I'm curious about softshells… is there a lightweight, breathable, robust one?

(If you can’t be bothered to read my essay below feel free to reply to just the title…)

I have never used a softshell before, but I am thnking of giving one a go. My clothing strategy is usually to use the lightest weight outer layer possible, and to layer up inside depending on temperature. So in spring/autumn I have a single short-sleeve layer under the hardshell, and in winter I might add an extra layer or arm warmers.

So far I have always used a ‘shower proof’ single layer hard shell (e.g. pertex), but I am getting fed up with these because they don’t keep me that dry in the wet, need constant waterproofing and, crucially, tend to be flimsy and break.

Therefore I am thinking of going for a softshell outer, with an ‘occasional use’ shower cape stuffed in the bag. To suit my needs I would want one that is highly breathable, very windproof and, although it doesn’t need to be waterproof, it wouldn’t hurt to have some water resistance. The other important requirement is a bit of robustness. I find that the single layer hardshells tend to split/tear at the seams with repeated putting on/taking off.

Does such a thing exist? This being the first time I have looked at softshells, I don’t know what the key brands are. I see Gore have a lighweight ‘active shell’, but it looks like this might be similar to my old single layer hardshells.

Price wise, I would probably go to £100ish if I know it’s going to last a few years.

All advice gratefully receieved…

EDIT: Will also be used for commuting wearing work clothes, hence breathability requirement

You’ve correctly identified the major problem with Soft Shells – nobody really knows wtf they are.

I have a 4 year old Gore Active Shell (not Goretex Active Shell) That I still use. I like the zip-off sleeves and the packability. I reproof it every winter and while it’s not a full on waterproof, it staves off light rain.

A lot of softshell stuff is designed for next to skin wearing on the bike. Unless it’s really cold the Gore one I use is too warm with clothes on underneath it. At most I’ll put a short sleeve base layer under it in autumn and a long sleeve merino bobbie in the depths of winter. A montane lightweight shell does waterproofing duties as necessary.

When it’s really cack and cold the Paramo smock goes on and that has no layers under it when I’m cycling as I would boil to nothing.

are the holy grail of bike clothing?? a one piece suits all occasions garment…luckily you haven’t said “cheap”. However your budget will stretch to something of quality, try anything by endura or madison. I wear these brands because they fit and work. I have the endura convert which works well and the arms can be removed. I also have a lusso windtec for sale if your interested? black in small size. rrp is about £55 to £60 quid yours posted for £32. email for more details.

I’ve got a selection of soft shells in varying weights, for various conditions. They won’t keep you 100% dry, but I can live with that. For everything but the heaviest deluges they’re fine.

Its a pay-off. I really don’t know how anyone wears hardshell jackets. They’re absolutely horrible things.

Quality wise – I’ve had a Sombrio softshell thats been used absolutely loads over a number of years. It gets coated in crap, shoved in the wash, and comes out like new. The Race Face ones are quality too. The one I’ve got is for deepest winter only use as its so toasty warm. But its bloody brilliant for December/January commutes

I had a gore oxygen so that was very good i regretfully sold it when i packed in cycling so now im back on a bike I’ve been looking at the same thing. The gore phantom 2 looks a good bet i think

Thanks for the info so far.

scotroutes: You’ve correctly identified the major problem with Soft Shells – nobody really knows wtf they are.

Maybe I should have asked that question. I used to assume they medium thickness items that took on a sort of combined role of role of jersey and windstopper with a smidgen of rain resistance. I suppose what I am looking for is the same thing but with minimal insulation, but does this end up just being like a pertex shell again?

the cheaper you go the less insulation…windy proof material you get..hell even a £10 fleece from gooutdoors is described as “windproof”. it’s not until you feel the material you notice it’s no better than a dishwasher cloth. Take a trip to the lbs and start touching up the clothes department 8)

I’d look at the montane dyno

I think the problem is “Softshell” seems to cover a number different types of jacket/material.

I like Pertex, my most used jacket is a Montano Dyno, i guess they didn’t sell that well as they are no longer made. Just a single skin that’s windproof and very breathable but has some water resistance, as long as you top up the DWR fairly frequently.

