Viewing 26 posts - 41 through 66 (of 66 total)
  • I am no longer a cyclist.
  • Premier Icon DezB
    Full Member

    I’m also a motorist who tries to be considerate to more vulnerable road users because, well, I’m not a bully and it’s never ever made me take longer to get where I’m going.

    Ooh no! You can’t call yourself a “motorist”. A good 90% of ‘them’ are arseholes and you’ve just lumped yourself in the same category.

    Premier Icon amedias
    Free Member

    Other than the cycling proficiency that I did in 1982, the motorcycle test I did in 1990 and the thousands of commuting miles I did in the 1990’s, early noughties, I have had no road cycling test credentials.
    I will look into the Bikeability course on your recommendation. I am always open to learning. I even saw great value in the ‘driver awareness’ course I did a few years ago which most people seem to poopoo as a waste of time.

    Good stuff Jef πŸ™‚ It’s well worth it, you might find that it opens your eyes to new ideas, new perspectives and new techniques. On the other hand you might find it teaches you nothing new at all, but if that’s the case it will at least reassure you that you do know what you’re doing. At the very least I would think it will remind you of some things you did already know.

    It is the default standard that is used in the UK to teach kids too, so well worth while to know what will get taught to your own kids if they ever go on a course and allow you to reinforce it and add your own thoughts and interpretation to what they might learn, and remind them that as I’m sure you’ve found, you never stop learning even if you have every qualification going.

    It is very much about travelling efficiently but in safety, not just recognising danger, but also teaching skills for how to actively prevent dangerous situations from happening, and accidentally putting yourself in them. Sometimes that is about taking charge of your position and being assertive, and sometimes it’s about yielding, as always there’s more shades of grey than an E.L James novel πŸ˜‰

    I recently did one of the Sutrans Ride Leader courses as it was a requirement to allow me to lead group rides under their banner with the charity I volunteer with, and despite having been riding since my pre-teens, racing and commuting, and being well aware of bikeability and other schools of thought I found it reminded me of just how daunting riding, route planning, interpreting junctions and traffic flows can be for a novice rider, something that everyone should remember, not everyone is as skilled or experienced and what might seem obvious or easy to you might not be to another rider.

    Premier Icon GrahamS
    Full Member

    I understand the OP’s point but if they recognise all the nonsense about the Motorist vs Cyclist wars, “road tax”, and the problems with out-group mentality and labelling then why not say:

    “I am no longer a motorist”?

    Cyclists (and people who ride bikes sometimes) are starting to make some changes in this country. They are starting to be heard. The fact there are so many news stories and “anti” sentiment about is just evidence of that.

    Premier Icon brooess
    Free Member

    I will look into the Bikeability course on your recommendation. I am always open to learning.

    Cyclecraft

    Well worth a read too. Gives you more time to reflect on what you get taught in the few hours of a Bikeability session

    Premier Icon Richie_B
    Full Member

    Looking at the price of the Trek bike on the home page I can’t afford to be a cyclist any more.

    Premier Icon ti_pin_man
    Free Member

    I love it when somebody pokes the hornets nest with a big stick, now we have the swarm of cyclist circling for the kill, pesky things, nothing a good skip lorry with a billion blind spots couldn’t get rid of.

    Premier Icon GrahamS
    Full Member

    I no longer use the word ‘cyclist’ and I largely agree that it is dehumanising, setting us apart as ‘other’. All those tweets from morons that start ‘I hit a cyclist today lol’ would sound less of laugh if they were ‘I hit a man/woman riding a bike today’.

    Now this I agree with. As one of those ranty campaigner types that the OP dislikes I often deliberately say “person on a bike” instead of “cyclist” when discussing issues with fellow road users because the term “cyclist” is so loaded with subtext and it’s often disarming to remind them that it’s just someone’s dad/brother/son trying to get home from work, same as them.

    Premier Icon Jef Wachowchow
    Free Member

    Oh, and I am a mountain biker. However, I do not live within cycling distance of any mountains.

    I used to get told off for calling my bike a ‘mountain bike’ by a guy I used to work with.
    “It is not a mountain bike as we do not ride on mountains down here in Hampshire. It is an all terrain bicycle”.
    Yup, he was weird as hell.

    Premier Icon Solo
    Free Member

    Yup, he was weird as hell.

    He’ll fit right in, round these parts.
    πŸ˜‰

    Premier Icon ThePinkster
    Full Member

    As one of those ranty campaigner types that the OP dislikes

    Err.. where did I say I disliked ranty campaigners?

