https://www.instagram.com/p/COxcClzK4xM/?hl=en

And Cotics have aluminium rear ends.

Partial aluminium. The seat stays are steel and the chainstays aluminium.

@Daver27 sorry only just caught up on the thread. You can give me a shout on 0333 444 0629 whenever suits you 🙂

I’ve seen it too and thought much the same as HH above.

This sentence has been written by someone who knows how to spell kinematic but not what it means. In the last three seasons of men’s WC DH, 2020 had single pivots coming 1st and 5th, 2019 had single pivots coming 2nd and 4th and 2018 had single pivots coming 1st and 2nd. 40% of the top five for the last three years.

With all due respect I’d suggest you do some research. If you want the bike to do more than one thing well, i.e. plummet downhill, such as pedal well back up or along, then restricting the axle path and shock actuation with a single pivot massively compromises the bike.

@timber @HoratioHufnagel now you have posted it I feel justified in opening up on why I made this post.

Its an odd choice of words don’t you think? broken spoke and then says “so long as you didn’t zoom in on the shock or the wear on the yoke” its enough to make shy away from buying one. When someone specifically states not to focus on something that has wear, it says its not accident damage and they don’t want it pointed out.

Real shame as I have a Moxie MX3 and it is bloody amazing, hands down my favourite bike in 35 years of riding, and that from someone who has been steadfastly on the side of full sus since the early 90s.

As I said, it could be totally innocent and not actually be a problem with the bike, hence I did not want to tar them with any bad press, but its on Instagram and in the public domain, so hey ho. Its enough for me to move along and find an alternative, been there and done that with bikes eating shocks (Empire Mx6 Evo) and do not want to go down that path again if there is even a hint of that potentially expensive problem down the line.

“With all due respect I’d suggest you do some research. If you want the bike to do more than one thing well, i.e. plummet downhill, such as pedal well back up or along, then restricting the axle path and shock actuation with a single pivot massively compromises the bike.”

Ha! If you want a bike to pedal well uphill then it’s just a case of positioning the instant centre to get sufficient anti-squat. This is easily achievable on a single pivot bike.

And regarding shock actuation, it’s easily possible for a single pivot to achieve a leverage curve matching multi-pivot designs, as shown by Evil, Commencal, Cotic, Saracen, Forbidden, Trek, etc etc.

Not quite sure why you’re claiming axle path is an issue when high single pivots have some of the best axle paths (mostly rearwards) and many four bar bikes have some of the worst (mostly forwards).

I wouldn’t write off buying that particular frame myself. There is a parts shortage at the moment shock could be an old one they had lying around, the yoke could be prototype or for a different size frame (happens occasionally with Commencal which causes rub on smaller frames – fixed under warranty pretty quick)

I wouldn’t write off buying that particular frame myself. There is a parts shortage at the moment shock could be an old one they had lying around, the yoke could be prototype or for a different size frame (happens occasionally with Commencal which causes rub on smaller frames – fixed under warranty pretty quick)

I’m not for one second saying anyone should and as i’ve said and you mention here it could just be that. but… its enough to put me off personally (once bitten twice shy), which is a shame as its a wonderful looking thing that ticks all the boxes for me. I even had it in the basket and was an hour away from buying it.

Ha! If you want a bike to pedal well uphill then it’s just a case of positioning the instant centre to get sufficient anti-squat. This is easily achievable on a single pivot bike.

Ha! Think about it. What happens to everything else when you move the instant centre in that way. What do you compromise? On a single pivot the instant centre is fixed. Would in not be better to have control over the instant centre through the travel in a true 4 bar?

And regarding shock actuation, it’s easily possible for a single pivot to achieve a leverage curve matching multi-pivot designs, as shown by Evil, Commencal, Cotic, Saracen, Forbidden, Trek, etc etc.

Yep, but again fixed through the travel.

Not quite sure why you’re claiming axle path is an issue when high single pivots have some of the best axle paths (mostly rearwards) and many four bar bikes have some of the worst (mostly forwards).

Again, the axle path can be tuned through travel on a true 4 bar.

Whether your average rider notices all this or not, or values the simplicity and stiffness of a single pivot bike over the complexity of a multi pivot bike is down to the individual.

This debate is as old as the hills, let’s agree to disagree.

“ Would in not be better to have control over the instant centre through the travel in a true 4 bar?”

It can be beneficial but in a typical 4 bar the anti-squat, anti-rise, axle path, kickback and leverage curve all interact so you can’t change anything independently. With a single pivot and a linkage to the shock then you can have independence of leverage rate and anti-squat/rise and then adding an idler separates out kickback, whilst a floating brake mount or concentric rear pivot isolates brake anti-rise.

“ Yep, but again fixed through the travel.”

No, this is completely incorrect.

“ Again, the axle path can be tuned through travel on a true 4 bar.”

Not by very much – if the instant centre is way forwards then it’s vertical. If it’s rearwards then it has more longitudinal movement. If it’s high then that movement is more rearwards, if it’s low then it’s more forwards.

With the long links of typical four bar designs the IC can’t move all that much. With short link designs it moves more.

Wzzzzz, how about winning countless xc world cups? Is that more than just plummet downhill? How many vpp bikes have won an xco race recently?

To follow up on the original part of this thread, not whatever ^ is…

One Catflap Grey AM9 in Large ordered after a great chat with Ben from Bird, thanks @Benpinnick, much appreciated

Sweet – you’re going to love it I’m sure 💪

Are people still writing off single pivots like it’s the 1990s? Weird.

Love the “Catflap Grey” colour name!