Indonesian Drug Laws?

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  • Indonesian Drug Laws?
  • jambourgie
    Member

    With the news that another British Woman is about to be possibly sentenced to death for smuggling drugs into Java, does anyone know why drug laws are so extreme in that part of the world?

    I mean, I understand the US’s original misguided motives, and the UK pretty much does whatever they do, but countries on the other side of the world? Is it just because they’re draconian in all sentencing? Or is there another reason?

    Just a thought…

    Premier Icon stewartc
    Subscriber

    Indonesia is the most populated Muslim country in the world, probably something to do with that?

    Premier Icon Harry_the_Spider
    Subscriber

    Maybe they don’t want people bringing drugs in.

    If you fly to Taiwan there is a big sign up saying “WE EXECUTE DRUG SMUGGLERS” in the arrivals hall at CKS Airport.

    Smugglers know the risks. If they get then it is tough.

    Premier Icon MSP
    Subscriber

    If you fly to Taiwan there is a big sign up saying “WE EXECUTE DRUG SMUGGLERS” in the arrivals hall at CKS Airport.

    By the time your in the arrivals hall, it’s too late.

    Mr Woppit
    Member

    If you can’t do the time, don’t do the crime.

    cheekyboy
    Member

    Drugs ar baaaaaad !

    jambourgie
    Member

    Totally missing the point chaps.

    Premier Icon Harry_the_Spider
    Subscriber

    By the time your in the arrivals hall, it’s too late.

    That crossed my mind too. I bet security are watching to see who look worried.

    Totally missing the point chaps.

    Go on then. What is the point?

    iolo
    Member

    OP,
    Don’t play with the angry tiger or you will die.
    Don’t jump from the plane without a parachucte or you will die
    Don’t smuggle drugs to our country or you will die
    What’s your point?

    jambourgie
    Member

    I didn’t start the thread to talk about the right or wrongs of the death penalty, I was interested in any possible reasons for such harsh punishments. For example: could there be an economic element? Ie, something to do with trade rights or aid. Nations competing in sycophantic sucking-up to the US for cash. “You sentence smugglers to 30 years, we sentence to 100 YEARS!” etc

    jambourgie
    Member

    Christ. Why does every discussion about drugs always bring out loads of people shouting “DRUGS ARE ILLEGAL” without adding anything to the debate? 🙂

    cybicle
    Member

    Indonesia has some of the toughest anti-drug laws in the world but in practice death sentences are rarely carried out, says the BBC’s Jonah Fisher in Bangkok.

    Premier Icon Harry_the_Spider
    Subscriber

    I was interested in any possible reasons for such harsh punishments.

    Maybe they don’t want people bringing drugs in.

    jambourgie
    Member

    Maybe they don’t want people bringing drugs in.

    Now we’re getting somewhere…

    But why are they prepared to prevent this with such harsh punishments? Is it for any specific reason, or do you get death for everything over there? That’s all I’m asking.

    iolo
    Member

    Which part of the debate shall we join in? Java have a zero policy on drug trafficking. When a local is caught they will probably be put to death.
    When you get a british woman crying she will probably not be decapitated due to the international scandal. She did however commit a crime there and should accept the fact that she should be punished.
    Or should we let her go OP?

    Premier Icon Harry_the_Spider
    Subscriber

    Walk into any country with 5kg of coke stuffed in your knickers and you are going to get punished somewhere near the top end of the local legal scale.

    I bet Indonesia are pretty tough on murderers and rapists too.

    The implication of the original post was that it was understandable why the US had strict punishment whereas it wasn’t for a place like Indonesia. I bet if you tried it in Singapore, Norway or South Africa they would throw the book at you as hard as they possibly could too.

    jambourgie
    Member

    Oh forget it.

    Premier Icon Harry_the_Spider
    Subscriber

    You started it.

    If you get caught smuggling you will get hit as hard as the law will allow and in some countries that is pretty hard.

    cheekyboy
    Member

    Maybe the Indonesian authorities view lax drug laws as the thin end of the wedge that would lead to western decadence creeping in, they probably despise western decadence and wish to retain a clear bench mark on what they consider is right and what is wrong, any country can do this if they wish its called sovreignty.

    Zero tolerance and the ultimate penalty ought to be sufficient deterrent unless of course you are truly stupid.

