😆

Plans have been lodged for a purpose-built mountain bike chairlift in the Scottish Borders.

Action group AIMUp has applied for outline planning permission to provide the rail facility.

It has been estimated it would cost £5m to construct and provide more than 100 jobs for the area.

The lift would be based at Innerleithen in Peeblesshire where, at the moment, riders have to push their bikes uphill before using its downhill courses.

The equipment, which resembles a fairground rollercoaster, can convey up to 1,200 people an hour up the steep wooded slopes near Traquair to the courses which are acknowledged as among the most challenging in Europe.

AIMUp – which stands for Action on the Innerleithen Mechanical Uplift – wants to create a 21st century facility for mountain bikers of all abilities which includes the chairlift, bike park and visitor attractions.

It believes the service would be a major boost to the sport in the Tweed Valley which attracts thousands of mountain bikers.
‘Overtures for funding’

AIMUp comprises local businesses, mountain bikers and residents of Innerleithen, Traquair, Walkerburn and Cardrona who believe the chairlift would be a huge boost to visitor numbers.

If outline consent is granted, the search for funding would then begin but planning permission is being seen as a major stepping stone.

AIMUp treasurer Deirdre Latimer said: “Obtaining outline planning consent and without too much delay is absolutely essential to turning this dream into a reality.

“With the consent in place we can begin in earnest our overtures for funding.”

The application is likely to be considered by planners at Scottish Borders Council this autumn.

Borders MSP Jim Hume said: “The Borders is renowned for mountain biking and the project for a mechanical uplift at Innerleithen led by AIMUp could open up significant economic opportunities.”

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-south-scotland-18439669

Oh yay we haven’t done this one for aaaaages! 😀

All for its intro, but:

It has been estimated it would cost £5m to construct and provide more than 100 jobs for the area.

That would be 100 jobs at some point during construction?

Can’t see it creating more than a couple (to five if there was a cafe built) perm jobs.

Where is the money going to come from to pay for it?

Do they have any realistic business case yet?

‘Someone’ chucking £5m to build a chairlift to ferry bikes up and down a hillside in the Scottish Borders that can’t really be utilised for other uses like skiing etc? Verus running a transit and a trailer up and down which costs sub £10k?

I can’t quite see that happening but it’d be seriously good if it did!

Would be great if this happened but i’ll not hold my breath. One would hope that for things to have got this far some proper analysis would have een done and it’s not all fantasy.

What’s wrong with pushing or pedalling to the top? I thought mountain biking was all about escaping the crowds, being in unspoilt wild places and enjoying nature? I support development of the trails and the area but to scar the landscape is surely unacceptable.

I thought mountain biking was all about escaping the crowds, being in unspoilt wild places and enjoying nature?

Probably best not to go to a trail centre if that’s what you’re after.

If it’s that sort of technology, they can expect to get more than just cyclists using it, so the income stream will be improved. If they can utilise it for more “XC” type trails too, then that’ll be even better.

You don’t understand the concept of downhill mountain biking jaylaz? You ride a bike that is completely unsuitable to ride uphill, downhill. Fast.

Still… transit + trailer. Doesn’t have the glam of a chairlift but it does the job for a load less money + impact on the environment, even if they have to extend the uplift road to get right to the top of the downhill runs. Can get a 4×4 Transporter… job done.

You don’t understand the concept of downhill mountain biking jaylaz? You ride a bike that is completely unsuitable to ride uphill, downhill. Fast.

It doesn’t even have to be a bike that’s completely unsuitable for riding uphill – even on an XC bike I doubt that many people are going to ride/push up the climb at Innerliethen 8 times in a day, and if they did they’d be a lot more knackered for the descents.

druidh – Member

If it’s that sort of technology, they can expect to get more than just cyclists using it, so the income stream will be improved. If they can utilise it for more “XC” type trails too, then that’ll be even better.

Both of those thing are in the plan from what I have read – and also a downhill bobsled on rails type thing. However how many folk would pay £5 to go to the top of minch moor to see the view? on a dreich november day?

