That old question comes up from time to time, so I thought I’d add my thoughts.

Thought #1:

I took my Kona Heihei to the Mash-up at Glyncorrwg last year. I thought “hey, it’s only a trail centre and I’m doing the Enduro so it’ll be nice and quick on the Kona”. Well, I was wrong. I got pummelled on the downhill sections, and my upper body was really tired by the end. My times on the DH AND singletrack sections were crap. I was really wishing for my 5 by the end of it. And I would in no way describe those trails as rocky. In fact, I think they’re particularly smooth.

Thought #2:

I’ve been taking my 7″ travel Patriot to Cwmcarn lately, and it’s absolutely fantastic. I mean really really brilliant. I just get faster and faster on the descents.. an old trail that I’ve ridden dozens of times a year since it opened is giving me more challenges and almost delirious amounts of grin factor – and it’s because the bike is just begging me to push harder and just go faster and faster all the time. Is it the amount of travel or the geometry? Both, I am sure, but travel’s a factor, and you don’t get 66 deg head angles on bikes with 80mm travel.

So.. of course you don’t need travel at trail centres, or anywhere, but I know which bike I’m taking next time 🙂

I just find I cant get my longer travel bike back to the top without dying and walking half of the trail, that spoils it for me. Need chairlifts!

That’s the disadvantage of course. Takes me 40 mins up that climb on the Patriot at least, compared to 30 on the 5. That’s flat out tho.

Oh and there is a lift at Cwmcarn 🙂

Having done Glentress Red on both a fully rigid and a 4″ full sus… I have to agree with you – Bigger Bounce is better ! 😉

Oooh what bike to take, what a conumdrum.

I know I always take my Pitch when I’m plannign on doing anything that’s either techy red of black and take the handjob if I’m going for a quick blast round a red that isn’t too techy like Llandegla

One thing with trail centres is that though they are smoother, there tends to be more jumps/drops etc than with natural riding – I know lots of ppl can manage these fine on hardtails or shorter travel bikes but for me they are faster/more fun with more travel.

10 mins longer up for a whole load more fun going down. seems an perfectly adequate trade off to me.

10 mins longer up for a whole load more fun going down. seems an perfectly adequate trade off to me.

I’d agree, but when I ride them with people who are faster up than me to start with, and slower down, it makes for a bit of a boring ride lol.

One thing with trail centres is that though they are smoother, there tends to be more jumps/drops etc than with natural riding – I know lots of ppl can manage these fine on hardtails or shorter travel bikes but for me they are faster/more fun with more travel.

Yeah. Stuff like the energy section on Whyte’s would be harder for me on a hardtail. Part of it too is the bigger tyres, better brakes, wider bars and general stiffness on the big bike.

I’ve never ridden a long travel hardtail tho. Maybe a 456 with 6″ coil forks, big brakes and the rest would be better still?

coffeeking – not really, they get to wait at the top and you get to wait at the bottom.

or give them a head start on the way down….

Up and ’till recently I used to ride my maxlight xc pro at trail centres with 115mm rebas. Was plenty enough fun but I was always whacked at the end, ‘specially after riding whites/wall one day, satying up getting pished and then riding skyline the next. Two laps of cwmcarn would leave me rattled as well but I always push it there to get good lap times. I now ride a Ti456 with 130mm rebas which is much better by miles, although I’m sure it’s more fun for some on a full suss, there’re just not for me.

K

From the trailcentres Ive ridden, Id say a full sus is only useful for the bumpy flat pedally bits, a hardtail feels faster/more fun on the ups and the downs.

4/5 inch travel upfront, something like that

I’ve not done the same trail centre on different bikes but I definitely had a lot more fun doing Afan (Penhydd and The Wall) on my Blur 4X than CYB on my 100mm hardtail

My heckler is always great at trail centres, handles anything you can chuck at it. The longish travel hard tail (PA) is usually faster and more fun though.

Whereas the last couple of times I’ve done Afan I’ve had the 6″ fs with me, and its just too big and heavy for the DHs (or the DHs aren’t steep enough/gnarly enough to warrant the travel depending on your view)I’m more knackered from trying to keep the speed up on the downs than I am on the climbs. I think a slackish short travel bike would probably be the best answer – a Blur 4x or an Orange ST4

Stuff like the energy section on Whyte’s would be harder for me on a hardtail

It sucks on a full sus, trust me… All the sharp little climbs would be much easier on a light bike that climbs well out the saddle, and all the DH sections are relatively smooth. Oh, and you’ll get more *pop* off the jumps on a HT too…

its not the bike, its the rider. Get fitter.

Must admit I’ve enjoyed my short travel bike at trail centres far more than the long travel bike, the long travel just swallowed everything I threw at it to the point where my tyres stopped gripping and made it a bit boring.

