Just a thought really, following a beautiful walk over the hill from Gomshall to the ToB climb at crooknorth, and an equally lovely 35 miler exploring some stuff i hadnt ridden in years

I spoke with a former trailquest organiser recently who now mostly runs sportives, who said the sport has progressed to a “service sector” phase, with people expecting support and guidance more than in previous days

It kind of makes me sad. My walk on FPs over the hill yesterday seemed such an obvious thing to do, but we never saw another soul going that way (by far the most direct and prettiest way to get there). I heard someone say the countryside is a “closed book” to people who can’t read an OS map, yet the venerable old outdoor shop near me in Reading has stopped selling them altogether. Is it such a huge shift?

I think if there is a can’t read a map shift it will take a long while to filter

A retailer dropping maps is more likely to be due to online competition

I think the supported event effect is not the same as the can’t read a map effect either. i think thats more the cash rich time poor brigade

The irony is that its easier than ever to navigate. Yesterday I did a walk with a map printed with the route on it, with the back up of a phone that can show my position on an OS map.

I’m quite happy with an OS map and compass but I think I’m actually getting better with the feedback from my phone

I rarely use paper maps for most of my riding these days but I still love doing adventure races where GPS assistance is banned

Yep, love a map and compass! Can’t beat it!
The satisfaction of knowing where you are, where you’re going and if it’s a steeple or a spire, deciduous or evergreen etc. Awesome.

1.2 billion

I love maps and find the level of detail fascinating. Even when I’m using my satnav in the car I’ll keep a map handy. I’ve found that even when using electrickery to find your way having a map to place the directions in context of where you are can be invaluable.

I heard someone say the countryside is a “closed book” to people who can’t read an OS map, yet the venerable old outdoor shop near me in Reading has stopped selling them altogether. Is it such a huge shift?

I think this is far from the truth.

I think what people lack is an upbringing that exposes them to the joys of being out & about, getting lost, asking directions & finding your way again. Folk are wrapped in cotton wool; Ease of media & news access has led folk to believe there is a paedophile behind every anorak; people don’t let their children bugger off for the day (we didn’t give our parents the option, we just did it).

People are just not adventurous anymore. My wife & her brothers barely know the woodland that is a mile away. When asked why, they replied they just didn’t feel the need to investigate or have an adventure there. The exception is her youngest brother who does go there, but was considered a tearaway in his youth.

I actually despair at the lack of adventurous spirit of today’s youth. It’s just easier to get on te mobile and sit outside the shops. Actually I’ll shut up now as I feel a rant building.

One last thing; I think people have the basic idea how to read maps; Gps has enabled people to follow a route on their smartphones; people are no more stupid, they just cant be arsed.

CaptainFlashheart – Member
Yep, love a map and compass! Can’t beat it!
The satisfaction of knowing where you are, where you’re going and if it’s a steeple or a spire, deciduous or evergreen etc. Awesome.

+1

Although I don’t think it’s changed that much, remember doing orienteering at school 15 odd years ago and the only people who could read maps were me and my friends who were in Scouts together – but even that depended on which troop you were with.

How many people could actually read a map before the introduction of GPS?
I suspect that a lot of the people who used maps to plan and navigate in the past are still doing so, in conjunction with GPS, and people who just rely on GPS and pre defined routes probably weren’t big map users to begin with. So overall, there are probably more people “exploring” the outdoors these days, thanks to GPS.

Yeah, I learned in scouts too. Schools should teach it, early ish in secondary age groups, I think

I love maps and can happily sit at home “reading” an OS map the way some folk read a book. I like to look for strange features and picture what the terrain looks like. There’s no doubt that GPS technology is having an impact but being able to find out where you are is often simplest bit of getting safely off the hills

druidh – Member
I love maps and can happily sit at home “reading” an OS map the way some folk read a book. I like to look for strange features and picture what the terrain looks like

*High fives fellow map geek!*

🙂

I can read a map, have navigated myself of fells in thick clag after getting lost. But I still love sportive and signposted races too, as its nice to ride / run hard, enjoy the scenery and not have to worry about navigation.

That’s makes three of us.

I was amazed in a 2 day mountain race a few years ago that so many relied in GPS devices and couldn’t read maps. No surpriseds which group got lost more often!!

I love maps. Im also a mountain leader. Very satisfying reaching your destination after xx miles without going wrong once. Helps a lot with cycling too. I seem to have a built in compass. Makes me very confused when people haven’t the slightest idea were things are..

Maps are ace,real, you can see large areas,get the ‘feel’ for an area all off apiece of paper.

Mind you i’ve still got all my tunes on vinyl, they sound better played out on a system.

I love sitting and looking at maps, too

I plan my rides on maps but then programme them and upload to GPS and do the ride with a Satmap with OS mapping.

For walking a map is fine but when riding it’s more fun not to have to keep stopping to check maps all the time. If I’m somewhere I’ve not been before I’ll carry an OS map of the area still just in case.

How can any one not be able to read a map?

It’s just a picture of the ground from above.

Yeah, many of us do that I know, but you do of course need to understand the map in the first place. I love GPS as it helps me get more out of maps and the terrain they represent. I rose with Viewranger on my phone, in a pouch on my wrist. I love it, one of the best gadget things ever to happen for my riding. Still need to know how the map works to get the best of it

I look at maps more than I read books. In fact, within arms reach of where I’m sitting, there are maps of the Yorkshire Dales, Lake District & Peak District.
I still enjoy the satisfaction of navigating in poor conditions.

