I rode Helvellyn at the weekend. It was my first “big mountain” ride (inasmuch as Helvellyn qualifies) and I rode with a group of much more experienced riders, most of whom had done the route before. We rode Sticks Pass and Seldom Seen, and were probably out for between three and four hours once we’d gotten back to the car park.

I was struck by the variation in what people bought with them. We one chap with what looked like a 30L backpack stuffed to the gills, another with no pack and a water bottle/tube/tool strapped to the frame — and everything in between!

I erred on the side of over-preparedness, and based my kit broadly on what I’d take for a day hike in the hills (plus bike-specific stuff of course). I had a 12L pack containing:

* 2L water in a bladder
* some bars and sweeties
* a waterproof (Paramo, so it doubles as emergency insulation!)
* a buff
* riding glasses
* a compass
* phone/wallet/keys
* tools: 2 inner tubes, tyre levers, minimal puncture repair kit, a small pump, zip ties, some duct tape, chain quick link, brake pads, a multitool with chain breaker and good selection of allen/torx keys
* emergency/paranoia stuff: small first aid kit, space blanket, helmet-mount light

Of this I drank most of the water, ate my bars, used my multitool a couple of times, used my phone for Strava, and used my wallet for the pub. The rest was dead weight! 🙂

What would you take on such a jaunt?

I’d take the same approach as you. I come from a hillwalking background so would take normal day kit plus bike tools etc.

Having said that, I occasionally run in the hills too and then take very little (sweets, water, thin gloves, buff, wind/waterproof and space blanket).

Pretty much personal choice, though some folk do take the piss in expecting other folk to dig them out of a (hopefully metaphoric) hole.

Some people will rely on others in their group to bring stuff. Hills like Helvellyn in late autumn/early winter are not trivial places to be if something goes wrong. Even I’d make sure I had a survival bag and some extra layers in case I was a casualty, or having to hang around for a long time to assist one.

I don’t think anything in your pack was dead weight.

TWO LITRES of water when there must be beautiful mountain water running down all the streams at the moment?

I’d take the same but for a group ride on that I would only take one tube, on the basis that if you had really bad luck someone else could loan a second tube (even if it’s a 26 tube stretched into a 29er.

I’d also lose the wallet and just take a card and some notes (but my wallet is chunky)

I take roughly the same as you for a day trip out into the Surrey Hills, so I don’t think what you took is overkill.

(but my wallet is chunky)

Unfortunately not the case Eddiebaby 🙂

🙂

scotroutes +1

I too come from a similar background and outdoor instructor.

The knowledge to avoid issues and dig yourself out is as important in my view.

I’ve seen a few to many issues where if I wasn’t carrying the kit I do, things would have been a lot, lot worse.

In fact, carrying a resuscitation aid and a lot of tape literally saved a mates life on Hellvellyn. (And three doctors who are riding mates)
Carrying a hat, spare layer and silver blanket meant we’ve made it off the hill multiple times.
Spare batteries for head torch and having a proper map have also bailed myself and others out before.

I wouldn’t carry water and only one tube multi tool and chain links
But I would carry enough kit to survive being overnight

Yeah, my wallet is (sadly) very slim 🙂

TWO LITRES of water when there must be beautiful mountain water running down all the streams at the moment?

Good point, I didn’t really think of that. I reckon I probably absorbed a few hundred ml through my skin while traipsing around in the mist.

I did use the full 2L though, and I hate running out of water. One of the group had a ~500ml bottle of Evian for the full ride, so I suppose we’re all quite different in that respect.

Similar to you OP, but just one tube and I rarely take the first aid kit (though I have one and know I should).

I try to take closer to 3 litres of water if doing a big ride, such as going over Helvellyn twice.

About the same as you, minus the first aid kit.

I’d have probably had a similar set of kit to you OP. Was there time to do a bit of a kit check in the group so some stuff could have been shared?

The only other thing I’d have liked for Hellvellyn in November would be a 4 person group shelter – there’s a good chance of crash leading to someone being stuck in one place for a while up there. To free up the space you could have negotiated with someone to share tools maybe?

I’ve also started carrying a bottle on the bike rather than a bladder….less weight and more space on my back. I can chuck a extra bottle in the bag on hot days.

Same as you OP – including the first aid kit

To an extent, it also depends on where you are. I was up Cairngorm with the fatbike last week. Weather was settled, risk was low, I was never more than a short ride away from the base station, there was two of us and I know there is a good phone signal so I was happy to go light. I’ve been places much lower but much more remote that require a fuller kit list.

