Kryton57 – Member
You have to laugh a some peoples high and mighty attitudes…

Pot, kettle, etc… who was the one proclaiming super snow driving skills and no need for assistance?

I just pointed out that at some point you will get stuck. 🙂

I see no need for winter tyres – my blue groove and nevegal have been fine in the snow.

All this talk of braking distances – emergency braking aside, do people really actually use their brakes when driving on snow covered roads or ice?

Congratulations. That’s possibly the daftest question I’ve ever read on here.

Do you have any others ?

Glupton, all things being equal, which tyres will perform better on frozen and or snowy roads?

I assume you’ve never used them, or you’re just being devils advocate?

I’ve had no traction problems with my Kenda Bearclaws 😀

I’m always humbled by the driving ability of most STWers, but as an average, cautious sort of driver who acquired some winter tyres on steels inadvertently for free a couple of years back, I find them reassuringly grippy in conditions where summer tyres are simply sliding about or spinning.

I’m not quite sure how advanced driving skills can compensate for lack of grip in some situations. Some friends of mine live about 3/4 of a mile up a rough track that’s gradually climbing and in snowy conditions rapidly packs down into a sort of neve-like surface.

A couple of winters back, summer tyres just span uselessly regardless of gear, throttle opening etc. I got about 200 yards up the lane, then had to reverse back down. A year later in near identical conditions, with Conti Winter Contacts, the car simply cruised up in second gear.

It may be that a skilled driver could have overcome the lack of traction, maybe by grabbing nearby branches with his teeth or covering the entire lane with old carpet off-cuts, but for someone without advanced skills, the things just seem to work.

What would be the best way to approach an uphill, twisting, singletrack lane coated with slippery hard-packed snow with normal tyres? I’m genuinely wondering what I was doing wrong. Maybe the advanced drivers here could simply accept that for the less skilled like myself, winter tyres do seem to be an advantage in some conditions?

Why are people getting so emphatic about this by the way? No-one’s telling anyone else they must have winter tyres, its just that some of us having used the things, and find them useful. If you don’t want to use them, don’t bother, but I do wonder how many of the people who seem to think they’re not worth having, have actually used them?

nealglover – Member

Congratulations. That’s possibly the daftest question I’ve ever read on here.

Do you have any others ?

A serious question actually. Do people really drive so fast in those conditions when it is very probable that to use the brakes at more than a feather is going to cause a loss of full control?

49er_Jerry – I’ve used them a fair bit. Never NEEDED them though and never had a problem driving in snow and ice where having winter tyres on would have helped – clearance issues and polished ice on a steep hill – nowt winter tyres other than studded ones would do there). Admittedly, I am a highly trained driver with a lot of experience of driving all sorts of vehicles in some pretty wild conditions.

To answer your specific question – winter tyres will perform better on snowy and icy roads. This is not the same as saying that they are better for the majority of conditions we have in the UK during winter.

What would be the best way to approach an uphill, twisting, singletrack lane coated with slippery hard-packed snow with normal tyres?

Leave the car at the bottom and walk up. Especially if you’re planning on coming back down – where there is a high risk you’ll not be able to stop.

My Uniroyal M+S were 45 each. If I bought them now prob 70? each

psling – Member
A serious question actually. Do people really drive so fast in those conditions when it is very probable that to use the brakes at more than a feather is going to cause a loss of full control?

Yes. Colleague boasted that his Discovery could do 70 in the snow on the way to work because of it’s 4wd and he easily passed all of the idiots driving slowly. Took several attempts to get him to understand that he only had the same four small patches of rubber in contact with the ground with which to stop. And, because the Discovery is a big vehicle he was likely to travel much further when they did let go because of the momentum.

Quick question, I’m seriously considering some.
However, a) I can’t afford to buy two sets of tyres and another set of wheels and b) I really can’t be bothered swapping them round acouple of times a year and having to find storage room.
.
So, when I need new tyres can I just buy a set of winter tyres and use them all year round? This will probably be better for some things (less likely to get stuck in fields for example), but what are the downsides? Would winter tyres wear faster than normal tyres if used on motorways in the summer for instance? Would it harm fuel consumption?

There are all season/2 season tyres

This thread is stupid. It is a fact that winter tyres are better in the cold/icy/snowy weather.
If you want them or not is a personal choice. I use them and think they are great. Others think the same.
Others who have not used them don’t see the point. But if you haven’t tried them you can’t have an opinion on them.
Winter tyres allow you to make your journey faster and safer than without them. If you don’t want them thats up to you but if you haven’t tried them stop spouting pish about them not being worth it.

