I love Americans, but there is something seriously wrong over there…

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  • I love Americans, but there is something seriously wrong over there…
  • Premier Icon wwaswas
    Subscriber

    http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-states/rural-population-percent-of-total-population-wb-data.html

    just under 18% of the US population live in ‘rural’ areas. I’d imagine the subset of those who might be subject to attack by predatory wild animals is a very small percentage of the total population.

    Why anyone living in an urban or suburban area would *need* a gun is a mystery to me. So probably 300,000,000+ people could only need a gun to protect themselves from other humans.

    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    If I lived in Shitsville Idaho, then I can understand wanting to own a rifle. But how many people does that represent? What percentage of the population could seriously justify ‘needing’ firearms?

    That’s not what gun ownership in America is about at all. Its marketed to the willing population, half on baseless fear, and half on some weird, testosterone fueled ballistics porn

    laikax695
    Member

    So connect to their website and leave your comments – enough people hassle these morons they might stop making this sh*t. No good whining in a closet.

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    ohnohesback
    Member

    I find it ironic that this happens on the same day that GTA is released.

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Subscriber

    The issue is that some people see the world in terms of goodies and baddies. Not just in the USA either, people on STW do it too.

    There are indeed goodies and baddies, but there are people in between, and people who move between the two. Most pro gun arguments run along the lines of “If the good people have guns, they can shoot the bad people and save the good people”.

    Which is patently obviously flawed to anyone over the age of 12 of course, but there is a complication. The guns are ALREADY out there. Stopping sales of new guns won’t get rid of what’s already there. The horse has already bolted.

    That’s a problem to which no-one really has an answer, imo.

    Premier Icon zippykona
    Subscriber

    Maybe they should only be allowed to own weapons that were available when the constitution was written.

    Premier Icon Lifer
    Subscriber

    molgrips – Member
    The guns are ALREADY out there. Stopping sales of new guns won’t get rid of what’s already there. The horse has already bolted.

    As Chris Rock (I think) said, make the bullets $1000 each.

    EDIT – Zippy’s plan works too.

    Unless for home defence, a responsible gun owner would never bring a gun and ammo together unless at a range.

    Ah. There’s that annoying R word again.

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Subscriber

    As Chris Rock (I think) said, make the bullets $1000 each

    Except it’ll take forever to deplete existing stocks.

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Subscriber

    zippykona – Member

    Maybe they should only be allowed to own weapons that were available when the constitution was written.

    I thought we’d cleared this one up?

    On a more general note, I always have a little bit of trouble with the “It’s in the constitution, and the constitution is sacred, you can’t mess with it or, you know, amend it.”

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Subscriber

    Aren’t the amendments all additions? Adding rights is easier than taking them away I suspect.

    I still think this is a wonderful exhibit A when discussing American right-wing views:

    [video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jl6ekkvWnOE[/video]

    Premier Icon franksinatra
    Subscriber

    s Chris Rock (I think) said, make the bullets $1000 each.

    And make it the law that every firearm must be painted Barbie Pink and sprinkled with glitter and feathers. Whould chip away at the macho image!

    El-bent
    Member

    Why anyone living in an urban or suburban area would *need* a gun is a mystery to me. So probably 300,000,000+ people could only need a gun to protect themselves from other humans.

    Huge social and race issues, leading inevitably to crime related issues. And since those issues aren’t going to be sorted any time soon, I can understand why they feel the need for handguns. I also understand the rifles for hunting business.

    What I don’t understand is the need for semi auto and automatic weapons to be available to the general population.

    I’ve always found it funny that some of them state they need to have firearms in case they need to defend themselves against the government. The last time they did that was 1861-1865, and look how well that turned out.

    ernie_lynch
    Member

    The last time they did that was 1861-1865, and look how well that turned out.

    Not enough guns. Next time will be different.

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Subscriber

    To be fair I’m much more likely to be killed by cheese than by a gun.

    LHS
    Member

    Any person who has psychological issues like these cases will find a weapon and kill people. No amount of legislation will stop that.

    It happens all over the world, including Europe…….

    Raol Moat
    Anders Breivic
    Derrick Bird
    Dale Cregan

    grum
    Member

    So why is gun crime so high in the US then LHS if it’s nothing to do with proliferation of guns? It’s just part of the culture?

    To be fair I’m much more likely to be killed by cheese than by a gun.

    The smell of a nice ripe Epoisse could kill as well as any assault rifle.

    ernie_lynch
    Member

    Raol Moat
    Anders Breivic
    Derrick Bird
    Dale Cregan

    You’ve left out all the people who haven’t gone on shooting sprees because of anti-gun legislation.

    And btw killing 4 people is quite a pathetic killing spree, if people with “psychological issues” could get their hands on fully automatic weapons, then I’m sure we could match the United States killing sprees much better.

    LHS
    Member

    Always easy to point the finger rather than accept there are issues closer to home.

    Let’s not even talk about knife crime in this country.

    ernie_lynch
    Member

    Well it’s certainly easy to point to facts. IIRC Dale Cregan killed 4 people, I can’t see how that is comparable to a typical shooting spree in the US.

    LHS
    Member

    Grenade attacks, a little more of a step on from shootings.

    grum
    Member

    Always easy to point the finger rather than accept there are issues closer to home.