Helvellyn? very little, it’s not as if you can get lost, really, and the route you mention is short. Extra shell jacket and trews in case I come a cropper and have to sit it out through some inclement weather.

At this time of year I don’t generally bother with water either, my thirst drops right off in cold weather, as I’m generally well hydrated anyway.

Bumbag would do it.

Something like the 4 passes, then aye, a decent pack with a bit more in there.

same as you. most folk can lose a stone in body fat. don’t stress about carrying a couple of pounds of gear in you rucksack.

I’d have probably had a similar set of kit to you OP. Was there time to do a bit of a kit check in the group so some stuff could have been shared?

There was a bit of de-facto sharing, but yes — some pre-ride arrangements would have been a reasonable idea, good suggestion.

The first aid kit always feels like a bit of an overkill but does get a surprising amount of use. Thankfully just for relatively trivial things to date (plasters, painkillers, etc) but it earns its keep for its size/weight.

Helvellyn? very little, it’s not as if you can get lost, really. Extra shell jacket and trews in case I come a cropper and have to sit it out through some inclement weather.

At this time of year I don’t generally bother with water either, my thirst drops right off in cold weather, as I’m generally well hydrated anyway.

If I could ditch the water and had lightweight shell layers I’d be laughing 🙂 but I hate running out of water.

Really my Paramo shell isn’t ideal for riding — I think they’re great for hiking where I’d wear it all day, but if you’ve got to carry them they’re heavy and bulky for what they are. Sadly waterproofs are quite expensive, and the list of bike-related things to buy is long!

I’d say these days the most significant issues you’re actually likely to encounter on any ride over a couple of hours long are either a tyre failure or a lack of consumable calories/water, maybe a drivetrain problem? modern bikes (any bike under a decade old) are pretty robust now IME.

I prefer to keep a multitool/tube/tyre plugs etc tied to the bike along with some means of tyre inflation (normally a pump), it just makes it harder to forget them, and these can be quite compact now.

Water wise again stick it on the bike, I prefer to use a bottle if I can simply because I feel more comfortable riding without a sweaty pack but not every bike can accomodate two full sized bottles and there might not be any other option than to sling a bladder in a pack (bumbag better than a full pack?) if your route lacks anywhere to fill up.
Food just goes in a pocket.

The only other thing is clothing, I tend to layer up thin and I’m OK to set off feeling a little colder, knowing that as I run a bit hot I will probably be opening zips and pulling a few smaller things off after a couple of miles, noramlly pockets are enough to stash anything that does have to come off, and carry a small pack ‘a’ mac if significant rain is forcast.

I have been riding with people who absolutely had to set off wearing their waterproof, insulated winter jacket in mid-September and were stopping to stuff it in a bag to then lug about for the next couple of hours.

I think the biggest problem for those that “Over-prepare” have is that they never seem to have checked on weather forecasts, the planned route or gone over their bike before coming out and so are really covering contingencies they’ve got no proper handle on the likelihood of…

It’s simple.

If you’re going far enough away from help, dress for the mountain, not the bike, and that applies to footwear too.

I work on the principle of being able to survive an overnight in bad weather.

It may seem pessimistic but I’ve been stuck overnight in a blizzard in a high place before, and that was early autumn. Food is important too – eg a couple of bars of chocolate.

I’d probably take similar to you.

– Lights might include emergency rear light too, or a micro red eye on the back of the joystick/diablo.
– Spare warm layer as well as waterproof rather than a paramo, but that’s just preference
– probably switch the space blanket for a bothy bag.
– often take a sit mat, it’s just nice having a warm bum when you sit on a rock

What’s the purpose of the compass? Do you have a map to go with it? Generally I’d have a map on my GPS and then often a paper map or a map on my phone

High ground or remote ground = full kit, with spares of some things spread across the group. Group shelter is a must, as is a decent first aid kit and several foil blankets.
I guide and also medic in remote environments. Even when out with just one buddy, will carry everything, all year round. You never know what will happen to you, your buddy, your group or for that matter, some random stranger who you encounter in trouble on the hill.
I get the thing about travelling light being more fun, especially for runners but your margin between ‘fine’ and ‘dead’ may be as narrow as a twisted ankle or a broken compass/GPS.
Finally, consider getting on a decent outdoor first aid course. Someone’s life might depend on it one day.

Thankfully just for relatively trivial things to date (plasters, painkillers, etc) but it earns its keep for its size/weight.

See, I know this will open the old debate, but my view is that if it’s that trivial, you don’t need a small first-aid kit and a dose of M/WTFU is sufficient, and if it’s something more serious a small first aid kit wouldn’t be of any use anyway.

similar to you chap.