For me any time I look at the proposals i see a hugely optimistic estimate of the numbers using it and no way of getting funding on a commercial basis. It just looks like a huge money pit – not able to actually run without subsidy let alone be built without subsidy

My fear is it would end up absorbing every penny available from state funding for any mountain biking development. 5 million would build a lot of trails 100 bermbabyberms? 200+ km of heavily armoured red trails?

TandemJeremy – Member
My fear is it would end up absorbing every penny available from state funding for any mountain biking development.

What state funding? Let them get planning permission and take it from there.

Any possible future state funding. the chances of doing it on a non subsidised basis are nil. the trail centres we have were in large part funded by various state funds were they not?

The Cairngorm Funiclar and the debacle surrounding that may rule out any state subsidy. The funicular was a massive cost, ran way over budget and the visitor numbers have been nowhere near what was expected.

the visitor numbers have been nowhere near what was expected.

That’s because you can’t take mountain bikes on it. 🙂

I’m all for it. I would definitely use it. It would undoubtedly bring more people to Innerleithen.

BUT

How many more? Estimates of increased visitor numbers always have to be taken with a large pinch of salt. Even if it double the number of visitors to Inners (unlikely) is it ever going to wash its face based upon an initial invest of £5million

Even at £10 a trip that’s half a million trips to cover initial investment costs (which takes no account of the running costs)

If it costs £500,000 a year to run (a total stab in the dark someone else might have a better idea) then that’s 50,000 trips a year just to cover costs.

So I guess I’d like to see what figures this group is proposing

richmtb – Member

Even at £10 a trip that’s half a million trips to cover initial investment costs (which takes no account of the running costs)

The thing is… Things like this shouldn’t be judged purely (or maybe even partly) on whether they’ll make themselves a profit. The 7 Stanes trails aren’t profit-making, never will be, but they bring in a vast amount of money to their areas.

TandemJeremy – Member

5 million would build a lot of trails 100 bermbabyberms? 200+ km of heavily armoured red trails?

50% of a Peel? (before someone says “Ah but that was pre-recession, how about 105% of a kirroughtree and glentrool visitor’s centre rebuild)

If Edinburgh hadn’t bothered with the complete waste of money that is the trams, they could build the chairlift and have £995,000,000 left for free inner tube patches at Innerleithen. Genius, I should work in politics.

Edinburghs trams that money could have done so much. A good bike for eveyone in Scotland?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-18440262

I particularly like this bit…

Lib Dem MP and chief secretary to the Treasury, Danny Alexander, accused the Scottish government of focusing on central Scotland transport projects rather than improving the A9.

Mr Brown said Mr Alexander should ask his MSP colleagues why they had sought to spend £774m on a tram system in Edinburgh rather than spending money on other schemes, such as the A9.

“Build it and they will come”

There’s 2 inescapable truths about the whole thing IMO… One is that for mtb use, a better uplift road would make far more sense- Uplift Scotland do good work but it’s a pretty slow uplift, a full day gets you 8 runs. And it doesn’t go to the top!

But the other is that any project with a pair of Latimers pointed at it is likely to crush all opposition.

Would the existing trails cope with the extra traffic?

b r – Member

That would be 100 jobs at some point during construction?

Can’t see it creating more than a couple (to five if there was a cafe built) perm jobs.

Look at the wider area. B&Bs, hotels, campsites… Bike shops, coaches, standard retail outlets… Other tourist attractions in the area.

As of 2007, it was estimated that the impact of the 7 stanes was, wait for it, 205 FTE jobs.

with a pair of Latimers pointed at it is likely to crush all opposition.

What he said 😀

The Cairngorm Funiclar and the debacle surrounding that may rule out any state subsidy. The funicular was a massive cost, ran way over budget and the visitor numbers have been nowhere near what was expected.

Because (unless something has changed), you can’t actually get out at the top onto the mountain…

However how many folk would pay £5 to go to the top of minch moor to see the view? on a dreich november day?