I also have a Marmot Softshell for colder days, thin fleece layer inner with very light wind/water resistant layer on the outside.

The ones that list “stretch” material as a feature tend to be a bit thicker and more fleece like. They also seem to be a more “athletic” cut too, which then rules out layering up underneath.

Windsurfers have always known that a gloss neoprene wetsuit is warmer than one with protective (or fashion-driven coloured) fabric outer layer as one gust of wind will dry the glossy one, whereas the other stays wet and the constant evaporation draws heat away from the body. therefore I’ve never gone for a softshell.

But we all have different metabolisms, and what suits me won’t necessarily suit you. My 2 regular Sunday morning riding buddies and I all know what to wear in different conditions through the winter and there’s not a lot in common. I’m a big sweaty furnace so my main aim is to keep cool on the climbs to stop getting soaked in perspiration which would just chill me later.

muddy9mtb: Well you say that, but is seems you can spend a lot of money on a lightweight Gore windstopper! Has anyone tried one of these, the ones labelled ‘active shell’ windstoppers? Seems to include the Element, Power and Xenon windstopper jackets.

I found softshells are too hot for me in anything other than sub zero temperatures. I prefer the versatility of the layering system.

I’m a fan of softshells, and wear a Montane Sabretooth a fair bit (mostly off the bike) and I’ve got a Gore (phantom I think) when it’s cold, damp and I’m on the bike.

The only way to stay dry in the wet is not to engage in physical activity – if your sweating it’s impossible to stay dry in the rain – softshell will eventually wet out and waterproofs will cease to breathe at some point.. It’s more pragmatic to figure out what’s more comfortable for you when wet than trying and failing to stay dry during exercise ..

used a gore windstopper for 36 miles during one of the Evanscycle ride it events. Worn next to the skin it was very comfortable. I’ve got nothing against gore except they don’t fit me as well as the endura stuff. The temperature for that day was mild (mid november I think) and we didn’t really stop much. I’m sure in colder climates a base layer would help…but as with any layered system it can be awkward to gauge the right clothes for that particular session. I would say the softshell comes out if it’s windy (surprise surprise) or the temp falls below 5′ other than that I just wear a madison long sleeve trail and short sleeve shirt.

I use my Pearl Izumi P.R.O Softshell for the road and it seems to do the things you’re asking of it. It is very warm though.

For MTB I have a Select softshell from the same company. I reproof it about once in every 5 washes and it seems to do the trick.

I’ve had a couple of Fox soft shells, which have been good in the winter months. Just bought a new Fox Bionic Trail which is pretty light and comfy. Should ticks all your boxes including price – just!

http://www.leisurelakesbikes.com/p/17804/fox-bionic-lt-trail-softshell-jacket

The problem is the term soft shell means nothing. It covers everything from £20 TK max specials to something like a £450 Arcteryx. Of course they are very different.

They were invented because climbers destroy hardshell jackets scrambling about on coarse rock faces, so softshell is a more durable alternative.

Personally I find “softshell” jackets too heavy, too hot and not packable should I want to take them off. Breathable, but not very windproof. They also generally have no inherent waterproofness to them at all, instead relying to dwr treatments to make them water repellent. If you use them off road dirt will get ingrained in them meaning they’ll need a proper wash, and before long they’ll not be water proof in the slightest. Once they do get saturated it’s like riding around with a wet duvet draped over you.

I prefer to layer up, light to heavy base layer and a light shell outer. Depending on what base layer I wear this covers me for everything down to minus 2 or 3, below which I don’t ride.

The other thing to be mindful of is that you pay a premium for ” bike specific” clothing. There’s nothing like the same range of products and fabric blends as there is in the climbing / hiking world.

Patagonia Guide jacket here.

Not bike specific but it’s very breathable and OK in all but torrential rain.

Bit over budget, but that’s what sales are for.

If it’s cold and dry outside, and I mean really cold I wear one of these http://www.decathlon.co.uk/bionassay-softshell-mens-hiking-fleece-black-id_8189747.html great in snowy conditions also.

The other thing to be mindful of is that you pay a premium for ” bike specific” clothing. There’s nothing like the same range of products and fabric blends as there is in the climbing / hiking world.

