butcher – Member – Block User – Quote
In 15 years of daily driving I have NEVER once been held up long enough by cyclists to believe that I would be in any way acting selfishly, or truly inconveniencing anyone. I’ve never once seen it.

+1 (although in my case it’s more than 25 years).

As I said in another thread, the one about reducing speed limits on country roads, where the hell is everybody going in such a hurry anyway?

WORK you **** [ none of the emoticons says envy}

To the OP;
You shouldn’t have stopped to have a word.. a step too far!

But you are right that they should have pulled over way before 4 miles if there was space for them to do so. Basic road manners for any vehicle whether it be my Nan plodding along in her Porsche or a group of cyclists.

A side note.. Some (dare I say most?? not you peeps of course :lol:) Car drivers are bleeding terrible at overtaking cyclists.. the amount of times I have had to take defensive positions on blind bends to make sure the vehicle behind hasn’t decided on a ‘I’m sure it will be fine’ overtake.
I really think drivers need to be made much more aware of how difficult it is to overtake someone doing 20mph on a pushy around twisty roads.. Horses get loads of patience from nearly all drivers but in my experience cycles are squeezed past by otherwise perfectly sensible drivers. Time for a campaign??

Horses get loads of patience from nearly all drivers but in my experience cycles are squeezed past by otherwise perfectly sensible drivers. Time for a campaign??

Absolutely……and as long as the cycling boys and girls get good results on the track in the next couple of weeks it would be the perfect opportunity on the back of TdF too.

I know I should read the whole thread but I want to retain the will to live. However can I just confirm that the OP has a problem because:
1: the road was wide enough for two cars to pass each other
2: the road wasn’t wide enough for 2 cars & a bike
I may be missing something here but doesn’t that mean that it is irrelevant whether they are 1,2 or 3 abreast. He still won’t be able to overtake if the is something coming he other way.

Apologies if the point has already been made..

and also just the fact that thay could of pulled in and let him thur. thay dident have to but would of been jolly nice of them.

which they did when they got to somewhere they felt was safe and appropriate… finding a space large enough to safely pull 10 riders into is not that easy; seeing it in time to effectively communicate that to all the group further limits the choices. Nowhere in the original post did the he suggest they had passed any large lay-by etc. Rather that:

…its wide enough for two cars to pass but not two cars and a bike….
… All they had to do was form a single file and let me pass…

basic decency as far as Im concerned.

actually basic decency was giving you an obstacle smaller than a tractor and trailer to overtake rather than something they length of 3 busses! Basic decency however is generally not stopping to confront a group of road users, and whilst I’m not saying swearing at you was right; but I think you invited the confrontation so don’t complain if it triggered a rebuttal.

not one of them came up with a reason as to why they never let me pass.

is it possible, that since you’ve not listened to the ‘arguments’ why their riding style might be considered defensive (and protecting you from a potential custodial sentence for a poorly judged squeeze through manoeuvre), that any explanation you got was similarly dismissed?

imnotverygood
I know I should read the whole thread but I want to retain the will to live. However can I just confirm that the OP has a problem because:
1: the road was wide enough for two cars to pass each other
2: the road wasn’t wide enough for 2 cars & a bike
I may be missing something here but doesn’t that mean that it is irrelevant whether they are 1,2 or 3 abreast. He still won’t be able to overtake if the is something coming he other way.

Apologies if the point has already been made..It has, indeed, been made. And then ignored 😆

Has STW ever created a campaign of any note (plenty of talk on these pages surely there has been some action over the years)
Turn this overly long thread about a patient and reasonable car driver trying to get past slow moving cyclists into a STW campaign for better education of Drivers when overtaking cyclists.. Ironic but justified I think.
Rally the Troops.. We are going to Number 10 8)

Does everyone here realise that Emily Batty is going to be at the Olympic XC race, tearing it up? Just thought that might be relevant.

