• This topic has 24 replies, 18 voices, and was last updated 4 years ago by TiRed.
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  • Injured althletes and pro teams
  • matt_outandabout
    Full Member

    Brook Macdonald is now waking again after his crash. It struck me (and others in the comments) that they are having to fundraise to get him home and to help with care during his recovery.

    Surely his team an sponsors have a moral duty here to look after all the costs and recovery? He has some very big names on his jersey and helmet.

    https://m.pinkbike.com/news/brook-macdonald-walks-unsupported-for-the-first-time-and-sets-up-fundraiser.html

    weeksy
    Full Member

    It’s an unfair world at times isn’t it… Football players get bazillions a week, yet a fearless DH bloke can’t even afford his own recovery time. But that’s the world we live in.
    I can’t help but thinking these guys should be getting some decent health insurance which would help with these associated costs though, even if quite expensive to buy it.

    Problem with asking the team is that they’re likely on a shoestring budget stretched to it’s limits too. Even looking at the Tour peloton etc you see teams folding here there and everywhere due to lack of funding…. Let alone a 1-2 man team in the lesser supported DH races etc.

    It’s got to be a love of the sport type thing, or stay at home in bed.

    kilo
    Full Member

    Suppose it depends on the nature of the deal and I don’t know his circumstances on this but if I employ you on Team Kilo then yes definitely, but if I just chuck you a bike or forks and the pay off is my name on your jersey then maybe less so. It would be good publicity for companies to be seen helping though.

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    matt_outandabout
    Full Member

    Problem with asking the team is that they’re likely on a shoestring budget

    Iirc, Brook has a Redbull helmet. Yes the team might be on a small budget, but some of the sponsors this is fluff and coin from the tumble drier time….

    kilo
    Full Member

    Don’t redbull have a bit of a bad rep on that score already, seem to recall they weren’t overly supportive of riders injured in redbull events.

    leffeboy
    Full Member

    Yep, rampage seems to be amazingly risky for little cash for most folks

    Nobeerinthefridge
    Free Member

    It’s an unfair world at times isn’t it… Premiership Football players get bazillions a week, yet a fearless DH bloke can’t even afford his own recovery time. But that’s the world we live in.

    FTFY mate! Lots of footballers in the top league up here don’t get paid when they’re injured, and even when they do get paid, a lot of them get what is effectively a wage in real terms. Kilmarnock were top 4 last year and they cap at 1200 quid a week, and that includes a win bonus.

    Lots of players will then cover up injuries.

    weeksy
    Full Member

    Fair point, i guess i was relating it in the context of him being more Premiership than Scottish league 2…. He’s at the pointy end of that sort of rider.

    Obviously the lower down the classes in various sports the lower the rewards. But cycling in all guises (maybe other than the top roadies) does seem VERY poorly supported.

    timbog160
    Full Member

    They’re not fundraising for living expenses though, they’re fundraising to get him home. It is mental that he doesn’t have insurance for this, whoever provides it. There may be relatively little money in bikes, but the industry should be hanging its head in shame at this.

    thisisnotaspoon
    Free Member

    True, but it really comes down to external sponsorship. A manufacrurers team or one sponsored by a clothing brand is one thing, adding a couple of quid to each item sold to cover the marketing budget, but its always going to be difficult. Whereas pro roadies are sponsored by oil, flooring, glue, vittamin supplements etc that make their returns when those jerseys are worn in front of a much bigger non cycling audiance on tv. Much easier to have deep pockets when you’re selling millions of floorboards compared to a few hundred extra frames.

    Have to agree though, why doesnt the uci make madical and repatriation insurance mandatory for competitors. Jo Blogs cant even go on a biking holiday without proof of insurance, surely it should be a requirement to race?

    Trimix
    Free Member

    One of the problems for DH teams is possibly the fact that so few DH bikes are actually sold.

    Sure, for Trek and the like they also sell other bikes across the range. So you can argue that DH teams provide marketing exposure for the brand. But some like say Ploygon ! Anyone own one, seen one, ridden one ?

    I wonder what it actually costs to run a proper team. Manager, assistant, mechanics, cook, physio, trucks, travel, accomodation etc etc. You could easily see that running into several thousand even if you did it on a shoestring. Also its for such a small number of races, so all that staff wont actually be employed for a year.

    Not sure how it adds up.

    mashr
    Full Member

    One of the problems for DH teams is possibly the fact that so few DH bikes are actually sold.

    They are there to advertise the brand as a whole as you say. I’d imagine that the brands you dont recognise are more well known in other parts of the work (even going to the alps you see brands that you dont get in the UK)

    I wonder if Brook is effectively self-employed? As a professional athlete this is effectively a workplace accident, so an employer would have at least some duty of care (ignoring different rules across countries). If Mondraker, Fox, Red Bull, etc are just personal sponsors then I can see why they’re not taking care of the situation (as crap as that is)

    mark88
    Full Member

    I wonder if Brook is effectively self-employed?

    I don’t know, but my assumption would be that World Cup riders are employed by the team for the duration of the contract.

    Below quote from NY Times article about Tyshawn Jones

    I wondered aloud if his sponsors offered health insurance — they do not, which is industry standard because pro skaters are contractors, not employees.

    It would make sense that someone sponsored as a ‘lifestyle’ athlete to have less support and infrastructure than a racer signed to race in a specific series, so I find it disappointing Brook’s team aren’t picking up the bill.

