How much speed can you buy for £1000 (used)? Planet X, CAAD, Giant TCR..

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  • How much speed can you buy for £1000 (used)? Planet X, CAAD, Giant TCR..
  • yohandsome
    Member

    Looking for a new all year/weather disc brake road bike, I want to keep it under £1000 due to budget and not having to worry about it being locked up on the street.

    Since you need deep section carbon wheels for max aero gains (ideally >=50 mm or tri spoke front, disc back wheel which should be ok even if it’s WiMdY) you/I need disc brakes in the wet.

    At first i thought a track bike could work, but they don’t do discs so think I’d compromise safety too much for city riding in the rain. There are also ways to convert road bikes to singlespeed or fixed, and a lot more used road bikes for sale.

    AFAIK the best way to go would be to find a used aero disc brake road bike for under £700 and spend the rest on a used or Chinese deep section disc wheelset (you might get £100 for the old one), e.g. a 88 mm or disc wheel rear and 50 mm front. Then throw on a pair of GP5000s. Bonus points for fen..mudguard mounts.

    No: Recumbents, tri-bars, powdered substances, electric bikes or clothing please (separate discussions).

    Options that could be found used for £700 or less

    Planet X Pro Carbon Evo Disc £899 new

    Planet X EC-130E Disc £999 new

    Vitus ZX-1 £1399 new

    Vitus Zenium £749 new (not aero)

    Cannondale CAAD10 disc (no aero but nice)

    There’s also the CAAD12 or 13 the latter has mudguard mounts too, but prob too expensive.

    Giant TCR Advanced 1 or 2 £2k new?

    Other suggestions? Weight not a major concern since it’s flat here

    ojays
    Member

    That’s my old Caad10 disc in the picture – loved that bike, should never have sold it!

    Have you ridden a tri spoke and disc? Not in any way comfortable or easy to handle, and makes your bike a lot more noticeable. I don’t think any of those bikes are especially aero if that’s what you’re after?

    If it was me, I couldn’t see past that gorgeous CAAD10. The others- nice enough, but that’s the one I would genuinely (inc going fast) want to do everything on.

    yohandsome
    Member

    @ojays beautiful! How much did you sell it for? 😉

    @Lankysprinter I’ve tried em, but not used them in strong winds. People do say 50mm front and a disc rear isn’t a problem, might help that I’m 90 kg too. Still, don’t think I’ll find a disc disc wheel that will fit my budget, so maybe a 50 mm front and 88 mm rear deep section wheel could work.

    The Planet X and Giant are aero frames, how aero, who knows, but the frame doesn’t make that much difference anyways. Open to other suggestions

    Premier Icon GHill
    Subscriber

    Are you thinking of having separate summer and winter wheels? I wouldn’t want to be on those deep section wheels in the middle of winter.

    ojays
    Member

    Not enough. £800 I think with diff wheels, I sold those 45s before hand though, it was much better with those wheels on.

    I decided to stop road riding but have since bought another carbon Focus Izalco Max Disc after a rethink. It should be a better bike really but the Caad10 did it for me, as good as the Focus is.

    kerley
    Member

    If speed if the main objective just get a TT bike, you could even get a Fixed TT bike to get back to what you were originally thinking (wouldn’t have disc but 2 rim brakes are fine in the wet. You will gain more speed from the aero position than you would from wheels.

    Premier Icon oldnpastit
    Subscriber

    I think you will get a lot more aero gains from getting a good, low, position.

    And that in turn depends on how well the bike fits you (and how much discomfort you want to put up with).

    But deep-section carbon wheels definitely look awesome. Fact!

    Premier Icon oldnpastit
    Subscriber

    Oh, also, I would be wary of a used frame with a PF30 or BB30. If/when it creaks, you’ve got no come back.

    yohandsome
    Member

    @Ghill nope, why not?

    @kerley agree a tt bike or tt position is fastest, but it isn’t very practical for city riding in rush traffic, from what I gather i need disc brakes as wet carbon isn’t safe in traffic? Even with basalt coating? Regardless disc brakes are way better in such conditions. Plus you can get (in fact I already have) clip on TT bars.

    No that this isn’t ridiculous and tempting:

    @oldnpastit position can be adjusted quite a bit, and I’m looking for practical/comfortable gains, if I wasn’t i would get a recumbent.

    I would be wary of a used frame with a PF30 or BB30.

    Thanks for the tip!

    Premier Icon oldnpastit
    Subscriber

    If you’re riding in heavy traffic, forget about aero. You want something that can deal with all the pot holes.

    yohandsome
    Member

    not sure where you live, but no pot holes here in Berlin. Also quite a few bike lanes.

    crikey
    Member

    Is this for actual competitive use or to look good at the cafe?

    yohandsome
    Member

    @crikey good question, what bike would you recommend for “actual competitive use”, and which ones do you think looks best in front of cafes? What kind of cafes are we talking here? Can looking good in front of cafes not be seen as competitive? /s

    Nah, I don’t compete nor go to cafes, Berlin is a huge city so going fast helps, plus going fast is fun, also do cardio on the bike – a few 800 m bike loops here. Seeing how much speed you can buy on a budget is a bit fun too.

    crikey
    Member

    Well… I raced for a long time, and racing is a wonderful way of disabusing yourself of the idea that you can buy speed. The fastest bikes were the ones covered in chips and scuffs from being chucked in the back of team cars and vans and driven around the UK and Europe.

