TYres make a huge difference – the standard Bridgstones that came on mine wree rubbish, back end used to be all over the show – replaced with Goodyears and transformed it

based on 6 months driving them – last truck id buy would be a hilux

if the old shape hadnt rusted to nothing by now id entertain that if i wanted something to drive 10 miles with a decent load in

new shape no way.

the L200 with koni coilovers i had in ukraine shit all over it – didnt feel so high and much more car like , comfortable and felt no where near as sea sick from the leafer bob.

as for the yank pick up trucks – “most” are RWD – was hillarious when we entered a muddy oil field in bakersfield and my colleague said “we are gonna get stuck here” – i said yeah the tires are a bit weedy even the 4wd might not help- he laughed and said “son this aint a 4wd”

even Land rover moved on from leafers in 1984 !

We’ve just got an Amarok with a hard top that sit flush with the cabin roof. It handles pretty well for the size of it, the ride is a bit crashy on country roads but very smooth on decent surfaces. One of our kids was a serial puker and she doesn’t get sick in it. Its very quiet on the motorway and will sit in sixth at 80 or 90 no problem. We’re just back from a trip, it did 29mpg with out any effort to conserve fuel. We had 4 big kit bags, a double pram, a high chair and 2 bikes in the back, and it was just about half full. It costs us the same as a van in BIK and fuel benefit. They’re not for everyone but if you want 4×4 and serious load caacity they can make a lot of sense.

I’ve had 2 x L200’s and use it as an everyday vehicle and family car. The main reason I went for the L200 was that it had more usable space inside and the rear doors are full size which is handy with kids. I drive to the Alps a few times a year and load it to the roof, 5 bikes and 4 people. No one seems to complain. On a long run, loaded I’ll get around 30mpg.

Get a proper 4×4. A Land Rover Defender.

Not too sure about a Defender.
Thanks for the pic, RV.

For load capacity my LWB transit was great – 6 bikes + sleeping in
Bikes inside and locked away. Had 1.5t of firewood in there couple of times too.
Pickup/ute etc bikes outside and nickable (1-0 I reckon)

Handling the transit has some even Med High/LWB was better than a hilux

Off roading
If we mean fields,lanes and snow covered road transit was v good. Hi lux may be a bit better but for my money not worth the other crap.

If you actually want to go proper off road get something cheap and keep it off the tarmac

Farm I work on have an old shaped version and a new turbo Diesel version.

Prefer the old shape for all the off road use and the new shape for on road.

Both Feel like boats on the motorway, you tend to guide it in the right direction, rather than steer it 😉

Load weight capicity has changed too, so worth checking if you are planning to lug heavy stuff with it.

for what he suggests i wouldnt have a land rover either…..

suprisingly affordable utility 4*4 FTW…..

If you actually want to go proper off road get something cheap and keep it off the tarmac

This, of course, is an option, but I’d prefer to keep it all bundled in one car.
It’s really a question of priorities and whether I want a vehicle for the weekends that’s going to be a bit crap during the week, or vice versa.
Thanks chrissyboy, I’d rather go back for a Lada. 😉

Sounds like you would be better off with some other vehicle for what your requirements are to be honest. A 4WD van or some other SUV I’d say.

A 4WD van or some other SUV I’d say.

What would you suggest and why?

id certainly look at a kangoo/berlingo/partner estate 4×4 with a 2.0 HDI a set of winter tires and a towbar.

I have a set of winter tires for my FWD partner and because of the high ground clearance its very good in winter

but depends what you want and what you expect from a car.

At least the Duster’s a *bit* more modern than the Lada….. And cheap….. And roomy….. And 4WD….. And did I mention it’s cheap? You could get one *and* a nice car too for the same money as a hilux….

Here you go: The ultimate lifestyle pickup:

Estate car-like to drive, but without the boot!

You don’t necessarily need a 4wd for “a bit of off-road”.
The forestry commission use(d) these:

Berlingo XTR. 2wd, but with an LSD, raised suspension and decent tyres.

Get a car for driving on the road, a Van(or trailer) for carting stuff about and a proper off-roader for off-roading.

We’ve has various 4wd pickups at work and I’ve driven (mainly towing) them quite a lot: Mitsubishi L200 – dire in all respects.
Hi-Lux 3 litre – pulls well, interior awful, handling, noise etc awful
Nissan Navarra – best of the bunch but still woeful compared to any car.
We’ve recently got a VW transporter van with 4wd. Much better than any of the pickups, but still noisy and fairly crude.

If you need a pickup, get a pickup.