I agree, but you have to be careful with the fit. For example I have a Marmot Goretex Proshell climbing jacket, which is very waterproof, light and decent quality but I never use it for biking as the sleeves are simply too short while the body is too long. Basically the cut is all wrong for biking. My bike specific Fox jacket on the other hand is the same size, but has long arms which are the perfect length when on the bike and a short front, long rear body cut. I find it makes a big difference.

It’s more pragmatic to figure out what’s more comfortable for you when wet than trying and failing to stay dry during exercise ..

Very well put. However, I got given a few Rapha & Vulpine merino baselayers a couple of years ago and foolishly believed the “warm when wet” hype. As a result, the last couple of winter all-dayers have seen me colder than before.

Back to the 15 year old Helly Hansen polypropylene and Karrimor base and mid layers then.

And yet many folk will tell you that a Pertex shell is a softshell jacket. Packable, breathable, windproof, water-resistant….

What you’re describing would be something like Schoeller Dryskin (which I happen to love for the right conditions)

See what I mean about trying to define what they are?

Somebody up there said that you really need to go into a shop and go by “feel”. I think that’s the only sensible advice.

Somebody up there said that you really need to go into a shop and go by “feel”. I think that’s the only sensible advice.

hope it’s a lady on that day 😳

I use an endura windchill. I normally can get away with just a thin helly base layer underneath. It’s not totally waterproof but weirdly even if it really rains hard you tend not to get too cold, and it dries out pretty fast.

Rab Vapourise lite pull on

I use vapourise for everything from mountain biking. winter walking in the highlands, to skiing and sea kayaking. Last time I checked I had about 8 vapourise garments in the “gear room”.

it excels in those damp drizly conditions where you would boil in a hardshell or traditional softshell, especially if you run hot. Yes if it rains hard you will get wet but you will be surprised how long you stay comfortable for.

Its light,not overly warm, but warm enough packs down reasonably small, works well next to the skin or with a fast wicking base layer like a helly hansen. Not so good with merino as the inner face of vapourise catches on the merino when trying to put it on or take it off, the merino will also tend to saturate when working hard, where as polypropylene as used in a helly will move any sweat to the vaporise better.

I usually carry a lightweight shell as a backup if expecting conditions to worsen, goretex paclite smock or Montane featherweight windproof.

http://www.gooutdoors.co.uk/rab-vapour-rise-lite-pull-on-p289396

don’t use a wash in reproofer though, only the spray on stuff. washing in tech wash is fine though.

if you run hot its a cracking autumn, winter spring bit of kit for any active outdoor activity.

For the really cold weather I have an Endura Stealth, but it’s very warm. I also have a Madison Zenith softshell and it’s superb. It was £40 from 18 Bikes in the sale and it’s become my go to jacket, not too warm, breathes well, windproof and pretty waterproof. Total bargain and VERY surprised at just how good it is.

scotroutes

And yet many folk will tell you that a Pertex shell is a softshell jacket. Packable, breathable, windproof, water-resistant….

I’ve got a Rab Spark with Pertex, I think a more accurate description of it would be soft touch hardshell. But there again you have the confusion. I think we can agree that softshell means different things to different people.

moshimonster

I agree, but you have to be careful with the fit. For example I have a Marmot Goretex Proshell climbing jacket, which is very waterproof, light and decent quality but I never use it for biking as the sleeves are simply too short while the body is too long.

I’m not familiar with your Marmot jacket but when I was recently out shopping for a new shell (and bought the spark) almost everything i tried on was long in the arm for climbing and fairly long on the body. I had to rule out a few jackets I really liked because they were just too long in the arm. So I suppose it depends on the brand.

If it’s cold and dry outside, and I mean really cold I wear one of these http://www.decathlon.co.uk/bionassay-softshell-mens-hiking-fleece-black-id_8189747.html great in snowy conditions also.

please don’t post links to buying clothing….
it’s like a moth to a light
just the picture….remember just the picutres 😯

I’ve got a cheapo Aldi workwear ‘softshell’. It is lined with a thin fleece material. It needed reproofing after one wash with Nikwax, but this seems to be far better than the original coating.

It didn’t get much of a run out last year as it wasn’t really cold enough, but for a smidge under £30 it does the biz for me.