    Well the US has massively higher gun violence than this country. 10.3 gun deaths per 100,000 people as opposed to 0.25. So yes it is easy to point the finger in this case.

    Let’s not even talk about knife crime in this country.

    Always easy to point the finger rather than accept there are issues closer to home. 😉

    ernie_lynch
    Member

    Grenade attacks, a little more of a step on from shootings.

    Do you think the rarity of grenade attacks might be connected to the fact that owning a grenade is illegal in the UK ?

    To pretend that the UK has simular issues with regards to killing sprees as the US is bizarre.

    LHS
    Member

    Always easy to point the finger rather than accept there are issues closer to home

    You can ignore it if you like, but close to 1000 knife related crimes in London alone every month. Not exactly great statistics.

    5thElefant
    Member

    Do you think the rarity of grenade attacks might be connected to the fact that owning a grenade is illegal in the UK ?

    If you legalised them grenade attacks would still be rare. Crossbows are legal. You don’t face a hail of crossbow bolts going to the pub even in the north.

    ernie_lynch
    Member

    close to 1000 knife related crimes in London alone every month. Not exactly great statistics.

    So the fact that carrying a gun is illegal isn’t helping ?

    LHS
    Member

    To pretend that the UK has simular issues with regards to killing sprees as the US is bizarre

    To ignore our own problems and concentrate on another countries is even more bizarre.

    😯

    ernie_lynch
    Member

    If you legalised them grenade attacks would still be rare.

    Well I don’t understand why owning a grenade is illegal then.

    Right I’m out of here.

    .

    EDIT : “To ignore our own problems” Because of course I argued that the UK was free of all social and crime related problems ? Priceless ! 😀

    5thElefant
    Member

    Well I don’t understand why owning a grenade is illegal then.

    Nanny state?

    grum
    Member

    You can ignore it if you like, but close to 1000 knife related crimes in London alone every month. Not exactly great statistics.

    To ignore our own problems and concentrate on another countries is even more bizarre.

    😕

    And they say Americans don’t understand irony (or should that be hypocrisy). You’re American right?

    And the answer to our knife crime problem is to legalise guns I suppose?

    LHS
    Member

    You’re American right?

    Nope.

    Just find it bizarre that a nation who has HUGE social issues and a knife crime culture spiralling out of control is so transfixed on solving another nations problems first.

    Guns / Grenades / Knives – they all kill people. Only just recently we had a horrific machete attack in broad daylight on the streets of London.

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Subscriber

    Any person who has psychological issues like these cases will find a weapon and kill people. No amount of legislation will stop that.

    Quite, but it’s the nature of that weapon that’s the issue. Would you rather a nutter go on a spree with a breadknife or with an assault rifle?

    Just find it bizarre that a nation who has HUGE social issues and a knife crime culture spiralling out of control is so transfixed on solving another nations problems first.

    What do national boundaries have to do with it?

    Premier Icon wwaswas
    Subscriber

    Only just recently we had a horrific machete attack in broad daylight on the streets of London.

    which would have been a lot less horrific if the perpetrators had had easy access to automatic weapons?

    The UK gangs seem to be about where the US ones were in the 60’s and 70’s with knife crime. Let’s hope it doesn’t escalate to guns the way it has done in the US.

    gonefishin
    Member

    You can ignore it if you like, but close to 1000 knife related crimes in London alone every month. Not exactly great statistics.

    You know the first thing that listening to More or Less on R4 (A program I heartily recommend) as taught me is that when presented with a big number like that you should always ask is “is it a big number?”. It certainly appears to be big but given that there are just over 8 million people in London it may not be. There is also no comparison with any other data with which to compare it. Additionally there is the question of what constitutes “knife related crime”? Does stealing a kitchen knife from a shop count, does being threatened (but not harmed) by someone carrying a knife count, does the knife have to be visible for it to count? Basically you’ve thrown out an irrelevant number in the hope of distracting from the valid criticism of gun deaths in the US. Not a very good debating technique really.

    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    And the answer to our knife crime problem is to legalise guns I suppose?

    ….or hand grenades? 😀

    The UK gangs seem to be about where the US ones were in the 60’s and 70’s with knife crime. Let’s hope it doesn’t escalate to guns the way it has done in the US.

    Unlikely unless they start selling assault rifles in Tesco

    Premier Icon rickmeister
    Subscriber

    Its desperately tragic that (I think), the NRA said after teh school shooting that a bad guy with a gun could be stopped by a good guy with a gun..

    So here we have a bad guy with a gun in a building full of good guys with guns….

    I remember getting into this conversation with a guy in a bar on the quayside in New York, basically, it came down to the fact he didn’t feel safe or properly dressed without “Mr Heckler and Mr Koch”. Sure enough, he was carrying a gun… and did so every day.

    I can’t understand it in 2013… just seems nuts. But the public gets what the public wants I suppose.

    grum
    Member

    You’re American right?
    Nope.

    Could have sworn you’ve said you were American on previous threads. You’ve certainly been weirdly defensive about America before.

    Just find it bizarre that a nation who has HUGE social issues and a knife crime culture spiralling out of control is so transfixed on solving another nations problems first.

    We have a ‘knife crime culture spiralling out of control’ and ‘HUGE social issues’? Maybe London does, I don’t know but things seem pretty peachy in general in this country.

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