I fail to see what’s so dangerous about a group of cyclists splitting into 2 and a car moving into the middle of them? (provided the gap is big enough to safely get into of course). Car moves into the middle and drives along behind the first group, exactly as they would be doing if they were stuck behind the full group.

As for the cyclists behind, as far as I can see it the danger has already passed them. Just keep their eyes open and what can possibly happen?

When riding on road with friends on country roads, even in a group of 4, we often apply the principle of splitting in 2 to allow a hole in the middle for passing.

Oh not another weekly road incident thread where the scenario gets analysed in more detail and from more angles than the ‘trial of the century’ with O.J freekin Simpson!

Get back to work,get out on yer bikes or hit another website before this turns into another 10 pager!

POSTED 13 HOURS AGO #

Switch.the.computer.off.

Appreciated that with a large group of 10 it can be difficult for all to stop at once, but I can’t believe that in 4 miles there were no options at all to aid somebody to pass.

It’s not about being in a rush, or owning the road, it’s just common courtesy. How many of you ride the singletrack at a trail centre with a faster rider behind, and don’t make any effort to pull over and let them pass?

allyharp
May I respectfully refer you to THIS

Good idea martinxzz goodnight 😉

One thing has occured to me as I’ve dipped in and out of this thread today – it’s very hard to communicate an idea to a group of people at the best of times, let alone whilst pedalling at 20mph on a narrow road with a car behind you.

There’s a good chance that several of the riders each thought seperately, and at different times, that it would be a good idea to stop and let that poor bugger behind them past. A peleton though, is not a hive mind (unless it has been assimilated by the Borg). Perhaps regular club riders have set ways of doing things? Signals passed back through the bunch? I don’t know – not in a club.

Some of them may even have felt embarrassed but unable to act – it’s not going to make any difference if just one rider pulls over.

I fail to see what’s so dangerous about a group of cyclists splitting into 2 and a car moving into the middle of them? (provided the gap is big enough to safely get into of course). Car moves into the middle and drives along behind the first group, exactly as they would be doing if they were stuck behind the full group.

As for the cyclists behind, as far as I can see it the danger has already passed them. Just keep their eyes open and what can possibly happen?

When riding on road with friends on country roads, even in a group of 4, we often apply the principle of splitting in 2 to allow a hole in the middle for passing.

It really isn’t a good idea, it hurts when it goes wrong which is usually does.

Appreciated that with a large group of 10 it can be difficult for all to stop at once, but I can’t believe that in 4 miles there were no options at all to aid somebody to pass.

and i very much doubt it was 4miles…. but as the OP has had sense and disappeared it seems we may never knwo where this happened

Good morning.

I was asked to produce an etiquette guide for my club just recently, as all this stuff is such an issue.
Firstly newcomers have really over egged the whole thing. It’s very simple based on the fact that every rider in the bunch is responsible for himself. So just a few points to the left or right, and perhaps a little wave behind the back for obstacles are all that’s needed. No need for words.

The biggy is when to go single file or two abreast. In nearly fifty years of club riding this has just been a fluid action it’s never been an issue, but in the last year….Jeebus.
So as we needed a guide I suggested that the group ride leader makes the call, or a senior member perhaps with good local knowledge.

Finally as club chairman I go out on the three club rides and the level of riding on the beginer groups can be shocking (though not exclusive to the beginers)
I recognized the problem as half wheeling. Riders up front two abreast, the next two are half wheeling so in theory now three abreast and it goes on until you get an echelon right across the road.

Under my ‘science of rockets’ guide it’s single file or two abreast. It’s wheel to wheel, no half wheeling. Move smoothly and efficiently and keep signals to a minimum

Has STW ever created a campaign of any note

you mean come together with one unified voice and said proudly and clearly said ‘we hold this to be true’?

Doubt it. 😉

But 11 pages… Can I throw a cat into the works, a spanner amongst the pigeons? Where do we fall on waving people past on such occasions?

Myself I avoid it. But there is an argument that it would allow people to pass when the cyclist can see more than the driver. Think I made exception once for someone in a kit car who was very low down and couldn’t see a thing, and it was very very very safe.