If you just ‘fancy the idea’ of a pickup as some sort of open-range-cowboy-lifestyle statement or otherwise, get a pickup.

If you’re looking at it practically, get a van and a car or a large MPV.

ps. I wanted to hire a Hilux Crew-cab to drive around the Andes (for open-range-cowboy reasons 😉 ). There were none available so I ended up with a little 1.6litre petrol Ford 2wd SUV(South America market only) which was actually quite capable on dirt roads at 4000m.

toyota tundra……..
great mpg if you get this one!
[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJBpsjQzqMM[/video]

Drive several for work, most used one has 260’000km on the clock now. Suspensions pretty much shagged but it keeps on trucking.

Handlings not great with off road tyres on, its pretty good with road based tyres, the comfort increases too.

Off road ability is pretty good. Don’t need to turn the front hubs when you shift into 4wd which is an advantage. Has low range 4wd as well.

If you stick a moderate amount of weight on the back, be prepared to pay out for a new clutch as they don’t like it.

Ours are all the 3l diesel ones, don’t seem too bad on fuel, but them i’m not paying the bill, from memory, 400-500km from about 50-60L of fuel, with a load on the back of 300kg approx.

The biggest con are the Series 70 Land Cruisers, $80’000 gets you a great big V8 turbo diesel, electric windows, a cd player with 2 speakers, 1 cup holder, 2 seats, couple of airbags and thats about it. Substantial drinking habit, manage on average about 18L per 100km, good job it has two 90L tanks! Great off road ability, but terrible on road and pretty uncomfortable.

I can’t speak for other pickups as I’ve only ever had limited use of them.

But I spent 5weeks driving around the proper back country mountain towns/villages/mining communities in Peru last year.

3 of us, with stacks of gear, twin cab 4×4 hilux with the D4D (?) 3.0l 4pot TD engine. At sea level, enough power, and in 2wd handles like the average 4×4 chelsea tractor, nothing special, but even when badly loaded was stable enough to keep up with cars on pan america around the twisty bits. Gearing was a little ambitous though (more down to the extra massive wheels fitted to that one though), about 1700rpm at 60 mph lol

It was mildly tuned up on the engine dept. (NEEDS IT at high altitude otherwise it simply will not generate enough power to move the thing, even in low range!), was jacked up about 4″ over standard, and had an internal roll cage and tower behind the cab for extra lights (needs it!).

Most of Peru is pretty rough road wise, but we were literally driving for days at a time on the surface of the moon, sometimes wise 2-400kg of equipment in the back + a few locals wanting a free lift**

**its the most comfortable way to ride is standing/squatting with bent knees hanging off the roll cage off back of twin cab as your right in centre of vehicle.

We found it was more than capable off road, locking difs would have been GREAT, and if they are an option, I would spring for them as even on loose gravel/ rocky river crossings its really really a requirement.

At high altitude (4000m+) the power drops off so much that on a cold morning, you need WOT and low range 1st or 2nd just to get any movement out of it. As it warms up (takes ages) you can eventually get into high range, but don’t expect to be able to climb in anything other than 1st.

I think I WOULD have one as an everyday vehicle if I lived in the UK and had a genuine requirement for it. (I.E live on a farm with rough access), but if I didn’t and just liked the scale of a pickup, I’d be looking at a Mitsu Animal pickup, as they are MUCH more suited to the road and a lot more refined on the driving side of things.

++ we got around 30-32mpg average over 2000km in Peru, about half of that on the Pan America @ 50-60mph unloaded, the other half mud plugging and rock bashing up mountains that make the alps look like telly tuby land.

ALso on the running cost front, if you are a regular vehicle abuser, it has the most rugged suspension out there (but not sophisticated in any way), and cheapest to replace.

That Duster looks alright!

Don’t get a hilux, look what will happen 🙂

At high altitude (4000m+) the power drops off

Isn’t that true of all cars? I had some crappy Saturn big SUV in the USA which although overall crappy had a really nice 3.5l V8. Loads of power and torque at low altitudes, but even at 1500m I noticed a little less power; at 3000m or above it needed its nuts revved off to get anywhere.

Ive just sold a 2010 3.0 ltr invicable auto,& i can tell you unless you a specific job for one,abeit Farmer,Horses etc,do not buy one,the ride is bouncy & harsh,as its sprung to carry a ton,they’re too long to park,they’re not easy to park either full stop,fuel is 20/25 mpg,i am a very experienced driver,of many large & awkward vehicles,& they are a pig,no lock etc,& L200’s are worse,had wanna them too,so tread carefully,if its a lifestyle vehicle you want,buy a VW Transporter,job done..