I find it rude that people would turn up for what i would class as a significant ride without spares/tools/water and especially a tube. it means they dont care about inconveniencing you or others. Not the sort of person that i want to be with on that type of ride.

I think there’s 2 aspects to this:

Food/water/comfort – basically, you could complete pretty much any ride this time of year with no food or water, and feeling a bit cold all the way round if necessary. 500ml vs 2l is as much about being happy to be a bit thirsty when you come back from a ride of that length, it’s not going to kill you. Similarly, I prefer not to be hungry, and it can make your concentration go on the way down stuff, but you’re not going to die of hunger on a day ride. If you pack one less layer or no warm gloves, you might be a bit chilly but body heat will keep you from hypothermia if you keep moving reasonably well.

Tools it really comes down to how badly do you want to avoid walking home. Helvellyn isn’t going to take that much longer to walk out of than to ride out of, but it will kind of defeat the point of lugging your bike up there. Other places you could face a very long walk out, so I tend to go quite spares heavy (bearing in mind the total weight of the spares is <2l of water by far). Modern bikes can and do break, even when maintained well. Brake pads can wear to the metal in 1 day’s shitty riding.

If things go bad though – the weather might be worse than expected, it only takes one person to get injured and then potentially the whole group are at risk from hypothermia and any changes in the weather, as well as night closing in. That’s why I always try to have a spare layer or two, (not going to be ideal but should keep me alive), and certainly always have a waterproof jacket. First aid kit I don’t really bother with, anything serious you can bodge with clothing etc. to keep them going. Some people I ride with will take an emergency shelter, which would be welcome if you had an incident, probably more worthwhile on more remote routes, but probably something to share out among the group with tools etc. as above.

So I take a backpack, usually use the bottle cage, with another bottle in the backpack this time of year, plenty of tools, and a large amount of baked goods, which can always be eaten on the way home/once home.

What’s the purpose of the compass? Do you have a map to go with it? Generally I’d have a map on my GPS and then often a paper map or a map on my phone

Backup for phones, etc, really. We had a paper map in the group, although I didn’t have the appropriate OL to hand.

You never know what will happen to you, your buddy, your group or for that matter, some random stranger who you encounter in trouble on the hill.

Aye, I hear what you’re saying. I’ve come across people immobilised before, or just plain lost/unprepared. Things can go wrong quite quickly.

Finally, consider getting on a decent outdoor first aid course. Someone’s life might depend on it one day.

Good idea. I do have some first-aid training, although not outdoor specific.

philjunior

…you might be a bit chilly but body heat will keep you from hypothermia if you keep moving reasonably well.

And that’s why I carry food. No amount of insulation will help if your body isn’t producing sufficient heat. Help it do so by having some hi-energy fuel.

I find it rude that people would turn up for what i would class as a significant ride without spares/tools/water and especially a tube. it means they dont care about inconveniencing you or others. Not the sort of person that i want to be with on that type of ride.

Not quite as simple as that, I take very little with me, but my bike is very well maintained, tubeless with tyres that’ll take a whack. If I can’t fix whatever happens to my bike, I’d never dream of expecting a ride buddy to be incovenienced, I’ll get myself off the hill, thanks.

I know folk that’s bikes are unmaintained piles of shit, and have every tool and spare known to man in their bag, you can ride with them if you want, but when it invariably goes tits up, you’ll be a while…. 🙂

Not too different to what the OP carries but the time of year, weather and remoteness will have some bearing on what I take.

This is pretty much my base toolkit and spares

The glove and all the bits to the right of it go in the tin at top right. Top left is a Sahmurai tyre plug that goes in the handlebar ends. Pump mounts on bike. The tin and everything else goes into a jerry can style top tube bag (sits between top tube and seat post) or for my full suss into the frame bag. This lot weighs around 500g.

A small first aid kit, mobile phone and cash and card also fit into that bag.

Water bottle on the bike – if I know the area is going to be short of water I’ll take a small Camelbak, if the water’s known to be dodgy I’ll take a water filter.

Food depends on the length of the ride: for half day rides it’ll just be snack bars and nuts in my jersey pockets. Full day rides will have something in a Camelbak or in the frame bag if I’m using the FS.

Clothing is the big variable, at this time of year I’ll almost certainly have a Camelbak just because of the bulk of cool weather stuff. Summertime it might just be a lightweight waterproof in my middle jersey pocket.

Get into more remote terrain and I’d add a bit more in the way of spares, maybe a second inner tube, gear cable, small bottle of sealant.