Personally I think the more people are behind you for longer the more ‘appropriate it becomes to find a straight bit to tuck in. On a narrow windy lane a long line of traffic can begin to pose a hazard for oncoming traffic (if they drive like the **** tourists we get in summer). But the biggest group I’ve ever really been in is 7 or 8. And of course you have to take the safety of the riders bunched up by the side of the road into account as well.

One last thing I try to remember in situations like this. You don’t know what’s happened to these guys before you got there. Entirely possible they got two people behind them in big threatening four by fours, who performed a silly overtake, nearly clipped someone, pulled in too soon, barged past. And they just decided for one ride they’d had enough. I’m sure any one who rides/drives on the road has had those days when you can’t help but begin to believe there is some kind of conspiracy to terrify you out of your wits or try to kill you. On such a day even a politely worded criticism at a petrol station isn’t going to go down well.

The last time I got held up by cyclists was about 10-15 of them on a group ride, strung out in 1s and 2s over about a mile. The road was winding, some downhill, some uphill, some flat. I overtook a couple in safe places quite quickly and sat behind some of the others for a few mins before moving on. I had a moment of “I wish these buggers would get out of my way” before realising that I was actually driving through quite a nice area and I could just take the opportunity to enjoy the day a bit more like I would on the bike.

Where do we fall on waving people past on such occasions?

Myself I avoid it.

I do it. For several reasons;

1) If I can see further up the road than them and they get a longer ‘window’ to overtake.

2) It tells them you know that they’re there.

3) It sends a ‘I’m being polite, let’s all be nice to each other and share the road’ type message.

People often put a hand up to acknowledge that I’ve done it/say thankyou.

I think it just makes what can be a bit of a frustrating experience for both parties (them trying to overtake, you trying not to get knowcked over) more of a social interaction.

I was always told not to wave people through at any time when I learned to drive because it’s their job to work out when to pass and you can’t take responsibility for how well they drive, how fast their car is etc.

That said, I HAVE done it once or twice to indicate I’m comfortable with them passing when I’m on the bike or to indicate I know they’re there, in the same way that I’ve told people to slow down when they’re lining up to have a go at passing me on a blind corner or somewhere equally dangerous.

I always want riders to go to single file as well but now appreciaite better the longer group to overtake arguement.

However, overtaking a group riding 2 and 3 up means I end up being only 24-36 inches from the outside rider of 3 as he will invariably be on, or near, the white line (just like overtaking a car or being on a dual carriageway). If single file I would be able to give a much wider berth which feels much safer when I am in the car.

Perhaps this feeling is why so many drivers want bikes to single file.

Perhaps this feeling is why so many drivers want bikes to single file.

I could give the benefit of doubt, but no point, whilst some drivers do want to give the room, most just want to get past. The cyclists are in the way.

Regardless of whether it is safe to overtake it is easier to squeeze past single file riders than to properly overtake a group.

As for room, groups tend to be able to move a little if the car is a bit close.

The last time I got held up by cyclists was about 10-15 of them on a group ride, strung out in 1s and 2s over about a mile

That’s the problem with molgrips’ suggestion of splitting the group up: instead of one big overtake on a windy road, you end up with 5 smaller overtakes.

On most roads I’d say there is a better chance of finding a safe bit to make one big overtake.

when this happens to you;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYPDAry-A-s

As it did to me recently then you change your attitude to riding on the road and every car is a threat so you ride in a manner that means the car cant try squeeze past and I dont give a frick if they have to sit behind me for ten miles, that’s their tough luck.

No more debtate until we get a link to streetview of the road in question!

when this happens to you;
As it did to me recently then you change your attitude to riding on the road and every car is a threat so you ride in a manner that means the car cant try squeeze past and I dont give a frick if they have to sit behind me for ten miles, that’s their tough luck.