I can read and navigate with a map easy enough but i prefer to navigate off road with my GPS after inputting all the relevant data and route, escape points, etc. I might print off a wee scaled down map version if i’m going somewhere new and strange to myself but I like nothing better than spreading a map out in front of the fire and wondering if thats rideable?…or perhaps that?…..,possibly that contour over there…….nope, not that one….look at the scree…. looks too dodgy etc…etc…

Another self-confessed map geek here 🙂

Anyone else love getting a new map, opening it out over the floor, and spending the evening tracing new routes, options, and adventures? And I really enjoyed the micro-navigation part of my ML training – being able to use a map to “read” the landscape in such detail in order to find an anonymous boulder in supposedly featureless ground is great … (or maybe it’s just me that gets a buzz out of that 😳 )

I’ve always used OS maps, and they’re still my prefered form of navigation aid. I can see the advantages of GPS, especially for biking, but I will always love maps.

I showed a non-mappite the ‘wheresthepath’ site. He was amazed at what a map told you when related to ‘the real world’ (or the aerial view as it was). I love maps, always have. I prefer a map to GPS. I like using an atlas with a sat nav as it gives you a context unavailable on that tiny screen.

Maps are great. My favourite toilet reading.

glenh : You’d be surprised and it’s not that rare, not everyone has been brought up in the outdoors or has the experience to navigate from a map – i know loads of folk who if you placed a map n’ compass in front of them and asked them to align the map with north they’d just stare at me in confusion whilst reaching for their GPS – imho learning to navigate and tell the approx time using the sun’s position relative to the months of the year may be of more benefit to mtb’rs, same goes for using the shadow n’ stick or your watch method.

Then we can get into the Pole star or Orions belt but how many folk go out at night and need to navigate away from their usual trails..

All very useful stuff to learn and may save your life or someone else oneday.

Maps, particularly OS maps, are ace

Yes, can read and navigate from them here too

OS 50 are my main route finding tool, buy, highlight all Byways/Bridleways etc, scope suitable loooking loops, find parking/pubs and fill in with coughpaths, I also use MM and have a satmap but always have a map and compass as well.

Part of any holiday – new maps and dreams of great routes

ive got an OS map open right now, planning fridays ride 8)

work out a nice loop on the map, then use google earth at the junctions (street view if poss) so i know where to turn.

then on the ride i normally only look at the map at lunch time, (or if lost :oops:)

i do just love looking at maps tho, sad i know 😉

Yep, love a map and compass! Can’t beat it!

Couldn’t agree more. My 2 sons think I am a dinosaur for relying on maps, particularly when hiking in our mountain wilderness areas, but the maps haven’t ever failed me yet and their battery doesn’t go dead at a critical moment.

I trained as a navigator in the R.A.F. where we were taught navigation from the basics, the idea was to use the best (combination of most accurate and easiest to use) kit available but always be able to fall back on first principles as/when/if the kit failed. In training they progressively turned off the ‘good’ kit to make us less reliant on it.

I was able to put this to good use when sailing the North Sea and our Decca (pre-cursor to GPS for you youngsters :-)) failed and took a ‘running fix’. When the Decca came back online we were within 1/2 a mile of where the Decca put us which, given that I was using a hand bearing compass from a yacht and Decca in that area was accurate to +/- 1/4 mile wasn’t too bad.

Nowadays I use GPS so I can enjoy where I am without having to concentrate on the navigation but carry a map and compass as a fallback.

Should have asked us all for our ages

I’m 47

Maps are great and yes I can read them pretty well. Always surprises me but many folk really struggle with navigation and are scared to go out in the hills on their own.

MM on my phone gets used a lot more than paper maps these days though. Know someone who runs navigation training for a living and they use MM a lot too.

I’m 32 btw.

The difference though is that you/they are using MM but know what the features on a map mean. Difficulties arise when there is a disconnect between the landscape and how that is represented in “print”.

Me. Almost 35 and learned doing DofE on the North York Moors.

Hate using maps on GPS as the screen doesn’t show enough of the map.

I’d say the general public has better access to maps, albeit electronically presented, than ever in history. Without paying a penny you can see an OS map of every morsel of the British Isles. 10 years ago that sort of access would either cost you a fortune or see you as a frequent flyer in your local library.

I could stare at a map for hours me.

Most folk can’t ‘read’ a map, and never could.

38.. fairly competent map reader, can navigate fairly accurately with a compass if necessary.. would probably be a bit more confident at it but I was very much an ASBO kid rather than DofE..

Don’t see how you can plan on a screen? Either it’s too zoomed to see enough of the route or it’s to zoomed out to see detail. Tend to use the map and compass and leave the gps in the bag just in case I’m properly stumped then I tend to just use it for a grid reference.
Have recently (last 5 years) gotten into sheet maps for driving route planning to as opposed to road atlas as you can see where you want to go and anywhere you may want to go via rather than flipping from page to page in the road atlas.

35 & 3/4

Hate using maps on GPS as the screen doesn’t show enough of the map.

For me as well
I use my GPS for certain situations/locations, but rely on maps for others—also know I can take a fall, land on my map and it still works just fine. I’m 69