Mbnut – Member
Weeksy which Formula do you have… I haven’t had this problem.

perhaps your set have a touch too much fluid in and that is stopping the pistons going all the way back.

I’ve had K18’s, k24’s and a Mega. The Mega is currently the worst for this i’ve had, i have been thinking about it since this thread and may try swapping the rotor off for a thinner one…. i don’t think it’s a Formula rotor.

I’ve just ordered a set of digital vernier calipers to measure and see if my rotors are different thicknesses.

Mine *were* great, but have become increasinly difficult to bleed and go spongy pretty quickly. I’m fed up too.

Maybe theres an internal seal thats weak or degrading over time?

Problem is the discounts on new sets, and RRP for spares, means its usually cheaper buying a new set and selling the old one for spares.

I have a really old set of Juicys that have worked fine for ages too, apart from the fiddly pad change.

Mine *were* great, but have become increasinly difficult to bleed and go spongy pretty quickly. I’m fed up too.

Maybe theres an internal seal thats weak or degrading over time?

yep, same as my experience. When they’re sorted they are amszing but degrade. Mechanic in skyline cycles said the seals are rubbish and perish often due to the dot fluid

I say embrace the maintenance. Try not taking brakes to shops. You may actually save time and money when you are familir with a system. Avids are not that user friendly when it comes to servicing compared to others. Find a system thats easy to maintain such as hope and keep on top of the maintenannce with planned preventative maintenance. If you love your sport it’s time well invested. You might even enjoy doing it!

Strange the problems we seem to be having with Avids. Have got some Juicy carbons, 2 x J3s, Elixir 5s, some M596s and some M785s and you know, they are all the same

Some of them feel different and some setups are more powerful than others but the brake + caliper 😕 …I just pull the lever and I slow down. Over and over and over again until the pads wear out, then I put some fresh ones in and repeat.

The 596s needed bleeding from new but the others…one of the J3s is four years old and has needed no attention apart from infrequent cleaning and a steady diet of pads

I’ve had K18’s, k24’s and a Mega. The Mega is currently the worst for this i’ve had, i have been thinking about it since this thread and may try swapping the rotor off for a thinner one…. i don’t think it’s a Formula rotor.

I’ve just ordered a set of digital vernier calipers to measure and see if my rotors are different thicknesses.

That’s the problem I had with Juices before I ditched them. Formula’s run pretty close but only scrape when it’s wet and gritty.

I’ve have K18, K24, Original Mega, and RX.
The K18s are fine but they are the least used.
K24s needed bleedy quite often and the levers were slow to return.
Megas are amazing when working BUT often have massive lever travel before anything happens (even with the adjuster set for min movement). 2 LBSs have looked at them a both have said that a bleed is not needed and to just take out the wheel occasionally and pump the lever a bit and replace wheel. This works but only for a ride or two.
RXs are pretty new and work well but have just started to need resetting every now and again like the Megas.
I would go to Shimano but I irrationally like all my bikes to have the same brake brand.

Mr Blobby + 1
Avid Juicy 7’s and Elixir CR, yes faff to bleed right but once a year job and no worries in between

My son had Juicys on his Felt which never worked properly from brand new despite many trips back to the shop. He eventually replaced them with Formulas which have been no trouble. A riding mate ditched Juicys because of endless problems but replaced them with Elixirs. Every ride involves some faff with his brakes. How have Avid got away with such negative feedback? Is it because they do really good prices for OE?
I certainly can’t see why anybody would actually buy any.

Although I have a theory that anyone who says Avids are no problem, don’t actually ride much, especially when its wet/muddy etc

I don’t ride much at the minute but I used my Juicy 5s for the majority of a season of riding every day in Whistler and all I had to do in that time was replace the pads.. not bad at all for a set of 2nd hand brakes I bought in about 2008 imo (and I didn’t even bother bleeding them before I went)! Compare that with the brand new Shimano that has only ever seen Woburn/Chicksands and already having major problems..

Sell them on EBay and buy either Shimano or Magura. Both great brakes that are easy to bleed and work well in all conditions. I’ve got both and had no issues with either, the Maguras haven’t been touched for 3 years done 2 trips to the alps and the only thing they’ve had is new pads.

Maguras are good brakes…they also back them up with a 5 year leak proof warranty on the levers, cylinders and caliper.
i ran a julie as a rear brake for about 9 years on the original seals before it finally gave up the ghost last weekend.

The old Avis story

Im convinced that all Avid/SRAM stuff is made to keep the market afloat. You can tell by how cheap they sell build kits to manufacturers, hence why all the good deals (on paper) are kitted out with SRAM build kits. Anyone who buys it to retro fit is paying massively over the odds for what its actually worth compared to Shimano who hold their price accross the board.