    Premier Icon Bez
    Full Member

    The word “cyclist” undoubtedly greases the wheels of division. It’s a label for a minority, an outgroup, and you only have to look at how it is used alongside “them”, for instance, to see how it’s used to dehumanise and to reinforce people’s disdain.

    It matters little whether you struggle to see past its sterile, contextless dictionary definition: it’s part of the armoury of the bigot, and whether you’d prefer to reclaim the word or consign it to the bin or you’re ambivalent about it, I think it needs to be recognised that in almost all contexts it becomes divisive and unhelpful, and it hinders progress.

    Premier Icon GrahamS
    Full Member

    Err.. where did I say I disliked ranty campaigners?

    Well you specifically cited the “‘Cyclists don’t pay road tax’ arguments” – something I regularly bat down when discussing cycling with other road users.

    ..you only have to look at how it is used alongside “them”, for instance, to see how it’s used to dehumanise and to reinforce people’s disdain.

    Yay Bez is here πŸ˜€

    Yep, the classic example is that the headlines are always “Cyclist Hit By Car” and never “Cyclist Hit By Motorist” or “Bicycle Hit By Car”.

    Premier Icon cookeaa
    Full Member

    @corroded

    That Seattle article is actually very interesting, it really drives home the idea that the language/phraseology used is almost more important than the points you are making…

    Living in the age of the quick sound-bite, making sure the messages that get across are more generally positive and less polarising is actually surprisingly difficult…

    We’re almost all programmed now to make any discussion into an “X Vs Y” argument, the things you re in favour of meaning the things you are “Against” can be neatly correlated and implied for you…

    Remaining strong willed and actually training yourself to use only positive, carefully selected language is a challenge…

    The “Conversation” here in the UK is not like that presently, I think it could change, but it needs some careful thought and the right spokespersons/advocates for those other “transport choices”….

    This all comes back to the OP’s sentiment, the current narrative portrayed through the press is quite narrow and doesn’t give a rounded picture… Hence I can sort of understand his feelings, If you give up the term “Cyclist” I think you need to adopt Person who rides Bicycles” instead.

    Premier Icon tealeith
    Free Member

    Did anyone hear about some mentalist from the Prudential Ride 100 yesterday? There was an individual(on a bike) trying to hit people with a hammer. This was a real hammer by the way, not a toy one.

    This was around Forest Green I believe. One of the marshalls told me. Luckily, the police caught him. Incredible that this doesn’t appear to have made the news anywhere.

    The person involved obviously didn’t like “cyclists” either.

    Premier Icon Bez
    Full Member

    Yep, the classic example is that the headlines are always “Cyclist Hit By Car” and never “Cyclist Hit By Motorist” or “Bicycle Hit By Car”.

    True, though I think that’s probably born of simple awkwardness of the terminology rather than even a subconscious bias: “bicycle hit by car” sounds a bit odd as it makes it seem like there was no-one on the bicycle, while “cyclist hit by motorist” arguably implies blame. Fundamentally, such a collision does generally physically involve the “cyclist” and the car but not the “motorist”, regardless of where fault lies. There are a lot of problematic phrasings that get used in reporting but IMHO this particular one is relatively low on the list.

    Premier Icon ThePinkster
    Full Member

    Well you specifically cited the “‘Cyclists don’t pay road tax’ arguments” – something I regularly bat down when discussing cycling with other road users.

    since when have arguments been campaigning?

    It’s the pointless one side against another arguing that I’m getting disillusioned about, the proper campaigning by organisations such as, but not limited to, CTC (and yes, I am a member and have been for over 20 years) I am all for.

    If people stopped arguing and started looking perhaps they’d stop seeing the cyclist and start seeing people on bikes.

    A couple of times in this thread there have been allusions to ‘them winning’ (I’m paraphrasing here). What have ‘they’ won? It’s not a war why is it always seen as ‘them’ and ‘us’, why not just ‘We’?

    Premier Icon Bez
    Full Member

    There was an individual(on a bike) trying to hit people with a hammer.

    Uh huh?

    Premier Icon loddrik
    Free Member

    I’ve never been a cyclist. I have very little in common with cyclists other than I enjoy riding my bike. Many ‘cyclists’ take themselves far too seriously and just seem like tits to me.