Oh, and you’ll get more *pop* off the jumps on a HT too…

That am true. It’s frighteningly easy to get the Heihei a long way into the air with just a little flick. But landing it smoothly is harder for me. I personally enjoyed Energy more on my FS for this reason, so no I don’t trust you that it sucks on a FS 🙂

or the DHs aren’t steep enough/gnarly enough to warrant the travel

Fair point for Afan. Cwmcarn is a different ballgame tho as it’s a lot rockier.

its not the bike, its the rider. Get fitter.

Stupid thing to say. If you can’t understand how a different bike rides differently and gives you different enjoyment, then you must be really slow. Or you’ve only ever ridden one bike.

I ride Cwmcarn a lot, afterwork once a week through summer last year and the 5 would have been fastest for me I think. I have a meta 5.5. Cwmcarn isn’t all smooth and the bits that are, well they are more fun to pump through on a FS than a HT.

Why don’t look look at what the people who won the Kona mashup were riding, so that was Rowan Sorrell and the LBS owner Rob Cooksley (he runs badassbikes)

I think both of them were on FS. Mind you they are both seriously fast, regardless of what they are riding.

I haven’t been to Cwmcarn in a while, but are you talking about the DH course when you are saying its rocky? as the XC loop never used to have that many rocks on it.

4.2″ at the back, 3.5″-5.1″ adjustable at the front.
…..precisely

IMO, they are all LOADS faster on a full suss, but less scope for hooning and “dicking about” than on an a HT. HTs can be much more clinical.
and no FS can accelerate like a HT imo, (if you think it can your not accelerating quick enough on your HT 😉
x

Which bike I’m going to have more fun on…That’s the right one

I haven’t been to Cwmcarn in a while, but are you talking about the DH course when you are saying its rocky? as the XC loop never used to have that many rocks on it.

I am talking about the XC trail, and it’s a SHEDload rockier than it used to be. It changes month by month and even week by week sometimes. Not rocky as in strewn with baby head chunks like a Beacons trail, but rough, with ragged lines that are slipping about the hillside. Great, in other words 🙂 I definitely prefer it like that than like Afan.

the 5 would have been fastest for me

Probably. It definitely takes me a good 15 mins longer on the Patriot at least, but it’s worth it for the sheer euphoria of shredding the downs at warp speed. (Sorry for the MBUK-speak but I really do love it!). I’m not sure if, given the amount of climbing, the Heihei would be faster around the whole loop. I’m beginning to think that the Heihei might’ve been better built up with a 100mm fork, but then again it might’ve raised the front too much and the RC39s get 95mm travel anyway which is probably more than a Fox 100mm job.

you’ve just said its more fun on your Patriot but slower. So get fitter and ride what makes you happy. That would mean less time on your PC talking twaddle though…………..

I enjoy my long travel HT right up to the point I’m knackered at which point all I want to do is sit down on a 5-6″ FS and float through rough stuff rather than have to stand up on cramping legs :p So for me for up to a couple of hours I’d rather go with the long travel HT, over that and I’d prefer a FS

As others have mentioned I reckon it’s more about the geometry than amount of travel. Something small and slack is most fun IMO.

personally I ride my HT with Pikes as its more fun, especially if you keep your eyes open for the optional lines which normally jump over anything moderately rough

Had a Ti HT with 125mm up front and a 575 with 6″ both ends, now sold (nearly sold) both as realised 5″ both ends is more fun for me everywhere so just bought a Maverick ML5/7, light, good climber and great on downhills. I reaslied I only need one bike for everything.

molgrips –
and you don’t get 66 deg head angles on bikes with 80mm travel.

you do if you look hard enough, I have a 100mm travel XC hardtail with a 63.5deg H/A and a 4″ travel full-sus with a 66.5 deg H/A with pikes at 100mm (65deg @ 140mm). the Hardtail is pretty good for trail centres as long as you pin everything but the full susser is too much of a DH build for that sort of riding.

For trail centres I actually prefer a quick steering 95mm travel hardtail jumpbike but that’s because I like to jump/manual/pump everything. IMO nothing at trail centres ever gets fast or rough enough to warrant DH travel or DH geometry.

Bristol-round th corner travel time from Wales or 20mins ride to Ashton court.

Travel suspension? been rigid steel or carbon, 80 and 100 and 150mm hardtail and seen loads on 5/6 inch sussers.

I still reckon over 80%, maybe higher, of bikes I see at trail centres are full sus

Since you are talking about cwmcarn. I’ve ridden there on everything from rigid to 8 inches front and back. Ti, steel ally. Night and day. Snow and Sun.

All are good.

you’ve just said its more fun on your Patriot but slower. So get fitter and ride what makes you happy. That would mean less time on your PC talking twaddle though…………..

A 21lb XC race machine is always going to be faster uphill than a 31lb beefy bike. No matter how fit you are.

I do ride what makes me happy, that’s what the original post was about. A lot of people on here deride those who choose long travel bikes at trail centres; I was saying that there are could be advantages. What point are you trying to make? Not sure where your apparent animosity is coming from.