Basically sometimes you hit lucky with Avid brakes, mosly you dont so use them till they die, bleed them and let some mug buy them on ebay and replace with Shimano.

Once the love has been let out thats it, just get shot!

For further evidence just look at a group of riders bikes who ride lots for example in the peaks but arent riddled with funds, 9 out 0r 10 will run Shimano drive and brakes, Maxxis tyres, Hope hubs, Mavic rims, etc.

Its not coincidence, it tried and tested and surprisingly doesnt come fitted a=on build kits as its a premium product that wont need replacing so does shops no good and costs more to build into a new bike

i have liked formulas all the way but the new R1 race set i have refuse to work properly and all the movement in the pads is one sided(same side front and back). tried everything and cant get them to work equally or even close. seems to be a common problem. i emailed formula but lazy **** never replied.

I detest my mk1 SLXs. Bought them as a replacement for my mk2 XTs which were bonkers good and thought new SLXs would be even better. How wrong.

Hard to bleed, power is well down vs the old XTs, difficult to adjust to get the right bite point. Going to palm them off on some poor unsuspecting sap on the classifieds soon I think…

I’ve just ordered a set of digital vernier calipers to measure and see if my rotors are different thicknesses.

Here you go weeksy, I did this a few months back on some of my rotors:

Avid – 1.80
Formula – 1.75
Alligator – 1.74

didnt have a shimano rotor about but it’ll be in same ballpark.

The original Avids were designed by Formula, and were mechanically identical – so much so that I used the (far better) Avid bleed kit on my Formulas for years.

No experience of Avids, but Formulas responded really well to being bled very carefully and methodically. Pinkbike has an excellent video guide.

I’ve used Hope for yonks (C2, O2, Mini, Mono Mini) Formula (K18 and K24) and most recently Shimano (SLX and Deore). Bang for buck, the Shimanos work very well indeed for me – I’ve just bought a pair of the new Deores for a new build, because I couldn’t justify the extra cost of the more expensive sets out there. Formulas were a rather involved brake to bleed, Hope was excellent, but you could get spares for everything for a reason – C2 and O2 were as reliable as all get-out (I used them in the Alps very successfully, with minimal faff), but the Mini in particular was a pain. Mono Mini a significant improvement, and possibly my favourite brakes.

My Experiences:

Avid Juicy 7s: Worked almost flawlessly for 5 years although rear one now requires a bleed. Pads fiddly to change, especially out on the trail in sh*tty weather but which brakes aren’t?

Elixirs: worked fine for a year til I did a week in the alps. I bled the rear brake and its again working perfectly with no issues. Pads much easier to change than the juicys.

fenred – Member

I’ve just ordered a set of digital vernier calipers to measure and see if my rotors are different thicknesses.

Here you go weeksy, I did this a few months back on some of my rotors:

Avid – 1.80
Formula – 1.75
Alligator – 1.74

didnt have a shimano rotor about but it’ll be in same ballpark

Thank you… Not convinced that’s enough of a difference either way for that to be the issue. Even if i push the pistons back, i then get say 0.5mm either side of the rotor. Once i pull to bring it back in, it’s down to microns…. almost impossible to get no rub/binding.

Must admit I sypathise with the OP.

Got Elixier 3’s on mine, love the brakes when working, not really had much to compare with though. But I have had them for about 6 months and had to bleed them 2-3 times already. 1st time my fault to be fair.

But Bled the back brake recently and it didn’t work at all (before or after), so thought it was a problem with them, took back to shop where I bought the bike from and they bleed it for me and was more successful than I was. Saved me a small fortune, as I was prepared to buy a new set of Shimano SLX or XT’s. (still cost £30.00)

any way two more rides since being bleed and the same back brake has gone all mushy again??

Still under warrenty, but don’t want to be with out a brkae while they are sent away to get fixed again, and Yes £30.00 or so each time they need bleeding I can live without. Don’t know why they didn’t work when I tried it, it isn’t like I haven’t done is successfully before.

Ahhh feel better for getting that off my chest. until my next ride that is 😕

well considering you can buy Deores for £35 on Merlin you only saved a Fiver and still have crap brakes 😉

Why do I keep reading the thread title as “I rate my hakes”?

I know it’s not going to be about his pet fish 🙁

Pads fiddly to change, especially out on the trail in sh*tty weather but which brakes aren’t?

shimano.

Ahahaha – As soon as I read the thread title – I thought Avid Elixirs; I was right 😛

I have elixir 5’s and they can be a pain at times. I want some hopes, my only issue with shimano’s is that I can’t take them apart.

