FFS.

You can do something stupid without being stupid all of the time.

we were discussing whether this was a wise way to view things

Is it wise? A good question.

If I truly believe in God, then I truly feel that:

– There is ultimately absolute justice and fairness in the world
– I am loved no matter what
– I will be judged with infinite compassion
– I do not fear death
– I will meet my loved ones in heaven and be with them forever

So on that basis I am pretty happy. Seems wise enough to me.

However, a wise course of action for me now is to go to bed. Night.

PS

Of course it’s knowable, he could pop up tomorrow in Trafalgar Square and yell “Psych! Oh my Me, that was a laugh.

How would you know for sure it was God?

You can do something stupid without being stupid all of the time.

I know, but it is semantics as when I said people of faith were stupid, I meant the being of faith bit, as they probably are not stupid in everything they do, just as they might not be “of faith” in everything they do.

Anyway I don’t mind, I’m happy to tow the line with “are stupid/or doing stupid things” as you have to all intents and purposes agreed with my assertion that being of faith is a stupid thing. Or I would happily say that you have convinced me that people of faith are not stupid, its just they are being stupid with the faith bit.

other clever people are constantly trying to disprove what we know, and the first clever people welcome and encourage this.

There are plenty of arguments in philosophy and theology as well, you just may not be as well apprised of them.

I know, but it is semantics as when I said people of faith were stupid, I meant the being of faith bit, as they probably are not stupid in everything they do, just as they might not be “of faith” in everything they do.

I think it’s an important distinction, and I thank you for clarifying it. I think it is philosophy rather than theology we do not agree on – but who does?

To wrap things up for this evening then – I consider myself on the shore of a great ocean of knowledge, experience and wisdom, gazing out over it. I’m not clever or educated enough to dive in and have a swim, but at least I know it’s there and I’m looking at it! I would encourage everyone to do the same.

well I dunno, do you believe in god?

We MIGHT never know? I do not think there even is an answer, in scientific terms.

I can’t even begin to speculate what we might or might not know in the future. When we discover we can split the quark we might find a stamp on it saying “(c) nine billion BC, God Industries Inc.” I think you’re probably right, but I couldn’t be certain.

It’s a paradox, isn’t it?

It is. It’s an inordinately difficult concept to grasp in human terms, not least because we have a fundamental problem dealing with very large and very small scales. My understanding is that the ‘universe’ is the matter which is expanding into an infinite vacuum; but that in itself raises questions like ‘where’s all this vacuum come from?’

The idea that God exists is a great way to resolve this.

Sure. It’s effectively ‘lies to children’; the truth is really difficult to comprehend and we’re not really sure ourselves, so here’s a convenient answer to keep you quiet until we work it out.

I’ve got more for you – how do you know we aren’t all in the petri dish of some scientist or other? This could all be the frickin’ Matrix, and you’d never ever ever know. It would not even be possible to know.

‘s true. You lot could be the figment of my imagination for all I know. In which case, when the experiment is concluded I’m booking a psychiatric evaluation. (-:

There are plenty of arguments in philosophy and theology as well, you just may not be as well apprised of them.

I don’t doubt it, and you’re right, I’m not. I’d expect though that the peer review system functions a little differently.

To wrap things up for this evening then – I consider myself on the shore of a great ocean of knowledge, experience and wisdom, gazing out over it. I’m not clever or educated enough to dive in and have a swim, but at least I know it’s there and I’m looking at it! I would encourage everyone to do the same.

Wow. Well said.

Me, I like to paddle, and try and stop people from weeing in it.

how do you know we aren’t all in the petri dish of some scientist or other? This could all be the frickin’ Matrix, and you’d never ever ever know. It would not even be possible to know.

Yes but this goes back to the idea of proving what exists rather than what doesn’t, if we were in someones petri dish one day we might have the technology to find out. In the meantime anything else is idle speculation, and some of that idle speculation has manifested itself in god, which has given power to some people over others, even to the point of using this idle speculation as a rationale for killing each other..

Ooh look another page.

It is. It’s an inordinately difficult concept to grasp in human terms

No, it’s not difficult, it’s fundamentally impossible. It’s not possible to frame any kind of answer in terms other than those of the universe. You might as well ask what colour is ultraviolet? It’s outside the framework – the term ‘colour’ just doesn’t apply.

don’t be daft, ultra violet is the same colour as violet, but ultra.

hhmmm … to conclude …

Science = arrogance of limited knowledge.

Creator God = the domain of the delusional.

Both very similar and absolute in their definite end by calling themselves the “truth”.

🙄

Science = arrogance of limited knowledge.

I can’t say this thread defined that in anyway?

I think it was einstein who said
” as the pool of light grows, so the circumference of darkness around it increases.”

And that’s not to even consider the question of what God might actually be if it were to exist.

*runs away*

toys19 – Member

Science = arrogance of limited knowledge.

I can’t say this thread defined that in anyway?

Rephrase … our pea brain trying to get better of us by making us believe that with science we always assume we know better.

Rephrase … our pea brain trying to get better of us by making us believe that with science we always assume we know better.

Well I dunno if I agree with that either, I think science is ok, we have an open mind but use our convictions based on observations to achieve stuff. If we were not arrogant in our convictions then we wouldn’t be able to make shit hot mountain bikes..

You might as well ask what colour is ultraviolet?

You might as well ask what colour is red, given that it’s our brains which manifest the idea of colour. By extension, UV isn’t outside the framework, it’s just that our eyes don’t have quite wide enough frequency response.

hhmmm … to conclude troll …

FTFY.

Straw man argument. Science doesn’t generally deal in absolutes like “truth”. Generally, any known truths are just theories yet to be disproven.

toys19 – Member

Well I dunno if I agree with that either, I think science is ok, we have an open mind but use our convictions based on observations to achieve stuff. If we were not arrogant in our convictions then we wouldn’t be able to make shit hot mountain bikes.

But is hot mountain bike keeping our mind at peace? Or it merely helps us to assume we are at peace? The moment it does not contribute to any increment in peace we seek for more … hotter bikes … our craving increase. 😯

molgrips – Member

And that’s not to even consider the question of what God might actually be if it were to exist.

*runs away*

Just a concept of dominance.

Cougar, colour is defined as frequency within a range definedthan by humane eyes. Anything outside it cannot have a colour, by definition. I could have chosen a different analogy.

I just thought it was an interesting diversion.

Email this morning,

IsChurchForMe.com (@IsChurchForMe) is now following you on Twitter!?

Must be divine intervention.

I just thought it was an interesting diversion.

The colour thing is an interesting diversion. Colour is actually a mind blowing concept..

So perhaps after 24 pages of debate STW has proved the philosopher Anthony Flew correct

The idea of God is philosophically (and scientifically?) meaningless, since it cannot be falsified

He summed it up in 1,000 words though not 24 pages!!!

(nice parable (sic) of the Gardener in his famous Theology and Falsification Essay)

Anyway.

What tyres would God use for summer in the UK ?.

Assuming they ride 26″

“Email this morning,

IsChurchForMe.com (@IsChurchForMe) is now following you on Twitter!?

Must be divine intervention.”

LOL … Nothing to do with me… but you’re getting it from all angles.

When are you gonna, to paraphase the matrix that you guys were taling about earlier… take the red pill ??

Is this discussion meaningful?

H1! You must be new here.

Whoppit, if Flew is to be believed then No!!

Is anything meaningful?

Yes “meaning”, it’s full of the stuff.

What do we mean when we say “meaning”?

What do we mean when we say “meaning”?

Dont know mate.