article. What’s not to endorse?

Physically, mentally and environmentally, cycling or e-biking is better than doing nothing or getting the bus.

PS if anyone (!) was to have a guilty conscience about riding the push up track at Aston Hill, there’s the XC loop off to the right that goes straight back to the top and is fully ‘legit’. Both are equally exhausting in my (non assisted) experience 😀

Riding one with the motor off is HARD as well on any sort of incline! It’s not just the weight, it feels like there is additional power loss as well.

depends on the type – shimano motor has almost no extra drag – just the drag of a freewheel. Bosch has the extra drag of a reduction gear when pedaling power off

Just to recap, sorry, they have walk mode? Seriously?

Yep, too posh to push, mate. When their chubby little legs get tired of being pushed round in circles by the pedals, they can hop off, engage walk mode and the bike trundles along by itself, with just a light steering touch from their soft, girly hands…

But 5 hours out on my bike makes me sweat like a bitch because I’m doing it under my own steam. 5 hours out on an ebike….

Great. But how would the effort of 5 hours on an ebike compare to doing the same journey on a train, or in a car, or on a motorbike ?

Please don’t tell me you are blinkered enough to believe the ebike is the least healthy alternative Of the four 🙄

Bosch has the extra drag of a reduction gear when pedaling power off

AFAIK the new 2020 Bosch motors have zero drag now

PS if anyone (!) was to have a guilty conscience about riding the push up track at Aston Hill, there’s the XC loop off to the right that goes straight back to the top and is fully ‘legit’. Both are equally exhausting in my (non assisted) experience 😀

Quite agree. Despite visiting aston for 8 years or so I have never ridden the xc trail back up until I got an ebike this year. Not that I feel guilty about riding the path back up, just try not be be a dick whilst doing it.
Double the runs in half the time. Whats not to like?

If your only method of commuting around town is a bike and you have hills or a long way to go, then an ebike makes a lot of sense. One of our friends bought one as she uses her bike to take her son to school and back. It makes her commute easier and faster, so a win for her.

They are not for me. They do, however, give me a good excuse to go faster and use them as a cheeky tow. Yes, some are used by idiots, but a lot of them are just being used by people trying to get to work.

I want an eMTB. Which should I get?

My shortlist prioritises suspension components with Shimano Steps favoured for local servicing:
– Propain ekano
– Commencal meta power
– YT Decoy

I’m open to others. I expect LSC adjustment on both fork and shock. Riding will be technical, steep, gnarly, fast. Budget of £4k. £5k is a stretch and I’d rather not go there.

Iainc – no longer the 20t chainring that has a epicyclic gear?

Electric MTB’s in Turbo mode to me mean 30% more distance in the same time on a big ride in the Peaks or Pennines. (Compared to a regular MTB)
It means an average speed of 20KPH in Hilly Off Road terrain vs my normal average on a regular MTB of 13 or 14kph.
Or 7 DH runs to every 4/5 (If its Ride-up)
Or 7 DH runs to every 2 (If the E is riding up a Push-Up!!)

What is there not to like about them ??? Are they the best thing to happen to mountain biking in many years ??

Are they better for the climate than an average uplift service? Or is that canceled out by the bikewagon to get to the trails?

By far the most destructive thing about mountain biking is the amount of Driving people do to get to and from the rides.

It’s not uncommon for people around where I live (Greater Manchester) to drive as far as the Lake District, Wales or Cannock just for one ride!!