You need a cafe at the top and an enclosed way of getting there – then you can start to entice bus loads of the puple rinse brigade along (e.g. Ft.Bill, over £10 for a return ticket on the gondola, over-priced cake and tea, bus loads of “Lochs and Glens Holidays” each day – easy money)

There was a public consultation a few months ago which was well attended – there were more non mountain bikers than anything else. The company will be run as a community so any profits go back into other community projects. There are already lots of other businesses in the area related to mountain biking so the market is definitely there.

Its is planned to have a cafe at the top as well and while I agree with previous comments that it can be pretty dreich up there, it can also be stunning. Well done to AIMUp for getting this far.

It’s a great idea and would be fantastic if it happened. Best of luck to all involved.

Northwind – Member

As of 2007, it was estimated that the impact of the 7 stanes was, wait for it, 205 FTE jobs.

POSTED 1 HOUR AGO # REPORT-POST

i remember speaking to the whiskey shop owner in GT many moons ago, not long after the hub opened (early noughtuies?) anyway he was saying then that it had coem to a big shock to him that mtbers were overtaking the traditional tourists (fly fishers) as teh big spenders

i dont think 200 jobs tells the whole story

Ah, i remember the thread on Descent world, it’s probably still going/ been resurected by this.

There’s 2 inescapable truths about the whole thing IMO… One is that for mtb use, a better uplift road would make far more sense- Uplift Scotland do good work but it’s a pretty slow uplift, a full day gets you 8 runs. And it doesn’t go to the top!

A better up lift road will improve things but it will still be a lot slower than that chair lift. plus it will spread the riders out rather than have them going in pulses.

At £10 a day (~1/3rd of the price of Ft. Bill or Uplift Scotland) while it would need half a million visits to pay for its self, who says it has to do that in the first year?

Say £20 a day, over 5 years, that’s 50,000 lift tickets a year.

And at £20 a head they’d take a considerable chunk of the DH market as far fewer people would go to Ft. Bill. It may encourage Nevis to put some more runs in.

How about we also see this as part of the bigger picture?. There’s plenty of other ways off Minch Moor by bike or foot – into the Yarrow Valley for example.

This could very easily be the key to a much wider development of trails of all kinds across the Tweed, Yarrow and Ettrick valleys. Borders Bike Park anyone?.

TJ and others – no offence intended (honest!), but I know some of the folks behind the AIM-up project well. Some of them are extremely commercially savvy and have massive experience in large private sector organisations. They know a pup when they see one, and would not associate themselves with something that doesn’t stack up.

Cheers

Paul

Does it really have to pay for itself?

Does your parliament building do that? Will Edinburgh’s trams?

Paul – having seen some of the numbers used its clear that it has no chance at all of being financially viable without massive subsidy

The original plans for the chairlift used ridiculous numbers. Every DH in the UK going there 20 times a year, huge numbers of sightseers every day, more people on it each day than go on Nevis range on a busy day. This latest plan simply assumes more people will use it

Yes I think it would be great – put unless it is going to be subsidised to the tune of millions then it will never happen.

and thats without the technical issues of using this lightweight funicular system in a way it has never been used before.

So unless they can get multimillion pound funding to build it ( because there is no way on earth it could every pay a loan back) and many hundreds of thousands each year to cover running costs it is not going to happen.

More trails off the top – mega mental DH stuff, maybe freeridey ‘shore’ type trails and more Glentress-esque runs (a massive blue grade BBB all the way from the top of Inners would put a reet grin on my mug) etc etc and maybe access to more XC trails heading south from Innerleithen and maybe west towards Peebles and Glentress.

If there were all these options I’d happily pay £20 a day to have a gravity assisted fix despite not being averse to climbing (especially Inners which I really like as climbs go).

I’ve never felt the inclination to go on an uplift day but like someone else said, one of the big advantages of a chairlift I could see from a rider experience point of view is that you jump off the lift and straight into the trails where there shouldn’t be a massive queue (unlike a bus load of people all piling into a trail together).

Another thing that’d be needed would be supporting infrastructure. A better car park, bogs, cafe, shop etc. I know its a flood risk where the car park currently is but there must be more suitable locations…