Viewing 19 posts - 121 through 139 (of 139 total)
  • HS2 spiralling costs
  • Premier Icon crazy-legs
    Full Member

    Can’t see how it being much faster would make it any better or make sod all difference to the Northern economy. In contrast Manchester to Leeds is an hour on the train, 43 miles vs 208 miles to London.

    It’s not about the speed. Well, not ALL about the speed.
    You HAVE to free up WCML, ECML and tie HS2 in with Northern Powerhouse Rail. The “revised” Phase 2b stuff is being sort of rebranded as “High Speed North” (an acknowledgement that HS2 is rather a toxic brand in itself) but the whole lot is part of the same project.

    You can’t fit true High Speed on the existing lines. You can’t accommodate any more services on the existing lines (especially if you want to add in freight). You HAVE to build a whole new line, put all the fast passenger stuff onto that and then fill in the extra capacity that you’ve created elsewhere with more regional stopping services and more freight.

    HS2 combined with HSN (which massively cuts the jouney times across the Pennines) does all that.

    Part of the problem with HS2 (and this is more a media problem really) is it’s been very badly explained, they’ve fixated on knocking off 20 minutes here, 30 minutes there whereas to most poeple, that time really doesn’t matter. I couldn’t care less about the times (so long as it’s not like, 8hrs). I tend to just go to sleep.

    Of course if we had a vaguely functional Government, they’d have been getting on with this sort of stuff 20 years ago alongside a rolling programme of full electrification, station improvements, infrastructure modernisation and rather better franchise agreements but I guess the voters get what they deserve.

    Premier Icon hamishthecat
    Full Member

    It’s not about speed it’s about increased capacity elsewhere on the network. But £106b could be spent better.

    Premier Icon Murray
    Full Member

    Works well if you’re city centre to city centre. Try Amersham to Knutsford – reliable 3 hours door to door by car, 5.5 hours by public transport if you’re lucky as it’s hub and spoke.

    Premier Icon olaf_hansen
    Free Member

    Sure it’s pretty fast. But is it always that fast, every single time, rain or shine, inside the morning peak, on Sundays or when it’s snowing? HS2 predicts a high level of reliability and resilience.

    Premier Icon kayak23
    Full Member

    Just another day in a mid-apocalyptic wasteland that is Warwickshire just now.

    You really couldn’t make this up.

    Ecologically sensitive area. Keep out!

    Only, this ecologically sensitive area has been flattened by the ***** who put the sign up. 😠

    It’s terrible all of this. I don’t understand how it can be allowed to be happening, I really don’t.

    I also don’t understand how there’s just nothing in the media. It’s not really even current on here. 😥

    The destruction around where I live and ride locally is just terrible. It’s not even like it’s just a ten metre wide strip going through the countryside. The devastation reaches far beyond the actual track in access and service roads and God knows what else.


    Premier Icon ctk
    Full Member

    Yep heart breaking. Just watched Planet of the Humans and am feeling quite cynical about the real reasons its being built.

    Premier Icon kayak23
    Full Member

    Another day, another despicable shit show.
    HS2 now destroying a children’s memorial garden in Wendover.
    Yay HS2!

    Hs2 for all!

    Premier Icon timbog160
    Full Member

    The business case (which was already tenuous at best) evaporated 6 months ago. The really scandalous thing is that those in charge of this monstrous waste of taxpayers money are now intent on spending as much as possible, and doing as much damage as possible, as quickly as possible, so as to make it uncancellable.

    It isn’t criminal, but it really should be.

    Premier Icon coconut
    Free Member

    The business case (which was already tenuous at best) evaporated 6 months ago.

    I disagree, the business case remains the same, Covid will pass and we will revert back to train travel again. I agree the costs are spiralling.

    Premier Icon ctk
    Full Member

    WFH is to a large degree here to stay imo.

    Premier Icon binners
    Full Member

    Isn’t the general consensus amongst experts that it will never get past Birmingham as the costs will be so astronomical by that point they’ll just scrap the northern section?

    When they did the Dispatches documentary On HS2 that opinion was pretty much unanimous

    So we’ll just end up with a £150 billion commuter line from the Midlands into London?