Its a major purchase you may live to regret !.

+1 the 4wd varients do have very poor steering lock (the one we did had buffers installed to prevent the much larger than std wheels/tyres fowling the archs & brake lines etc), and heavy!

the 4×4 one we had actually had softer springs and longer dampers than stock, as yes your right they are usually set up with the arse way high up the air so that when you have a 1t water cube on there + bunch of animal feed they actually ride properly, as lets face it, that is their intended use!

don simon – Member

I can’t help thinking that many complaints are borne from trying to drive a 4X4 in the same manner as driving a sports car.

Exactly. You drive a car if you want creature conform. I will find out a bit more when I visit my friend in the jungle of Borneo in two months time but generally speaking for those off road use most prefer Hilux but there are some Land/Range Rover too but not common.

Another L200 owner here. Dreadful heap of crap. By far the worst thing I’ve owned. If I could get my money back it would be gone.

Isn’t that true of all cars? I had some crappy Saturn big SUV in the USA which although overall crappy had a really nice 3.5l V8. Loads of power and torque at low altitudes, but even at 1500m I noticed a little less power; at 3000m or above it needed its nuts revved off to get anywhere.

Yes and no, it depends on the ECU. Naturally there’s some reduction in power due to the fact that air is thinner so can only support combustion of a lower amount of fuel and with D’s that changes slightly too. But early ECUs working on speed density calculations only checked ambient air pressure at start-up, driving to any high altitude cocks up the calculations. modern SD systems can constantly correct for atmospheric pressure, but most OEM petrol systems are flow-based and as such can identify the thinner air.

It was a pretty high tech engine – direct injection petrol. It was the same on the day we drove up to altitude as it was every subsequent day we started at altitude. I think the lambda sensor would cater for altitude changes, no?

Even if you do get the fuel right, you still can put less fuel in under WOT. The car drove okay when you were being gentle – you only noticed it when overtaking or climbing hills.

Carrying me on a day to day basis in relative comfort.
Carrying the bike and me on weekend camping expeditions.
Ocassional European trips to pick up stock, which is bulkier rather than heavy and ocassional trailer duties.
Not having to worry about getting stuck in the snow.
Keeping hold of my point free licence, too many speed cameras in this country.
Future: Off road camping trips to Spain/North Africa.
I used to commute 140km a day in one of these, so my eyes are quite open.

Personally I would be looking for the Newest and Lowest mileage 2.5TDi T4 Synchro Caravelle I could find.

It does all the above (better than the Hilux in my opinion)

Great to drive.
Eats European miles (I have done many Alps trips in one hit without a problem (one driver) and a few times to Poland and back from Calais, one my own in one day!)
Good on fuel.
Holds value well.
Loads of room for kit and people.
Can remove read triple seat if you want to carry a BIG load of kit and still carry 5 passengers.
Etc etc etc.

^^ yes but lower oxygen, a lot lower. With petrols, yes, it can be catered for up until a point. With diesel there is a glass ceiling, and when you go past it, you just get a tonne of extra diesel being thrown into engine, it doesn’t burn (not enough oxygen to work with it) and then throws heaps of fuel out back end. And don’t even try to rev it, you just get knock which wrecks the head.

Also on higher powered models, EGT’s start to get lethal. Every time were climbing for more than 5/10mins straight (and anything required WOT) the stench of hot metal and burning under side protection.

Oh, we did have one breakdown, one of the cold side boost hoses went, leaving us with not enough power to actually move, so had to be recovered to next town, where they made one from a chinese truck fit with some epic sized turbo clips / jubilee clips

I think a turbo can compensate for altitude up to a point. Most turbos can put through more air than they are programmed to do, and I would expect the ecu would maintain boost by adjusting the vanes up until the thing’s maxed out, then you’d see performance fall off quickly. Our Passat’s been up to about 2000m I think, and I didn’t notice anything.

I see what your saying Neal, but the Syncro needs to recognise its limitations. 🙁
[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbxZ0_yxXT8[/video]

To avoid anyone else having to waste 5 minutes of their time, that van does not end up rolling down a hill or doing anything else interesting.

Just like all of life you may just need to compromise. We needed a large 4×4 for towing a horse trailer ended up with a Nissan Murano, large, comfy, cheap (nobody wants a large petrol 4×4) and well spec’d. compromise for us was poor mpg but we got a good warranty from a nissan dealer, it is an 05 car so it falls outside those stupidly big road tax bands of newer cars. have a look they might appeal, but just make sure you save up all those 5p off a litre of fuel voucher!