    BadlyWiredDog
    Full Member

    In the case of World Tour road team riders, the UCI Joint Agreement actually mandates the team / riders to have accident / medical insurance covering medical costs, repatriation etc. In reality I suspect that teams the top teams go way beyond this, not least because they’ve invested a lot of money and development into their top riders.

    I wonder if this is another example of the gulf between the on and off-road sides of the sport.

    big_n_daft
    Free Member

    It was a UCI event, they could and should mandate all the teams (and any privateers) have the appropriate insurance

    tpbiker
    Free Member

    As a professional athlete I can’t believe he’s not got insurance to get him back home. I have insurance when i go mincing in morzine once a year or ffs!

    Whilst I have every sympathy for him over his accident, I’m not sure I’d be inclined to dip into my own pocket to fund his trip home if he’s been too tight to take out the appropriate cover. (This is assuming he knew his team wouldn’t cover him, which again seem unbelievable that they wouldn’t)

    I know downhill mtb isnt exactly flush with cash, but I’m sure he still gets paid a decent wage for his trouble.

    thisisnotaspoon
    Free Member

    I suppose they may be uninsureable, or at least not at a reasnoble rate. Its almost a given that at least one the top 20 ends the weekend with at least a trip to hospital for a check. Even a broken arm could run to tens of thousands in a private hospital, so the insurers could easily be asking four figures per weekend.

    But yea, someone should be insuring it.

    Hob-Nob
    Free Member

    I wonder what it actually costs to run a proper team. Manager, assistant, mechanics, cook, physio, trucks, travel, accomodation etc etc. You could easily see that running into several thousand even if you did it on a shoestring. Also its for such a small number of races, so all that staff wont actually be employed for a year.

    A lot. The Syndicate have indicated their DH programme costs well over $1m a year. As they are part of a big group of companies, they must be able to ‘prove’ the ROI exists, or it wouldn’t happen.

    Case in point, there isn’t a Specialized factory DH team now, and at the end of this year, there wont be an enduro team either.

    If you arnt a big ticket name, then you’re lucky to be earning anything at all. The harsh reality of it guess. Travel, accommodation & a few bikes you can sell at the end of the season at best.

    BoardinBob
    Full Member

    I suppose they may be uninsureable, or at least not at a reasnoble rate. Its almost a given that at least one the top 20 ends the weekend with at least a trip to hospital for a check. Even a broken arm could run to tens of thousands in a private hospital, so the insurers could easily be asking four figures per weekend.

    Spot on.

    This is what I do for a living and I can confirm no one is insuring professional sports people, on an insured basis at least, for medical costs. There’s self insured options but they wouldn’t be offered to or financially sensible for individual teams.

    Interestingly enough I did get asked to give a quote to the UCI a couple of years ago for a large group of pro roadies who were riding for multiple teams but I declined to offer terms. Far too risky.

    Aside from medical insurance there’s a few other areas to consider. I would expect the teams to have some Employers Liability insurance in place that should offer some kind of cover here. Not my area of expertise and I suspect it’s full of complex clauses, but EL is available for far higher risks than riding a bicycle. From a medical cost perspective, the New Zealand system is pretty good so his costs should be getting covered, albeit probably not at the top private clinics that may be available.

    Insurance aside I would expect and hope his team and sponsors would be paying for repatriation costs and also taking care of his medical costs. It’s the least they should do

    chakaping
    Free Member

    The Syndicate have indicated their DH programme costs well over $1m a year.

    And Loic Bruni was interviewing his boss and the Canyon team boss recently, they suggested about 1m euros for a top team.

    Wonder if it works out cheaper for Spesh to sponsor Gravity Republic (if that’s correct) than run a factory DH team then?

    TiRed
    Full Member

    Pro tour is O($10M) budget per year. Pro Continental about half that. Matlab probably O($1M) and downhill probably about O($0.1M). I imagine the team is run on a shoestring budget.

    But there is the moral duty and likely brand damage. That’s what Social media is for.

    chakaping
    Free Member

    downhill probably about O($0.1M)

    Erm, two of us have just shared reliable info that indicates a top DH team costs north of $1m.

    I’d imagine Brook’s Mondraker team would be at least half that amount and only the semi-pro teams would have budgets as low as $100k.

    Think I recall about £30k odd for a single privateer’s DH season. Correct me if I’m wrong though.

    vinnyeh
    Full Member

    They’re not fundraising for living expenses though, they’re fundraising to get him home. It is mental that he doesn’t have insurance for this, whoever provides it. There may be relatively little money in bikes, but the industry should be hanging its head in shame at this.

    Is there some confusion here- he’s back in NZ so presumably had insurance to cover medical bills and repatriation.

    He’s in Christchurch because that’s where the rehab clinic is. NZ’s ACC scheme will be pretty much covering the cost of rehabilitation.

    The donation page says

    With all the support this Givealittle page will help Brook and Lucy with rehabilitation back home, transport and financial support for Lucy as she will be looking after Brook.

    Which is fair enough, to provide funding for day to day costs.

    It’s a bit unfair at this stage to imply or suggest that UCI and/or Mondraker and any other sponsors haven’t provided insurances to cover costs up to this stage.

    timbog160
    Full Member

    Actually that’s true and probably fair enough – but it still seems poor that a professional athlete does not have cover provided for this sort of thing (ie continuing aftercare which is let’s face it still essential). Anyway, having seen that 100% have donated $5000 I will never buy any other goggles again 😀

    TiRed
    Full Member

    0.9m is still O(1M). It’s just to demonstrate the much lower level of funding. I’m saddened but not surprised.

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