    Meanwhile investment in the rail infrastructure in the north over the same period will be £13.27

    Levelling up, eh?

    Premier Icon Dickyboy
    Full Member

    agree the costs are spiralling.

    They’d spiral a wee bit less if HS2 didn’t have to provide security for every metre of land they rip up – it’s going ahead now, protests and demonstrations aren’t going to change that. We are still mostly using and benefitting from victorian railway infrastructure in the UK, who knows how HS2 will be used in 150yrs time.

    Premier Icon crazy-legs
    Full Member

    It’s already uncancellable – besides you’d end up with a situation where the bulk of the destruction is done but there’s no benefit anywhere from it!

    And re the comment about levelling up the North and rail infrastructure there. Northern Powerhouse Rail is absolutely dependent on HS2 being built in full. The economic benefits (measured in the traditional Government Green Book way) for NPR are tenuous at best but a lot of that is because the Northern economy is far lower anyway.

    There’s a digressionary tack there about how Government analysis of Cost/Benefit has favoured the SE over the last 30 years; more investment makes it more profitable which generates higher BCR which drives more investment…
    Meanwhile in the North, lower investment means the area declines, that stymies any further investment so it declines more…

    So the NPR economic case rests on delivery of HS2. If the North has any hope of levelling up, it needs HS2.

    Premier Icon benjamins11
    Free Member

    Does anyone else think they will build this thing just in time for Hyperloop to be perfected and it will be blown out of the water?

    Premier Icon gobuchul
    Free Member

    Hyperloop to be perfected

    Yeah and some of these.

    Premier Icon kayak23
    Full Member

    They’d spiral a wee bit less if HS2 didn’t have to provide security for every metre of land they rip up

    Don’t fall for that newest of utter ballcocks HS2 are spouting.
    People aren’t protesting for a laugh. Much of what HS2 are doing is illegal but sanctioned. The security is to stop this being recorded/witnessed/reported.
    It doesn’t take much looking to find them ignoring laws put in place to protect habitats of species at risk. For instance, they’re not allowed to work within so many metres of badger setts. There’s video around if you can be arsed of them breaking this blatantly, and even using machinery with longer reach so that technically, they are outside that boundary.

    Many councils and contractors were also made to sign non disclosure agreements.

    The cost isn’t spiralling because of protests by a few people who GAF and recognise this project for what it is, it’s spiralling because it’s utterly ill-conceived, entirely corrupt and monumentally poorly implemented.
    Look at the recent highlighting of corrupt practises in requisition of PPE during the start of the pandemic. This isn’t any different. Seriously, protestors are not responsible for the spiralling costs. Ridiculous claim.

    I have sites all around me in Warwickshire and I’ve been up to a few of the encampments to offer support, firewood, tools etc where I can and the amount of people there compared to the hired in mob and police security presence is just insanity.

    There’s just no doubt, they do not want people to see what they are doing. Get in quick, raze everything to the ground and destroy everything before anyone can get anywhere near.

    Frankly this pandemic has been a gift for this project as it meant that they could go ahead and do whatever the F they wanted while we are all looking the other way.

    The trouble with a project like this is that an awful lot of people are not directly affected and so it’s difficult to get them to GAS.

    Here in Warwickshire, we are severely affected sadly. They really have f’ed up my nearby countryside profoundly.

    I imagine a lot of you who are in favour might think differently if you were witness to what’s happening in your own ‘back yards’.

    Ever continuous expansion and growth just isn’t sustainable. This project is a travesty, it really is.

    Premier Icon Dickyboy
    Full Member


    Maybe I should have put “a wee bit less” in bold.
    I live within 1 mile of the route nr the Chilterns, so it does and will effect me but a lot of the complaining I see coming from the local nimbys who otherwise have zero concern for the environment.

    Premier Icon esselgruntfuttock
    Free Member

    It’s the biggest money pit this country has ever witnessed, & probably ever will witness.

    Premier Icon stumpy01
    Full Member


    It’s the biggest money pit this country has ever witnessed, & probably ever will witness.

    Should this post have gone in the Brexit thread? 😉

Viewing 19 posts - 121 through 139 (of 139 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.