So dear daughter is now fully in to A levels having done very well at her gcse’s. She is uber keen to gain any extra qualifications going. When going to uni (if she goes) or applying for her first job or say higher apprecenticeship do things like D of E set you aside as a slightly better candidate?

She currently has bronze and silver, did the ncs course and also has a young leaders award. I appreciate perhaps the more you have the better but wonder whether time now would be better spent on a level study?

Thoughts please.

Really depends on what kind of job she wants eventually. I would say that first and foremost the MOST important thing is A-level grades, so anything that distracts unhelpfully from that should be limited. That said, DofE took up a managable chunk of time for my daughter (nowYR13) and she has no paid work experience, but has done NCS and quite a few unpaid roles in charity shops etc. My advice would be not to get a job at A level unless she needs the cash or really wants to. Plenty of time to get a job when at Uni or over the summer holidays.

I was encouraged to do DofE at school to help with the uni application (I didn’t bother in the end, seemed more important for people trying for Oxbridge). These days though uni’s seem more like businesses competing for a limited number of fee-paying students and probably care less than they once did about ideal candidates.

As for worth it rather than focusing on A levels, that obviously depends on whether you/she thinks doing DofE will hamper her A level studies. I can’t see it myself, I remember having plenty of free time whilst doing A levels.

Probably also helps teach being a bit more self-sufficient before she leaves the nest, assuming not taking a gap year etc. There seemed a lot of uni students who hadn’t ever cooked or done laundry when I went.

Few work colleagues are sending kids to uni and no CV as such but the personal statement is key where grades may be an issue.

As for first jobs something relevant or something that shows an interest in the field. But if you don’t know what that is yet good grades and being able to converse with people and show enthusiasm would be key.

If going for a job I really doubt DofE would count for anything.

If she goes down the work route work experience or volunteering will count the most.

As above get A levels sorted first worry about other stuff later.

Mrs FD has done loads of assessing for kids doing medicine at Uni. The ones with very high academic grades but no life skills  ring alarm bells

For me, the most important thing on a graduate’s CV would be that it’s a neatly formatted and well presented document with no spelling mistakes or other errors.  At that age they’ve done next to nothing and it’s not really relevant beyond Maths and English grades, but it’s the first example of their work an employer will see.

I’d probably value DofE, if nothing else it’s a talking point in an interview.  With any application, I want to see a well-rounded individual rather than a CV that looks like an RPG character sheet.

In any case, there’s no “right” answer here.  This is what I’d look for, someone else recruiting could have totally different priorities.

So just me who finds the phrase “teenager’s CV” depressing?

(Actually it probably is, and this probably wasn’t a great help to my offspring, as kids get judged on paper regardless of my tender sensibilities/bohemian affectations, providing opportunities for some of the more clued in of parents to secure advantage. I don’t have to like it though…)

Actually it probably is, and this probably wasn’t a great help to my offspring, as kids get judged on paper regardless of my tender sensibilities/bohemian affectations, providing opportunities for some of the more clued in of parents to secure advantage.

As a few have pointed out above they get judged generally on meeting them as they all have the same stock template at that age of exam results, DofE etc. something, part time shelf stacker…..

As someone who will often try to recruit final year Uni intern over the summer all I want to see are:

* Excel skills: Pivot table, filtering, vlookup. Show you can do more great. Don’t just say you know how to use MS office – show what you can do. Give examples of how you could apply these at the co you are applying too.

* Work you way round OSX, iOS, Android and Windows like a pro.

* Experience using common SaaS products like Xero, Salesforce, Mailchimp or similar. Even with no real world experience you can sign up for free demos and know them inside out before joining. Be specific how these would apply, state how you will be able to use any similar products.

* Be able to read / write English and present your ideas. A short video showing this off and that you are not a freak is even better.

* Assuming everyone else applying has straight A’s, a glamorous gap year story and D of E can you simply make an epic tea or coffee and be humble / helpful on your first day, show some other way that you are awesome.

* Tell them that you live close by and can get in easy. Amazing how many people apply for jobs living no where near.

Every student has straight A’s these days. Most have 0 skills to hit the ground running on day one in the simplest real world environment. Whether you are going into banking or engineering the above will provide a good foundation for the most basic things and make you more useful than the average straight A Gap yaaaaar student.

As a few have pointed out above they get judged generally on meeting them as they all have the same stock template at that age

Yeah.

It’s probably worth saying, a CV has one job, which is to land you an interview.  After that it’s done its job.  At that age, anything you can do to stand out is a bonus.

I looked at a lot of teenage / early 20s CVs when I was recruiting for apprentices a year or so back.  Most of them were absolute shockers which would’ve gone straight in the bin if they were more mature candidates, it’s clearly not a skill that anyone teaches them.  As I said earlier, a well-written and proof-read CV will get you a long away ahead of the herd at ~18.

Every student has straight A’s these days.

Not in my experience, not ever remotely.

Depends what she wants to do really. I don’t think I even had a CV until just before I left uni when I applied for my first ‘proper’ job, at which point none of the stuff I’d done pre-degree really mattered.