Heres a tip, ride with new pads for four to five rides, when you are home change for new pads, put part worn pads in your trail pack so when needed to change on trail they’ll slot straight in, and they will bed in very quickly too

You wont be dissapointed with the slx , they’re superb .
A different league from most elixirs i’ve ridden .

My older SLX’s leaked. My newer ones don’t and are stoopidly powerful.

My 6yr old M4’s have been faultless. I got them rebuilt last year but only because I thought they were due a treat for such faultless service. They don’t have the initial bite of the SLX but still have no problems slowing me down.

Most people I know with Avids have had problems.

I’ve got avid elixirs and can’t wait to rid myself of them.all the bad press here though I might be hard pressed to sell in the for sale section!

the only thing wrong with elixirs is they need to be bled to perfection, most back shed mechanics and even some bike shops seem unable to do this though.

Thing is, Avids can be fine but there’s better brakes that aren’t so temperamental, so you’d have to be off your nut to choose them. A product doesn’t have to be terrible to be off the shopping list, just less good than its rivals. Which they are. Hope, Formula, Shimano and Magura all have their foibles but you look at the big picture and for each the tradeoff is worth it. With Avid, the tradeoff is mediocrity.

Oh and bloody tri-align! “We’ve noticed that some people have trouble aligning brakes along the one axis they can move in, so we’ve decided that the solution is to add more movement! Until they wear anyway, at which point they’ll probably be stuck permanently squinty”. FFS.

Best preventative maintenance I did to my Elixirs was selling them fast, when they were new. Best thing about Shimano brakes for me is the sintered pads, powerful, long lasting and quiet in the wet. For that reason alone I’ll choose shimano.

Shame EVERYU new bike I look at comes fitted with Elixirs… 🙁

Never had a problem with any of my juicies, got two sets of 5 and one 7. Don’t really find the bleeding to be that challenging, nor changing pads that hard. Each to their own I guess. That’s the good thing about a free market, go out and try the competition!

Avids are fine as long as you steer clear of Juicy 3s (perhaps the other Juicys but have no experience of them so can’t comment).

Elixir range is fine generally if treated right.

Biggest problem I feel is too many people jump in and start bleeding them. That’s where problems start to begin. Stop bleeding and try making adjustments.

Change pads for starters. “Squishy brakes, oh bleed them” when it’s the pads are worn right down. New pads, firm braking again. Fiddle with the bite adjust if you have it. Though I find the Elixir and higher X series stuff self adjusts for wear so there’s less fiddling required (Juicys never adjusted).

Good trick if the levers are pulling to the bars or squidgy – wheel out, lever the pistons right back (flat bladed screwdriver or a pad spreader tool), one to two little squeezes on the brake lever, and put the wheel back in. Trust me, it will be loads better 😉

On the bleeding, if you really feel you must, first try overnight tying the levers to the bars with rope or cable ties (with wheel in or with pad stoppers), and leave it like that. Next day chances are it’s loads better. Though probably indicates it really does need a bleed if you keep having to do that. I’ve only ever had to do that with Juicys though.

What are Hayes like these days? I had a pair some years ago and they were dreadful, wooden and totally devoid of feel. Surely they must have improved!

I have Hayes carbon and trail on my 2 bikes there class. To replace these it would have to deore or xt

Aye..I’d like to add my vote for shimano xt775 brakes, have them on both bikes and havent had to bleed them since fitting them.

Matt – I think I must be the only person who likes Hayes brakes. My HFX 9’s and Mags were great, super powerful and never needed out doing to them. Newest Hayes brakes I’ve had have been Stroker Aces, which were pretty good; a fair amount of power, more modulation than previous brakes but sloppy levers.

I’ve recently replaced my Ace’s with some XT 775’s and I’m not totally convinced yet. The levers are so ugly, but the blade is a nice shape. My biggest gripe is the slightly mushy lever feel despite being sent back to Rose bikes who sent them back to Shimano in Germany. The power isn’t as amazing as I thought it would be.

tri align? No problems with it here.

When it comes to bleeding, use 1 syringe first at the calliper, then do the lever, allowing the lever to hang down on the bar helps more bubbles to come out. I don’t bother with the bleeding the line since when I have bled it not a single bubble. IMO it makes more sense to do a quick 1 syringe (also only 1 syringe to degas) bleed every 6 months.

I have to say though my main gripe really when I think about is the Dot 5.1 fluid, disposing of it, taking precautions with it. A right PITA, I am so tempted by the shimano deore brakes ATM.

Mucky. Can you expand on what you mean by “let the lever hang on bars “.
I tend to move lever until bleed port is at highest point.

Brakes are fitted and just did a test ride. Wow! absolutely amazing. i can endo. The power is immense

Can;t wait to try them out on the trail