    You’re not looking for real speed, are you?

    Get a red one for the cafe.

    Premier Icon GHill
    Subscriber

    I’d be very wary of winter side winds with deep wheels, but if you live somewhere where that isn’t an issue…

    yohandsome
    Member

    @Crikey, I think there might be a noticeable speed difference between my current 650b mountain bike with 40 mm wheels and fenders, and an aero road bike w aero deep section wheels + GP5000s.

    TIP: You don’t need to get a red bike, if you like red you can get red bar tape, more flexible that way. Personally I’d go with deep orange.

    @Ghill side winds are not a big issue here.

    crikey
    Member

    As long as you’ve got all the gear…. 🙂

    trail_rat
    Member

    Sueely can get a propel advance disk 2 for your money. They only 1499 new now.

    I have a propel advance 1 with the odd different depth wheels.

    I keep wanting to do a comparison with my TT bike (on an 88 and disk)…. But mostly I think that it would be faster with clip one over 10/25mi than my TT bike beyond that the ability to hold the correct position would pay dividends.

    As for locking any of these bikes up outside ….they will be gone quick smart. Even more so with fancy wheels on.

    Premier Icon grtdkad
    Subscriber

    You can get a brand spanking new CAAD12 Ultegra for £1250 (reduced from ~£2k).

    That’s what I did. No regrets it’s a great bike.

    yohandsome
    Member

    @crikey watch out on my next post on budget aero helmets 😉 Still waiting for your bike recommendation beyond color..

    @trail_rat will look for the propel used, maybe a smidge faster than the CAADs? Not that frame makes a huge difference.

    @grtdkad yeah leaning towards finding a used CAAD10 or CAAD12, especially since the frames come so highly recommended. New the 2018 CAAD12 disc is £1220 here, but I want those deep section rims..

    trail_rat
    Member

    No idea if it’s faster than a caad.

    Never seen any caads when I’m out riding. Perhaps it is faster and they are all behind me.

    Premier Icon joebristol
    Subscriber

    I’ve got a Caad12 105 Disc, it’s a nice bike definitely. It’s not aero though, nor are the standard wheels (the standard wheels aren’t meant to be very good quality or very light) – I swapped them out for some Mason X Hunt 4 seasons wheels. I use the bike for commuting and will be using it for a triathlon this year. Note they don’t have any mudguard mounts – maybe joy any issue if aero is a thing for you – but you’ll soon get bored of getting soaked riding in the rain if you don’t have any mudguards (I’ve got some sks clip on type ones that seem pretty good).

    The propel looks a lot more aero – both in tube shapes and position. But I know literally nothing about aero bikes…..

    TiRed
    Member

    Nothing says “steal me” like a set of deep section wheels when locked in the street. But if you want aero and speed, then a Giant Propel would suit. Position is the most important aspect of speed – accounting for 80% of drag. There is a long long history of fast riding in a conventional riding position. Normally this means you need a significant saddle to drop bar drop.

    For aero gains, the frame is, sadly of limited importance. I have a Propel with HED Jet 6/9 for racing, I have another Propel set up as a TT bike with proper HED TT front end. Both are fast on a power for speed basis. The TT Propel has a HED3 trispoke and a HE JET Disc. I also run a Defy SL with Giant 60 mm carbon rims. It’s not as fast as the Propel, despite identical position.

    If you must maximise aero gains, then you would not use disc brakes. For spendy you want an aero front brake at least. The industry standard is a TriRig, and I have three of them – they are £170 used (if you can find one) and will save you 7-10 watts. I use one on my Dolan. The Propel has aero brakes.

    I would avoid the BB30 CAAD10/12 – nice bikes but they creak in the end. Used TCR would be my choice.

    yohandsome
    Member

    @joebristol thanks for the input, im fine with using a clip on rear fender and shoe covers + rain pants, but yeah, mudguard mounts would be a bonus.

    @tired well, at least thelockpickinglawyer found the Abus Granit 540 X plus to have “Enough pick resistance to secure a bike on the street” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtdiO1ZiiXk

    Disc brakes are a must for me safety wise (carbon wheels + traffic + rain), that said I’ve seen disc brakes testing to be more aero than regular calipers (although very close, less than a watt difference) and TriRigs would be outside my budget for now.

    But there has to be some way to decreak a BB30 bottom bracket?

    Saved ebay searched for the propel and tcr, suspect they will be over £1000 used though – hot commodities! Maybe more realistic to get a used planet X and a deep section wheelset.

    yohandsome
    Member

    Seems like my best bet on budget is to find a 60 cm CAAD10 or Planet X aero disc used and slap some used or Chinese carbon deep section wheels on it. The CAAD10 is a nicer frame, the Planet X more aero.