I’m sure I’ve missed stuff 😊

I forgot about the possibility of having to administer an emergency rectal examination on the trailside.

Will pop a glove in my backpack now.

Should mention I do take a bit of bog roll in a plastic sandwich bag too.

@Nobeerinthefridge – +1 to maintenance. On a well maintained bike the most likely mechanicals are punctures of some sort.

@chakaping – if you run tubeless and need to put in an inner tube you can use bog roll to find any thorns on the inside of a tyre.

One of the group had a ~500ml bottle of Evian for the full ride,

Somebody actually BOUGHT water for a trip to the Lakes? That’s unbelievable – Bottled water at about £1.00 a litre and one plastic bottle, vs. tap water at about £0.016 a litre or stream water for free! I bet he also films in portrait and drives up to the shops.

if you run tubeless and need to put in an inner tube you can use bog roll to find any thorns on the inside of a tyre.

Good tip, but that’s not what I tend to use it for.

😉

I had to bail out of my plan of tackling “Road To Hell” road climb out of Denbigh (6.9 miles, ~1450 elevation gain) https://www.strava.com/segments/6671093 just over two weeks ago. There was an almost perfect northerly wind to get me from Prestatyn and up the climb, but it was quite chilly, approx 7C “feels like” 2C IIRC at lower altitude but sub zero up by Alwen Reservoir.

My first mistake was wearing far too much for a hilly ride, too many layers on my legs (MTB trousers over winter bib tights) and on top (baselayer, windstopper jacket, non-cycling gillet, skull cap, winter gloves). The steep ramps meant I was often having to probably put out approx 300W+ on the Wazoo, as I was stuck in 17T sprocket and just a choice of 24/38T chainrings.

Then there was what I was carrying for such a hilly ride, I had a pump and repair kit, but only one 750ml bottle and not enough food (one round of honey sandwiches cut into quarters, or was it two? Can’t remember now!).

Then I set off far later than I should have, it was nearly 1230 and I reckoned the loop would take ~4 hours at best, really should have been ready to go at 1030 at latest.

But what really messed me up was not being as prepared as I should have been as regards navigation to get from Prestatyn to Denbigh, there’s a few options and some have much less elevation gain than others… I simply went with the Lezyne Ally v2 app suggestion with auto-rerouting turned on, but the Three mobile signal is awful around Prestatyn and this sent me on a crazy meander up some nasty inclines and some back-tracking due to sporadic signal loss.

So by the time I reached Rhuallt, I was melting in the excessive clothing; my legs were already feeling like they had done some work; I was quickly going through my water due to the efforts up the inclines and I knew there was no way that little bit of food was going to be enough; not to mention I was already behind schedule due to the navigation blunders.

I decided to head up the decent climb to Glan Llyn and head for home, just over 1500 feet of climbing in under 13 miles… One to try again with better prep on the road bike in 2020!

I think that’s good kit for somewhere like Helveyen which isn’t really either remote and gets plenty of traffic. I think you seem to have realised that your Paramo isn’t the best thing, I’d use something more packable and lightweight I’ve a v small dry bag that sits at the bottom of my pack that contains charcoal hand warmers,and thermy hat, dry gloves, an emergency tenner, and a bar more to get myself warm if I need to hang about.  I tend not to catty anything more than plasters and paracetamol as a FAK. I don’t need 2 lts unless it’s 30degs plus, so maybe half that at a push.

But what really messed me up was not being as prepared as I should have been as regards navigation to get from Prestatyn to Denbigh, there’s a few options and some have much less elevation gain than others… I simply went with the Lezyne Ally v2 app suggestion with auto-rerouting turned on, but the Three mobile signal is awful around Prestatyn and this sent me on a crazy meander up some nasty inclines and some back-tracking due to sporadic signal loss.

A paper map would have shown you the route at a glance and no need to worry about signal droputs of battery life.

Id probably take pretty much all the OP had, but only one tube, and no wallet.
It’s all very well being self reliant, but accidents can happen to anyone.
Even an experienced rider/hillwalker could have an off, or (as mentioned above) a twisted ankle.
As an example: I’ve spent more than 40 years hanging around ice rinks, ice skating, playing ice hockey, curling, ive been to canada 3 times in midwinter, skated on the largest ice rink in the world.
IF, if you were gonna make a list of people likely to be injured on ice, I should have been well down that list (you would think eh)
But, in 2017 I slipped on ice at work and broke my ankle, i was off work for more than 5 months.
Hope for the best, Plan for the worst.