All my jobs before and during uni were either word of mouth or random ‘you got any jobs going’ type applications. So that was a year of full time work (gap year) plus 4 years of full time summer jobs and part time term time jobs with no CV.

That may be completely irrelevant if she’s wanting to go straight into ‘proper’ jobs, but it is possible to overthink the CV thing at that age when it’s not always required.

If going for a job I really doubt DofE would count for anything.

Yes, but if you’ve never worked, it’s not something you’d leave off your CV is it?

DofE website – https://www.dofe.org/dofe-skills

Just picked this one as I know someone who works here –

Anything that shows long term commitment and a good work ethic would be valuable.

I’d be looking for someone who is able to grind it out for the long haul to achieve their end goals rather than going for quick wins.

A part time job or volunteering would be top of my list.

DofE, ability to play a musical instrument to a decent level, sporting achievements etc.

I’d also put any CV with the achievement of a Queens Badge / Queens Award from Boys  / Girls Brigade immediately to the top of the pile but that’s a personal bias on my part.

Long term membership of any other youth organisation would also be a big winner with me.

2 candidates, both similar qualities, 1 has done DofE and 1 hasn’t.

I’d take the DofE completion every time.

Echo what PP says above – music, sporting achievements, they all help raise you above all the others who are applying. If the interviewer shares some of these interests you’re already half way through the door.

DoE is fine if you add context. E.g it was raining, -2, my team mates were having a melt down, I wasn’t able to use GPS and was the only one that took tea bags. My amazing tea making ability at -2 saved the team. If I can do that I can deal with a difficult client, team mate, manager kind of thing. If people at co recruiting haven’t done it / are not outdoors types they just think it’s walking round the woods.

Being able to demonstrate you are resilient and able to deal with annoying customers / shareholders / team mates will help with any job from LBS mech to CEO at Trek 🙂 DoE can help to show this if you can present it well and have limited experience elsewhere. At entry level this is just as important as being able to demonstrate leadership.

DoE is fine if you add context. E.g it was raining, -2, my team mates were having a melt down, I wasn’t able to use GPS and was the only one that took tea bags. My amazing tea making ability at -2 saved the team. If I can do that I can deal with a difficult client, team mate, manager kind of thing. If people at co recruiting haven’t done it / are not outdoors types they just think it’s walking round the woods.

Presume it’s not changed but when I did it you had to do a full year of 3 month blocks, volunteering, sport, learning a new skill and the expedition, it wasn’t just an ability to order the cheapest of everything from blacks and walk 25 miles in a weekend which is maybe just the well known bit. There was a degree of organizational, commitment and following through required, I never got as far as the expedition despite it being the easy bit for anyone outdoorsy.

3 A’s but limited outside activity probably better than 3B’s with lots of other stuff. I’m guessing (I only recruit mature candidates) that even graduate interviews are going to be to some extent competency based. (I.e tell me about a time when….).  So having a few items on the CV that could indicate that will be helpful.

It’s an interesting discussion though where I suspect people have opinions both ways and it may well depend on type of job or degree.  Choosing between 3A’s plus supplemental qualifications or 3A’s plus real world experience.

you had to do a full year of 3 month blocks, volunteering, sport, learning a new skill and the expedition

Yep, still like that. My lad had to spend a year of Sundays in the shed with his grandad learning to make a ship in a bottle for his Skill. If any potential employer actually knew what an endurance feat that was, they’d take him on in a heartbeat! 😆

Personally I value work experience above vocational work. So if you want to be an accountant then getting some weekends or holiday work at an accountants will put you over and above everyone else. Next in line is qualifications, the more specific to the job the better. And things like DofE and similar at the bottom, they may differentiate you from a similar candidate but there are other things of greater importance IMO.

Funnily enough i had a lucky break and got a really good job partly on the back of a slightly obscure summer job.  Suppose with hindsight it did sort of stand out among all the other cv s.

Also, don’t overlook the value of networking.  If you have next to nothing on your CV then telling everyone who’ll listen that you need a job until one of them knows someone who needs an extra pair of hands.  That’s how I got my current role in TV production, which almost makes me feel guilty when talking to people on set who’ve done very specific college courses, internships, been runners and worked their way up and I just jumped in the right place at the right time with zero relevant qualifications!

I just jumped in the right place at the right time with zero relevant qualifications!

Which is exactly not what I’m going to tell the uni students I’m meant to inspire into my current field despite it being my way in too!

Also, don’t overlook the value of networking.

Yes, this too. Talk to people, tell them what you want, go to events, shake hands. It’s scary as hell to most people but if you can force yourself to do it you’ll get so much headway.

If going for a job I really doubt DofE would count for anything.

Even at Graduate level (never mind school leaver) it does help – as Cougar says its not necessarily going to get you the job but it gives the interviewer something to talk to the nervous teenager about.  Perhaps more so if they themselves did DOE but even if they think its all about making cups of tea in the freezing rain you have a starting point to explain its much more.  Just make sure she knows what she gained from it, and why she picked those skills, physical and volunteering opportunities!  The answers of “my mates were doing them” doesn’t impress!  If she’s unlucky enough to get a competency based interview she’ll have examples for a number of the common themes around her DOE stuff too.