Dont keep winter tyres on your car all year round. Best option is to either go for good quality summer tyres or all season tyres.

Winter tyres allow you to make your journey faster ….

So, when I need new tyres can I just buy a set of winter tyres and use them all year round?

Continental UK say yes. Here:

There is a slight trade off with stopping distances as a winter tyre does not stop as quickly in the dry as a summer tyre, however, on balance if it is not possible to switch tyres in the winter, experts say you are better off with winter tyres all year round. This is because the difference in stopping distances of summer tyres in winter is far greater than for winter tyres in the summer.

http://www.conti-online.com/generator/www/uk/en/continental/automobile/themes/4×4-tyres/winter-tyres/why_winter/4x4_why_winter_en.html

So, you’ll know that the skill set of anydriver no matter how proficient they may be, that a tyre designed to perform to its optimum in the prevailing conditions will allow said driver / vehicle combination to operate more effectively.
Indeed, as a highly trained driver with a lot of experience driving in all sorts of conditions you will be more aware than most about preparing your vehicle for the prevailing circumstances and conditions.
Agreed, black/sheet ice presents a different scenario. The only winning solution may be, not to play the game.

Bridgestone A001 all weather tyres are absolutely brilliant, on in November off in March/April, make an RWD BMW actually driveable in snow and ice. So two sets of tyres used for roughly half a year each = no extra expenditure.

There still seem to be plenty of naysayers who still can’t get their heads around the fact that winter tyres are not snow tyres, just tyres better suited to lower temperatures irrespective of the road condition. We have low temperatures for a lot more than 2 weeks a year, especially at commute times of day.

I’ve not really seen it as a costly exercise getting a set. I bought an extra set of wheels to save fitting tyres costs but that’s it in terms of cost. A pair of winter tyres and a pair of summer tyres cover as many miles as 2 pairs of summer tyres so don’t see the cost of buying them as an issue.

If for no other reason than not having to dig the drive out as it’s quite a slope and not possible with the summer jobs in the snow but easy peasy with the winters, I’m in!

Here’s the thing though – the prevailing conditions for winter are not snow and ice or indeed freezing cold temperatures.

rogerthecat – Member

Kryton57 – Member
You have to laugh a some peoples high and mighty attitudes…

Pot, kettle, etc… who was the one proclaiming super snow driving skills and no need for assistance?

I just pointed out that at some point you will get stuck.

I was just highlighting a point, I didn’t laud it up though.

do people really actually use their brakes when driving on snow covered roads or ice?

This!

No denying that winter tyres make things a lot, lot better – but they give you extra traction for getting going and keeping going, however when it comes to slowing and stopping on snow then its all about the engine braking.

Watched a car bowl straight through a corner and into a lamppost, street sign and two other cars outside my house last night – I saw him going just a little too fast towards the corner and watched his brake lights come on, I braced myself for the crunch 😆 He had winter tyres on, but was essentially driving as normal relying on them doing the work….

Winter tyres allow you to make your journey faster and safer than if you did not have them

Yes I am being serious in the same way that mud tyres allow you to go faster in the mud than other tyres on your bike.

No denying that winter tyres make things a lot, lot better – but they give you extra traction for getting going and keeping going

… and getting round corners.

however when it comes to slowing and stopping on snow then its all about the engine braking.

Assuming a 2WD car, why would you put all your braking through two wheels rather than distributing more evenly with 4 using the brake pedal?

Glupton – you think you could rustle up a graph showing the average mean temperature at say 7am-8.30am (commute time)in the winter? I’d wager substantially lower than the graphs you popped up (which already make the case for rather than against imo).

Here’s the thing though – the prevailing conditions for winter are not snow and ice or indeed freezing cold temperatures.

When the temperature is below 7 degrees then winter tyres are advantageous regardless of road conditions.

Gluopton:

1. I know. And I knew it would get picked up on but the sad fact is most people do not drive with the care they should all the time but in bad weather I would hope that on the whole people do drive with the care they should. They shouldn’t but they do.

But for those who do you could count having ‘more care’ as expecting more idiocy around you than normal so checking for things that really shouldn’t occur.

2. I wasn’t referring to swerving on ice. That bit you inferred yourself as I was just referring to general winter conditions. No non-studded tyre is going to really work in ice but on the occasions I have found myself on ice then yes there has been a lot more control. You find that it is a lot easier to recover grip when one or two wheels end up sliding on ice and they loose grip later. You really shouldn’t be thinking of swerving on ice on pupose you know 😉

3. Do you know this for a fact about the silica content or is it just something you have read somewhere online? Do you understand all the tread differences and how they affect dry, rain, snow performance etc?

