Footflaps just beat me to it – of the 40bn, approx 15-20bn will be recouped in tax receipts. Whilst at the same time boosting employment, manufacturing etc. Plus hopefully meaning we can hold on to as much of our haemorrhaging hi-tech industry as possible.

iirc it’s the same argument the US Gov has for building Nimitz class carriers – spend 6bn but get 3bn back in tax, plus all the other benefits.

I agree it is very London-centric though, and the net result will invariably be jobs moving to the south east.

Sadly the tunnels trought he penines linking manchester to sheffield where closed a while ago, and filled wih cables pipes etc to stop them being reused as a high speed link

More significantly, like most of our rail infrastructure it’s 150 years old and not remotely suitable for European gauge trains to use.

no it won’t, HS2 won’t create a fast link between any towns/cities that aren’t already linked by fast trains.

(i din’t know that leeds/manchester was getting electrified, that’s good news!)

I don’t get it – Leeds to Manchester takes about 55 minutes, loads of trains, quicker than driving. What exactly do you want? 200mph trains on that route? London – Birmingham is a vastly more sensible and beneficial route, you can call it “London centric” if you want, but there’s a fair few more folk making the journey than Leeds – Manchester 😕

That would make Liverpool the biggest & most important port in Europe. Ships could dock, unload and haul the goods by train directly to wherever they need to be in Europe before the ship could have gone round Britain.

The majority of goods coming into Europe will be coming from the far east, it would take longer to get to Liverpool than many other European ports. I also don’t think that Liverpool can handle a lot of the big ships that are now used.

IMO (or eutopian vision) There should be a west coast HS line, from Southampton docks up to Glasgow, an east coat line, London to Edinburgh, plus three east west links. London-Bristol-Cardiff, Liverpool-Manchester-Leeds-Hull, Glasgow-Edinburgh.

It is london centric, but then so is the economy. Theres definitely an argument for moving stuff out of London but i’m not sure if thats more, or less, likely with more rail capacity?

Might be worth pointing out that autonomous cars will be on the road about 15 years before its finished. Google’s autonomous car team has just teamed up with IBM, Cisco and Continental (who already supply lots of car technology to manufacturers).

Its marginally faster for shits loads of money – basically its the 650 b

I may pinch that for future use

scaled – Member

Flight from Manchester to Heathrow – ~£90 (train normally ~£180 odd if booked at short notice)
Taxi to airport – £15
Taxi/Train the other end depending on how many of us are travelling/meeting there

Why post the cheapest of one and the most expensive of the other ?
If you are going to compare do it like for like.
Looking for a trip to London tomorrow from Manchester earliest vacant flight is after 10:00 ariving 11:00 and would cost £180 train turn up 9:10 in London 11:23 £108.
Now next month same date
Flying earliest flight 10:00 £53
Train same times £34
3 months time arriving 7:00 to 8:00
£49 flying
£131 Train

Now thats when the train prices look stupid

Got to be one of the most inefficient way of doing things yet we’ve all bought in to it!

Have we hell. A small but critical number of bosses are still into it because they like the feeling of power that summoning people to them gives. No-one who actually does it likes it, but they would rather do an interesting challenging job and travel than stack biscuits in a local Asda.

MSP – Member The majority of goods coming into Europe will be coming from the far east, it would take longer to get to Liverpool than many other European ports.

Now with NW passage opening up with all these plans and trains competing for global warming Liverpool is ideally placed as the gateway to Europe.

njee20 – Member

I don’t get it – Leeds to Manchester takes about 55 minutes … quicker than driving … What exactly do you want? 200mph trains on that route?

55 minutes, to travel 40miles?

Quicker than driving? – barely, if at all.

no, i don’t want 200mph trains, 90mph would do just fine. ie perfectly normal trains, mundane even.

…there’s a fair few more folk making the journey than Leeds – Manchester

is that because currently, the train between Leeds/Manchester is only slightly faster than sailing along the canal?

Now with NW passage opening up with all these plans and trains competing for global warming Liverpool is ideally placed as the gateway to Europe.

Don’t know if Liverpool can handle massive container ships or not, but I’m fairly sure the Chunnel can’t handle that kind of freight traffic… Think Rotterdam will still get most of the traffic.

The majority of goods coming into Europe will be coming from the far east, it would take longer to get to Liverpool than many other European ports. I also don’t think that Liverpool can handle a lot of the big ships that are now used.

Peel Ports, the old mersey dock company are investing millions in a new chineese import centre at birkenhead, plus new roads and trains, along with a huge new extension to the docks at royal seaforth liverpool to take the biggest ships, all connected to the railways and motorways.They also own the manchester ship canal so easy acces to trafford park and manchester via ship.

I’m all for HS2, reduce short hall flights,

It’ll free up landing slots at Heathrow so they can take more long-haul planes.

no, i don’t want 200mph trains, 90mph would do just fine. ie perfectly normal trains, mundane even.

That route is generally operated by 185s, which have a top speed of 100mph IIRC. So it’s 40 miles, a couple of stops, a bit of a speeding up and slowing down, you’re not really far off!

Don’t know if Liverpool can handle massive container ships or not, but I’m fairly sure the Chunnel can’t handle that kind of freight traffic… Think Rotterdam will still get most of the traffic.

It can handle a lot of freight traffic, the high subsidies and capacity north of London are closer to limiting factors presently.

Passenger services are a bit of a red herring really reckon the main economic advantage of a new line for fast passenger service is that it increases goods capacity vastly, pinch points for the key import points to the UK ie Thames Estuary, Felistowe, South Coast ares starting to get backed up in the midlands as capacity for freight has been increased around London.

Increased goods capacity is certainly going to be needed at some point, HS2 would allow that to happen.

The costs seem to be bonkers though particularly if a new line is going to be franschised out, it’s almost certainly going to be damaging to the rest of the UK if a high speed link to London exists…