If she goes down the work route work experience or volunteering will count the most.

DOE will involve 3-6 months of volunteering (depending on the level), and most gold award holders will actually have over 12 months of regular weekly volunteering to talk about.  If she knows what she wants to do in life then, picking related choices can (1) help verify that before getting to the real world and discovering its not what you expected; (2) really achieve that differentiation on CV/application.  Equally the skill section may be adaptable to the particular area of interest.

As above get A levels sorted first worry about other stuff later.

Mrs FD has done loads of assessing for kids doing medicine at Uni. The ones with very high academic grades but no life skills  ring alarm bells

Do those two paras not contradict each other?  If DOE is getting in the way of studying – remember it is not a race.  The rush to complete whilst still at school is one of the reasons I’d suggest doing it outside a school setting.  “I completed Bronze and Silver and currently undertaking my Gold DOE: learning 8th grade viola, improving my slalom skiing, and planning my 4 day expedition whilst hoping to undertake my residential activity with the National Trust” is just as (actually more) interesting on a CV as “Awarded Gold DOE by Prince William in August 2018”.

Stuff that’s not been mentioned – if she is thinking about university, look at Uniq and similar summer schools in an area that she is interested in. These are competitive, but well worth it.

If, as you say, one option is going straight out to work don’t underestimate the ability to communicate and hold a conversation/interact at interview.  Having just interviewed a stack of folk over the last few months for trainee posts it amazed me how few teens/early 20’s can confidently string a sentence together and give a good presentation.  Being a confident able speaker really does set a candidate above another.

Sorry to say this but in my humble opinion DoE is becoming old hat; seems every other person you interview these days has done it.  Its just too easy an option, pay your money get nursed through it and get a certificate afterwards.  I’m not dissing DoE outright as I appreciate there are multiple benefits; but at interview it just doesn’t impress.  Do something different, something that really gives back to your community and benefits others, that impresses!

Good luck with whatever she goes on to do.

There’s no point having a CV for a first job. You have **** all experience and are just an extra pair of hands. Employers will most likely hire you ‘cos they like you/want to give you a chance. Mist kids have enthusiasm and naivety in their favour, so best to make personal contact with the employer directly.

There’s no point having a CV for a first job.

Nonsense.  Maybe that was true in the 1970s.  It’s universally expected these days.

Employers will most likely hire you ‘cos they like you/want to give you a chance. Mist kids have enthusiasm and naivety in their favour, so best to make personal contact with the employer directly.

I’d be impressed with a young person taking the initiative to make direct contact.  Then I’d say, “sure, can I have a copy of your CV?”

Tbf what is a teenager going to put on a CV? If its your first job? The world is quite a daunting place at that age so expecting anything more than a bum job for beer money is a bit Ott I think. The direct approach worked for me although you have to  handle a lot of knockbacks. My bro was running his own little business. I guess its about finding out and doing what’s best for her, not what someone else necessarily recommends

GSCE grades.  Extra-curricular activities.  Achievements.  Work experience.  Career aspirations.  Hobbies and interests.

Whether or not they’ve got much to say is neither here nor there.  I’m struggling to think of any role which wouldn’t require a CV as part of the application process, even if it’s just got a name and address so they can keep track of candidates.

How may years ago did the “direct approach” last work for you?

In no particular order:

– Vegan

– Gender fluid

– Safe platform officer for local school / college

– expecting to secure Vice President level role within 12 months of entering full time employment

– expects to work from home at least 3 days a week and have the summer off.

Apologies – I can’t do pi55 take emojis due to being not “down enough” with the kids.

Teen 2 is not going to uni and we put together a CV focussing on teamwork (DoE and a trip to Peru), general IT skills, and the somewhat unusual position of having a full private pilots license as he trains to be a pilot#

Has a second interview for a security position at Heathrow next week.

If you apply through any job site, you’ll need a CV. Ok not a lot to put on it when you’ve just finished your A levels, but is always good to think about your skills. And anything that sets you apart from the crowds.

#55 hours flying so far, nine exams passed, formal communications qualification, planning (at least an hr per hr flown), work under pressure, responsibility etc. And a nice small picture of him flying in the cockpit.

I was impressed by my eldest’s CV despite him not having done anything. A few sporting achievements and some spiel about how awesome he was and that was pretty much it. As mentioned… something easy to read with good spelling and grammar

I’d also put any CV with the achievement of a Queens Badge / Queens Award from Boys / Girls Brigade immediately to the top of the pile but that’s a personal bias on my part.

One man’s personal bias is another man’s bigotry. My cousin and i went to join the BB when i was was a kid. He got in, i was refused. Reason given, and i quote ‘We don’t allow Fenians’ 😀

Different times.

It’s all inclusive now. Even for Tims. 😉