4. How predictable an answer 🙄 Fact of life – some things cannot be anticipated or we would never leave our houses.

5. depends on the situation. In a true emergency my attention is fixed on what is going on up front. But in one of those hard braking situations when there is someone driving too close behind me (and yes I have tried to allow for this by leaving more gap in front yada yada) then yes I try and glance in my mirror as there is a serious danger from behind too. But obviously only if the situation up front is under control – which why having more control is a benefit. I have avoided being hit from behind on a motorway by a 4×4 this way many years ago. I had noticed the driver had been driving too close to other cars and not paying attention a few miles back before the incident and glad I noticed them bearing down on me in my mirror before they slammed into me and took a safe course of action.

I have actually got a bit more experience with driving cars than your average joe and can handle one pretty well thank you but I yes I would actually quite like to get a chance to brush up on some aspects as you can always learn, no matter how good you think you are. Hopefully the instructor won’t be have the attitude like some seem to have as some really come across badly. But for now, and after then, I will stick winter tyres on my cars thanks as there are other benefits to them that compliment proper driving and as most humans aren’t perfect all the time they can be invaluable if no matter how good the driver is the tyres are not going work.

I’d suggest you actually try some decent ones and see what you think for yourself. If you can’t or don’t want to buy them then no one is forcing you. It’s just those of us who have tried them really appreciate them.

When the temperature is below 7 degrees then winter tyres are advantageous regardless of road conditions.

i’ve heard this many times. can anyone actually provide some suitable graphs that arent plotted with a non-zero baseline?

He had winter tyres on

How on earth did you find this out? Did you go to have a look?

Assuming a 2WD car, why would you put all your braking through two wheels rather than distributing more evenly with 4 using the brake pedal?

Because you can’t lock the wheels with engine braking.

Assuming a 2WD car, why would you put all your braking through two wheels rather than distributing more evenly with 4 using the brake pedal?

It’s all about degrees of control. Keeping the wheels turning is your friend on snow-covered roads or ice. Engine braking keeps the wheels turning, lightly feathering the brakes will also keep the wheels turning. The minute you stop the wheels turning, for example when braking, you start to lose control. Plus couple peoples’ instinct to depress the clutch on braking and even more contol is lost.

How on earth did you find this out? Did you go to have a look?

probably went over to tell him how much better life would have been with winter tyres on…

fitted some to my van some time ago, and i cannot believe the difference. i have failed to get it stuck, when usually i cannot get up my hill when it snows.

so i put some michelin alpins on my gf’s car as well, and that has transformed her car, she feels a lot more confident that she wont get stuck. the difference in braking is remarkable. worth every penny, and i cannot recommend them enough.

3 – know it for a fact.
4 – more can be anticipated than people realise – training helps you anticipate more.
2 – being happy sliding a car around is a great skill to have. Practice it as much as you can where it’s safe.

As stated previously – I have tried all sorts of tyres on all sorts of vehicles in all sorts of conditions. Good summer tyres are probably better than cheap winter tyres in winter/snow/pishy conditions.

Winter tyres in the dry take longer to stop than summer tyres at 5C.

Most winter tyres have a E rating for wet grip which is pretty poor, compared to an average A or B rating for decent quality summer tyres.

Cant seem to find any comparative data on stopping distances on a cold wet road at 30mph…. Wonder why.

How on earth did you find this out? Did you go to have a look?

No, I spoke to him while checking he was OK and giving him a hand

Having used winter tyres on both my cars for the last 4 winters I know which I prefer. Can’t be bothered reading through all these ‘for & against’ posts but just in case the ‘you need to tell your insurance’ and ‘no you don’t’ replies here is a list of some insurance companies and whether you do or don’t.
Need to tell your insurance company?
However, ANY change to your OE alloys are likely to be seem as a mod.

Cant seem to find any comparative data on stopping distances on a cold wet road at 30mph…. Wonder why.

How about this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elP_34ltdWI

No, I spoke to him while checking he was OK and giving him a hand

And made the effort to check the ratings with him? Odd fellow.

I would love to see how that conversation went.

How about this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elP_34ltdWI

thats on snow, i’m well aware winter tyres will be better on snow.

I’m regularly told that in any conditions below 7 degs winter tyres are better.

Coming soon to a cinema near you….

“Driving Miss Gupton – One highly trained driving instructor taking a stand against the laws of physics”

😀 😉