    Maybe Gloucestershire Police need to reassess their PCSO selection criteria to ensure stupid people are eliminated from their future recruitment processes.

    Premier Icon MSP
    Subscriber

    I bet Indonesia exports far more drugs than it imports, maybe it’s just part of their monetary policy.

    I read an interview with an ex drugs trafficker a few years ago, he said something along the line of “drugs mules are just dumb patsies, they only exist to keep drug enforcement busy and allow them the odd public victory, the real trafficking is done by the tonne not just a suitcase full”.

    aphex_2k
    Member

    There’s a selection process for PCSO’s?

    1. Can spell own name (without carer) Y/N

    cybicle
    Member

    I bet Indonesia are pretty tough on murderers and rapists too.

    I wonder if the rates of rape and murder are lower in Indonesia than in countries which don’t have the death penalty? Also, how many countries have the death penalty for rape, a crime which is woefully under-investigated and prosecuted worldwide?

    Jambourgie raises an interesting topic. Would be nice to see folk engaging with it, rather than sneering in wrongly assumed superiority.

    peter1979
    Member

    Lovely to see the STW Police completely missing the point of the thread and then attacking the OP.

    I think maybe because a mixture of reasons. Perhaps because in the more Islamic populated countries alcohol and drug use is considered the worst type of sin and is therefore punished in more severe ways, death being the most severe options available. These are countries where people still get hung or sometimes stoned to death, so this could be a reason?
    Another factor could be because of the socio-economic effect on what is already a poor county could be seen to be at the top end of the crime scale and so punishable with maximum force available.

    Maybe the question should be would drug smuggling carry the death penalty if capital punishment were still in use in the UK. If not then for what crimes would it be exercised? Seeing that tax evasion can carry sentences rivaling that of murder or manslaughter!

    Premier Icon MSP
    Subscriber

    Seeing that tax evasion can carry sentences rivaling that of murder or manslaughter!

    No it doesn’t

    Fine to 7 years imprisonment (Value Added Tax Act 1994),
    up to 7 years imprisonment (Theft Act 1968),
    fine to 10 years imprisonment (Fraud Act 2006)

    For murder you can get 30 years (+ in exceptional cases)

    bencooper
    Member

    Iran also executes a lot of drug smugglers. Why? Because the EU pays them to.

    http://www.iranhrdc.org/english/news/in-the-news/1000000309-how-european-taxpayers-are-fueling-executions-in-iran.html

    It may well be something similar with Indonesia – aid and trad deals in exchange for being tough on drug smuggling.

    Premier Icon Harry_the_Spider
    Subscriber

    I was sneering, i just failed to see the point.

    There are plenty of places that will execute you for smuggling. Not all of them are islamic. They do it because that is their law. I suspect that there are all manner of other ways to get executed there too.

    http://simple.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_with_the_death_penalty_for_illegal_drugs

    If you tried it in this country you would get a severe sentence also.

    iolo
    Member

    So will this woman be executed? I’m still looking for the point.

    does anyone know why drug laws are so extreme in that part of the world?

    In the UK ~4 people die each week directly from illegal drug use. IIRC that figure only includes OD’s, bad batches, adverse reactions etc (i.e stuff you’ll end up in hospital with accute problems) and ignores long term health effects from the drugs, catching HIV/HepC from needles, dying whilst on drugs for some other reason, or being killed for some other reason connected to the drugs (gangs, debt, etc).

    When you look at it that way, maybe we’re the ones being too leniant?

    Indonesia is the most populated Muslim country in the world, probably something to do with that?

    The USA executes people for breaking religious laws too, so not something you can single them out for really.

    joshvegas
    Member

    Don’t worry OP I undertsood your meaning.

    As above the answer is…. Islam, in particular sharia law, that is were the culture of harsh sentencing comes from.

    America has some pretty spectacularly harsh laws too, three strikes etc, thats based on a different flavour or idiocy, sorry, religious conservatism.

    Premier Icon Harry_the_Spider
    Subscriber

    As above the answer is…. Islam in particular sharia law, that is were the culture of harsh sentencing comes from.