    Premier Icon thisisnotaspoon
    Subscriber

    I’m looking for practical/comfortable gains, if I wasn’t i would get a recumbent.

    Arguably thats where a recumbant makes sense, panniers etc.

    Road/TT bikes are the shape they are only because the UCI dictates.

    Premier Icon thisisnotaspoon
    Subscriber

    thelockpickinglawyer found the Abus Granit 540 X plus to have “Enough pick resistance to secure a bike on the street”

    Yup, but probably defeated by a £10 bottle jack or a £50* battery powered angle grinder.

    *or £0 with five finger discount from any tradesmans van.

    quite a few bike lanes.

    Not somewhere you could really push the advantages of a few watts at 40kmh aero gains?

    Premier Icon martymac
    Subscriber

    Iirc, there was a video featuring Graeme Obree last year, and i think the gist of it was that the more aero your position on the bike is, the less power you are able to produce.
    So aero wheels, yes do those, aero frame, maybe worry a bit less about that.
    Aero bikes are really about the position they allow you to ride in.
    Any regular £1k road bike should be fine, so pick the one you like the feel of and buy that, then spend a summer caning the tits off it at every opportunity.
    Post pictures on here when you get it.

    Seen a few orbeas in the flesh, always look good.
    Ridden a fair few cannondales over the years, always good, occasionally they have budget wheels.
    Never ridden any giant road bikes, but they seem to get universally good reviews and the ones (all mtbs) I have seen in the flesh have all been good vfm.

    TiRed
    Member

    I’m looking for practical/comfortable gains, if I wasn’t i would get a recumbent.

    My recumbent trike is lower than my road bikes but miles slower! Not all bents are fast. It’s quite good fun in traffic but no filtering.

    Premier Icon feed
    Subscriber

    Planet X EC-130E Disc £999 new

    Have one, love it, feels fast to me

    arogers
    Member

    I have a TCR and it’s an absolute joy to ride. Not an aero bike though.

    When I bought mine the ex-pro owner of the shop said he and the team he coached loved the TCR as well, but had mostly swapped to the Propel because the ride quality was pretty much as good but you got the aero gainz too. On that basis, I’d recommend the Propel.

    I also agree with the above comments recommending you buy new. Giant bikes are such good value anyway and you get the peace of mind of a warranty and no worries with worn drivetrains or crash damage you can’t see…

    Premier Icon cynic-al
    Subscriber

    An aero bike for city riding? You know, with lots of stop/start?

    Really?

    Premier Icon dawson
    Subscriber

    This is a wind-up, surely?

    kerley
    Member

    This is a wind-up, surely?

    More of a time wasting exercise I would say. Last week it had to be a track bike but the most important thing was having a black rim but with a brake that worked, this week it is an aero bike, next week it will be an eBike.

    If you want to ride fast around a city then pick any road bike, get a good low position and go and ride it. How aero the frame, wheels etc,. isn’t going to add up to much, in fact probably best to concentrate on weight of wheels and rims as could be accelerating a lot of the time so may make more difference than anything else.

    yohandsome
    Member

    @martymac @feed cool sounds good!

    @thisisnotaspoon angle grinder then, plus got insurance for theft outside of the house, makes buying new a bit more tempting as it’d be easier to replace than a used bike (e.g. a CAAD10 disc).

    @cynic-al @dawson @kerley have you been to Berlin? Flat and lots of relatively high speed 4 lane roads + bike lanes. Plus speed makes cardio more fun. At 90kg I doubt a kg of weight off on the bike wouldn’t make much difference accelerating. Furthermore I live outside the city center so it’s not all inner city riding.

    I already wrote about why not track bikes: to go fast you want carbon deep section rims, according to the comments, carbon, possibly even basalt coated, would be iffy in the rain, then I went and tested two sizes of the cordoba and found its quality to be so so (nice frame though). A road frame you could convert to SS or even fixed later on, and there’s a lot more to pick from used. I apologize if I’m taking too much time deciding what I want.

    kerley
    Member

    I apologize if I’m taking too much time deciding what I want.

    You are definitely in the over thinker category 🙂

    But then as an under thinker/impulsive buyer type I would often be in a better position if wish I though about stuff a bit more.

    At 90kg I doubt a kg of weight off on the bike wouldn’t make much difference accelerating.

    It certainly would if that weight was from rims and tyres. But if you are not accelerating and stopping continually then doesn’t matter. I mistook city riding for busy with lots of traffic.

    yohandsome
    Member

    You are definitely in the over thinker category 🙂

    I’m usually more decisive, but still waiting for some money to come my way so I’ve had a lot of time to think 😉 Plus it’s a major purchase for me.

    Do about 50/50 stop and go / higher speed riding. I’d use the same tires prob GP5000s, so the rotational mass weight difference would come from the difference between a set of deep section carbon wheels at around 1800g and a 1500g set of low section wheels – would 300 grams make a significant difference accelerating?

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