I thought these incidents were rarer than pheasants falling from the sky or being shot by a stray bullet on a bridlepath.(page 8.)
Clearly there’s nothing to worry about.

near misses with cars occur on ever ride, and it just takes a clip from a car to send you tumbling, so no they are not rare incidents, they are happening a lot.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-19059003

It happens again and again

A tragic news story, but the fact that it makes the news tells you how relatively rare it is.

I agree with you completely. I have had a few even on the very short trips I do on these country roads to link up trails.
Why do you choose to subject yourself to this in your leisure time?
I would certainly ride road if it wasn’t for this but like your comment and links above I find it extremely dangerous.
I couldn’t count the amount of times I’ve come around a blind hedged bend and a car coming the other way has had to make an evasive manouvre to avoid me, cause they’re in the middle of a single carriage road without enough room for a bike to get past either side.

more people are dying on bikes than British soldiers dying in Afghanistan, more people are being injured than anything.
Its news because its a kid.
Its not on the news because its happening so often.
If they were putting up on the news every death of a cyclist then it would be on every night.
107 died last year
19,000 injured.
the news would be boring if they were all reported.
Half of cycling fatalities occur on rural roads.

A little update a twist.

Firstly i drove home from work the same way yesterday and there are three places the bikes could have pulled-in to let me pass. one is a filter lane sized left turn at least 50yards long.

I was speaking to a fellow cyclist on an unrelated issue yesterday and mentioned the incident. He initially defended their actions until I told him what road it was. I then mentioned several of the riders had a sort of team or club kit on. He immediatly discribed the kit and knew them, explaining they have a bit of previous regarding this type of thing, he has riden with them and still does from time to time. He then told me I may know some of them as they frequent a pub we go to post Thursday ride.
If they are there on Thursday I will introduce myself, it may get interesting but Im not the confrontational type so we will see how it goes.

I will update you all as and when.

specialknees – Member
A little update a twist.

Firstly i drove home from work the same way yesterday and there are three places the bikes could have pulled-in to let me pass. one is a filter lane sized left turn at least 50yards long.

What road is it?

hmm. so you’re not confrontational but you’re going to find them on a ride a few days later to ask them to account for themselves? I hope they aren’t confrontational either otherwise this could get messy.

one is a filter lane sized left turn at least 50yards long.

I NEVER let cars pass me in a filter lane like that (i.e. I don’t go into them to let cars past on the road I’m driving on). Did it a couple of times and had near misses as cars thought I was turning off the road and put their foot down.

got a google maps link for this road ?

just leave it FFS
they arent required to let you past and who gives a shit if there was a passing place, you sat behind some cyclists for a while, wow, what a travesty, if you are so hell bent on getting some kind of justice, why not call the police, this whole argument you have is frankly pathetic.
get a grip and walk away from it.

If they were putting up on the news every death of a cyclist then it would be on every night.
107 died last year
19,000 injured.
the news would be boring if they were all reported.
Half of cycling fatalities occur on rural roads.

and so, it won’t be too long before campaigning starts to legislate against road riding, especially with all the money that’s being spent on cycle networks..

stubborn roadie groups (grown men obstinately playing with their toys in the road) riding inconsiderately, are not doing anything to help promote a positive image of road riding ..

Sounds perfectly reasonable to me. Meet up, have a few pints, chat, find common ground. Then lamp the **** (just kidding baout the last part) 😉

more people are dying on bikes than in Afghanistan, more people are being injured than anything.

The danger of figures like this is that it gives the impression that cycling is hugely dangerous and should never be attempted. Indeed several people on this thread have said as much.

Please remember that mile-for-mile the fatality rate is actually very similar to walking.

107 died last year
19,000 injured.

But in the context of the total: 1,901 killed and 202,049 injured.

Yes Yunk, grown men shouldn’t ride bikes, they should drive their car to the boot sale (or asda or whatever) on a Sunday like normal people. I mean the best way to keep out of the way of all these people rushing about in their cars on their crucially important missions is not to ride a bike at all.