    Take a look at the list of countries that do it. China, Vietnam, Taiwan, Zimbabwe etc. I think if the country has strict laws, irrespective of religion, then you are going to get into trouble.

    iolo
    Member

    mr woppoit

    If you cant do the time don’t do the crime

    cybicle
    Member

    If you cant do the time don’t do the crime

    In some countries, homosexuality is illegal.

    cybicle
    Member

    In the UK ~4 people die each week directly from illegal drug use

    In the UK, 4 cyclists have died this week from being hit by motor vehicles.

    How many die each week as a result of tobacco or alcohol use?

    iolo
    Member

    I agree that some laws are barbaric. Uganda as an example do not condone homosexuality. I watched Stephen Fry there on tv last night.
    The drug smuggling is a different entity completely.

    Premier Icon Harry_the_Spider
    Subscriber

    This isn’t about the crime, or perceived crime in some cases, it is about the severity of the punishment.

    In some of the countries on that list you could get executed for all sorts of things. I was in China a few years back when they paraded a load of people found guilty of piracy on TV then machine gunned them. Fraud on a large enough scale will get you shot too.

    In Vietnam Gary Glitter’s crimes would have got him executed if he had been a local.

    You can’t single out Indonesia, Islam or drug smuggling.

    5thElefant
    Member

    In the UK, 4 cyclists have died this week from being hit be motor vehicles.

    Ban bicycles and execute bicycle importers?

    I bet plenty would vote for that. Probably as many as want drugs banned.

    cybicle
    Member

    Ban bicycles and execute bicycle importers?

    Weren’t the bicycles that killed them.

    chewkw
    Member

    Very simple. That is the law of the land. The end. You traffic you lose.

    Or if you want to put it in a more “civilized” PC way, in South East Asia they have no room for drug traffickers that want to create an already difficult livelihood.

    They do rehabilitate drug users only if they do not cause any criminal offense but if they do they will be exterminate like pest (some on the spot). They try to rehabilitate the drug users but generally this is seen as self inflicted problems and funds to keep them off drugs is very limited. No, you CANNOT blame others that got you into drugs. You ARE responsible for yourself. If you are not force then you are guilty so they will get you to go cold turkey try to help you out a bit. You have one chance to get it right or you will be pest.

    As for this lady I see no reason why she should not be hanged or shoot between the eyes if she intends to poison the people of the country. Actually, they should apply the rule of Henry VIII – hang, drawn and quartered her in public.

    In other part of South East Asia, if the numbers of drug traffickers become epidemic the gov’t will enforce legal death punishment to exterminate the pest … in front of the parents.

    As for the concern from Western Countries … unless they can come up with something viable then it is of no concerned to them. If you do not like those countries then banned traveling to and from. You do not have to be friend with those countries and vice versa.

    Solution … in exchange for life:

    1. Pay the Indonesian govt huge compensation each time a British drug trafficker is caught there. Like £500million per trafficker because of the damage one drug trafficker can do the population is huge and that money should go to deal with those social problems. Then the British govt can have their drug trafficker(s) back … do whatever they like.

    2. Alternatively, give asylum or permanent residency to certain number of drug users from that part of the world for every drug trafficker caught from the West. They will have to feed them in their respective country. For example, for every drug trafficker caught the country where the trafficker comes from should absorb 500 drug users to their country – feed, house, educate, employment and rehabilitate them forever.

    As for whether drugs are produced in those countries and being exported out … well … very easy just exterminate the maggots that try to traffic the drugs into your country.

    🙄

    wilko1999
    Member

    Bloke down the pub once told me that the reason places like Indonesia have such tough drugs laws is as follows:

    They have such a thriving drugs manufacturing and export industry that ‘partially funds’ the country. So to throw the rest of the world off the scent, and to make it look like they are all Mr Goody-Two-Shoes they adopt a zero-tolerance stance on small-scale smuggling in and out of the country, and do stuff-all about the big guns.

    That’s what the bloke down the pub reckons anyway. And he’s normally right.

    freeagent
    Member

    I’m strongly opposed to the death penalty, I think it is little more than a barbaric retaliation, and not how civilized society should behave.
    However, I also believe you should respect the laws of the countries you visit, and if you don’t like them don’t go there.

    It is no secret that many countries execute drug smugglers, so those who’ve been caught knew the risks they were taking, and were only acting out of greed.

    I feel the UK Government should make a stand, if only to have their sentences commuted to life in prison, however, these people have landed themselves in this position, so I’m not sure we should loose too much sleep over it.

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