I know and like the layering concept, it really is the best way to stay at the right temperature, but here’s a thought:

If you wear a bigger jacket with only a base layer underneath, you can carry a spare base layer in your pack. You can then do a quick swap of base layer when you stop for something to eat on longer rides. So you get to sit and eat wearing a dry base layer and get a few precious non-sweaty minutes when you start riding again!

And yet many folk will tell you that a Pertex shell is a softshell jacket. Packable, breathable, windproof, water-resistant….

But there are so many versions of Pertex now (10 from a quick search), it seems they are stuck with their own “the one material to do it all” label which is now a bit out of date.

Big fan of Pertex type materials here, for me they pretty much define what a softshell is, especially with a bit of insulation added in. I reckon the main point of softshells is that they’re much more breathable than a hardshell Gore Tex (or whatever) jacket, so I’d say Gore shells and Stealths aren’t softshells at all since they have membranes in which are no more breathable than a hardshell jacket.

You will get wet though it properly chucks it down. For road I don’t really go out if that’s likely, for MTB I have a super light shell that I keep in the Camelbak if it starts to get too much.

Interesting that the OP is finding Pertex stuff less durable- is the fabric tearing or is it coming apart at the seams?

I got a rab vaporise this year after reading the reviews ,& so far i’m very impressed . It’s has been a bit warm to wear so far because of the unusually warm weather , but this last week at 6 in the morning it’s been exactly what i need .
I was beginning to wish i’d bought the Montane dyno , but happy now the temperatures dropped a bit .

I got the Showers Pass Skyline jacket.
It made me change my view on softshell jackets! It is waterproof to a degree that I’m still amazed with – after having the jacket for a year already. They say that heavy rain would find its way through (no tapped seams), but it hasn’t happened to me yet – even when riding in torrential rains.

It is quite warm, but it has plenty of useful “air circulation control” zips.

MrSalmon: Interesting that the OP is finding Pertex stuff less durable- is the fabric tearing or is it coming apart at the seams?

It may have something to do with the cut of the garment. The fabric ripped at a seam in two places on the back. That particular jacket (Montane Featherlite) seemed flimsier than my old Endura Rebound’s and lost colour on being washed too.

The Rebounds seemed more robust, although thorns and a fall did make their mark.

My Endura Stealth tends to get very wet on the inside. Doesn’t seem to be very breathable at all. ‘Part from that, I like the flex of the “softshell” and it seems pretty windproof and waterproof (from the outside…)

Like the look of the Shower Pass Elite 2.1 Jacket!

Got an aldi one recently (not the blue red heavy ones but on of the luightweight ones they in black or white, ‘pro’ or some other inapproapriate nomenclature) abysmal quality but the weight is spot on, I hate overheating and previously have just used a base and jersey in all conditions, toasty warm for night rides once up to speed, keeps a bit of wet off I imagine it will be in bits by the end of the winter but I’d buy another.

I have an Endura Windchill which is soft shell front and warm jersey rear.

It’s a great jacket for really cold, changeable conditions. It needs a base layer to wick sweat away or it feels rather uncomfortable so it really does need to be cold. When I stop the inevitable sweat accumulation starts to chill. It’s very hard wearing and well cut.

Unless it’s really filthy weather I don’t use it ie it’s not the general purpose top you appear to want. I’d quite like to try a Castelli Gabba which is more like what you want but it only comes in yellow (hard to wash) or black (not visible enough)

I got a rab vaporise this year after reading the reviews ,& so far i’m very impressed . It’s has been a bit warm to wear so far because of the unusually warm weather , but this last week at 6 in the morning it’s been exactly what i need .
I was beginning to wish i’d bought the Montane dyno , but happy now the temperatures dropped a bit .

Its worth mentioning that Rab Vapourise comes in 3 versions

Lite
Regular
Guide

The regular and guide version for me are winter only garments. The lite gets used autumn through winter to spring and is the version best suited to mountain biking if you run hot. Go for the smocks (lite and regular) that have the stretchy side panels.

The outer material is Pertex Equilibrium pertex Equilibrium

Rab Vapourise

If I could only keep one piece of outdoor clothing it would be my vaporise