    Premier Icon cookeaa
    Full Member

    True, though I think that’s probably born of simple awkwardness of the terminology rather than even a subconscious bias: “bicycle hit by car” sounds a bit odd as it makes it seem like there was no-one on the bicycle, while “cyclist hit by motorist” arguably implies blame. Fundamentally, such a collision does generally physically involve the “cyclist” and the car but not the “motorist”, regardless of where fault lies. There are a lot of problematic phrasings that get used in reporting but IMHO this particular one is relatively low on the list.

    It’s using the the word “Hit” as well, “Collide/Collision” implies less blame:

    “Motorist and person on bicycle involved in a collision”

    Is about as neutral as you could hope to make such a statement/headline…

    Premier Icon GrahamS
    Full Member

    It is funny how corrosive “cyclist” can be.

    Newcastle Council have recently activated cameras on a few bus lanes, so they can fine the drivers who ignore them.

    Despite the fact that this measure is targeted at drivers performing illegal manoeuvres and the fact that these lanes are reserved for buses, taxis, motorcycles, authorised vehicles and cyclists, guess which group gets the slagging* in the comments?

    * (road tax, insurance, lycra clad, Tour de France wannabes, three abreast, no license, no plates, holding up traffic, being illegal, blah blah blah)

    Premier Icon amedias
    Free Member

    I’ve never been a cyclist. I have very little in common with cyclists other than I enjoy riding my bike. Many ‘cyclists’ take themselves far too seriously and just seem like tits to me.

    You probably have more in common than you think you do.

    Premier Icon loddrik
    Free Member

    I think it’s plain to see which side if the fence you fall on though… 😯

    And I feel weird….
    Been really tired today, and as a result of loads of ‘other’ thing that needed doing I’ve not been out for my normal Sunday ride today and it’s put me in a really funny mood
    Kinda weird mix between itchy feet and being glad of the rest, and feeling guilty (?!) Out of curiosity I checked my Strava log for 2015 and this is only the 9th day in 2015 that I’ve not ridden a bike, so appears I’m suffering some kind of withdrawal.
    Anyone else struggle if they have a day off?

    Premier Icon richmtb
    Full Member

    If there is a negative connotation with the term “cyclist” then it needs to be challenged not accepted

    Otherwise where does it end?

    “Oh look there’s one of those bloody people who ride bikes!”

    Slight clumsier than “Bloody cyclist!” I admit but I don’t think changing the phraseology changes the prejudice.

    We should challenge the prejudice instead.

    And yes I am comfortable with being a “cyclist”

    Premier Icon amedias
    Free Member

    Loddrik what I mean is that you and the hypothetical cyclist are both people, with parents, spouses, children? friends, family, you both have hobbies you like, places to go, people to see, things to do.

    Just because they might put some of their energy and passion into one activity more than you might, doesn’t mean you have nothing in common, and labelling them as different/outsiders who you have no common ground with is exactly the kind of thing we’re discussing.

    I think in the grand scheme of things you would find many more similarities than differences, and to coin a phrase “can’t we all just get along?”

    …stuff about me…

    Nice thread history stalk BTW, top work! πŸ˜‰

    Premier Icon GrahamS
    Full Member

    since when have arguments been campaigning?

    It’s the pointless one side against another arguing that I’m getting disillusioned about, the proper campaigning by organisations such as, but not limited to, CTC

    Us vs Them tribalism doesn’t help, agreed, but to my mind there is no point in groups like the CTC being a lone voice in the wilderness.

    The message that CTC and other campaigns have needs to be repeated by others if it has any hope of being heard. After all, how many non-cyclists read CTC material?

    The “road tax” misconception is an interesting example, as recently I’ve noticed that other road users are more knowledgeable about the fact that it “doesn’t exist”.

    I think this is probably due to people shooting down that popular misconception so often that is has made national news on a few occasions:

    BBC: Is there any such thing as ‘road tax’?
    The Guardian: Cyclists are not road tax dodgers
    The Guardian: Road tax, red lights and lycra: the cycling ignorance quiz
    The Times: Cyclists and β€œroad tax”: the truth

    So the truth of the situation has slowly entered the popular psyche.

    (Just in time for Gideon to move the goalposts)

    Premier Icon mattyfez
    Free Member

    I’m having an identity crisis, sometimes I drive a car, and sometimes I ride a bike, if that wasn’t bad enough, I’ve also been known to walk, row a boat and ski.

    I’m really struggling to pigeon hole myself.. Maybe I should see a shrink πŸ˜€

    On a more serious not, the notion is ridiculous, anyone who is riding a bike is a cyclist, just as any one who is driving is a driver.

Viewing 26 posts - 41 through 66 (of 66 total)

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