Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 49 total)
  • How long/far would a reasonable length cycle commute be for a non cyclist?
  • convert
    Full Member

    Putting a proposal to a committee at work tomorrow regarding encouraging cycling to work.

    There are plenty of lycra clad heros here that would think nothing of cycling 100 miles each way (I exaggerate for effect). They are not really who I’m thinking of just now. I’m thinking about your average Joe/Jo who does not cycle for fun but might be encouraged to ride in instead of using the car with minimal adjustments to their work wear.

    Terrain – ‘lumpy’ south downs just outside a small market town. The village is called ‘Steep’ which gives a clue of the terrain. But that’s soft southern steep not hard and nails northern steep.

    I have the postcodes of all staff home addresses and am manipulating the data.

    What would you say is a reasonable distance to ride in – trying to work out the size of the target group (i.e. how much I can push for improved facilities). Currently working on a 4 miles ride max so a 3 miles radius to take into account a wiggly route.

    About right or too sceptical/lacking in ambition?

    IHN
    Full Member

    I think that’s reasonable.

    nickjb
    Free Member

    I was thinking 3 – 4 miles before I read your response so I agree with your figures. Could be a little higher if it was flat or had good infrastructure, a little lower for hilly and busy roads. Also need to bear in mind most non cyclists look at you like you are crazy if you tell them you still ride when it is raining

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    keppoch
    Full Member

    I think it will be more about the conditions for cycling as the primary factor rather than distance/time. Road/traffic/safety concerns are normally a key factor why people do or do not cycle. Distance and time comes after that.

    Also do you have any control on parking at your place of work? We only have about 30 spaces for >350 employees so a lot of people cycle.

    Having said all that I think your distance assumption is not a bad one.

    DezB
    Free Member

    Steep’s right on the south downs isn’t it – a few people will have a nice hill or 2.
    For a short period I had a 5 mile, flat ride to work and it was like no ride at all, so 3-4 hilly miles for a non-cyclist is about right.

    thepurist
    Full Member

    Probably about right IMO – I worked at a place where someone was training for a 9 mile ride, from not having ridden a bike since her schooldays. How long would it take a non cyclist to ride those 3 or 4 miles?

    Does your pitch include some sort of training as well to help those who are concerned about riding in traffic etc?  For some folk the thought of a mile on a road with cars passing would be enough to put them off.

    dissonance
    Full Member

    Do you have showers and facilities for storing shoes etc? Will they have to take their laptops with them?
    If so would probably go to 5m max ride.

    qwerty
    Free Member

    3 – 4 miles sounds ideal pre / post work therapy commute distance. But, hills will kill it for non cyclists, as will busy urban roads & infrastructure. A nice 3 mile pootle along the canal is one thing, 1000′ of ascent / high density traffic is another.

    Have you seen the Iron Man flying suit thread?

    n0b0dy0ftheg0at
    Free Member

    3-4 miles sounds reasonable.

    Bonus points for setting a PB up https://www.strava.com/segments/7723919 before work? 😉 😈

    njee20
    Free Member

    I was going to say 5 miles, so yes, sounds reasonable. Not particularly nice roads around there for non-cyclists though, IMO. I think that would be a much easier case to make in a busy urban environment, not a rural one where there’s not really that much traffic, probably plentiful parking etc.

    scud
    Free Member

    For many inexperienced commuters i do not think it is the distance as such, more how much contact they have with traffic. A lot surveyed at our work, didn’t care if it was 1 mile, or 5 miles, they were simply scared of riding a bike in traffic.

    kcal
    Full Member

    5 miles tops, 3 miles more likely. Even 2 would be great.
    Think of walking – that’d be 40 mins – 2 miles is doable. Much more than that is quite a big hike. Small steps.

    whitestone
    Free Member

    +1 to the OP for this. It’s general, everyday cycling that needs to be supported and encouraged, only then will it be seen as “normal”.

    I’d say five miles actual cycling distance tops dependent upon terrain. I’d also try and work out cycle friendly routes for everyone – they will look at how they “drive” to work and think: “sod that” but if there’s a less daunting route then things become more attractive. Basically the fewer obstacles you leave in the way the more likely it is that there’ll be uptake. If you’ve a canteen at work then something like a free bacon butty or cake and coffee once a week might act as a bit more of incentive. Looking at streetmap.co.uk there’s NCN22 between the town and just outside the village which would keep people away from the main traffic routes. Without knowing how busy the various roads are in the area it’s hard to say.

    convert
    Full Member

    Glad my ‘instinct’ is about right.

    The route to work is actually the main thrust of my pitch. The local town (that the village we are in is a satellite to) has a lot of employees living in it. The two road routes there are not great however – one is a medium steep hill (a hike a bike for many non cyclists) with a lot of traffic the other is a quiet single track lane with occasional chelsea tractors ready to take you out but properly steep. There is however a very pleasant footpath that makes its way to the village with a spookily gentle gradient and is a lovely ride which is ripe for being a cycle path. We own half of the land and a farmer the rest. My proposal is to approach the farmer and apply for a change of use and make it mixed use cycle footpath with my employer doing all the work needed for the whole route. Benefit for the employees of where I work plus also the residents of the village. We also have a parking shortage so it’s win win.

    That and better cycle storage and access to showers to the long distance lycra type.

    toby1
    Full Member

    Perfect username really OP 😉

    3-4 is good, currently doing 8 each way which (along with a change in eating) has helped me drop about 2.5 stone this year, so that’s another benefit those that aren’t as keen on cycling can think about.

    ferrals
    Free Member

    @convert, are you talking about the path from Tilmore road up and over the A3 on the footbridge?

    I cycled that all the time as a kid. Sure most do, so think you could easily get evidence it has been used as a cyclepath for years.

    I dont think Bell Hill is viable for occaisional cyclists too many fast drivers.

    singletrackmind
    Full Member

    Disclosure. I used to commute up the hill th High Cross so know exactly where you mean.
    OK, so I rode up from Hayling Island which was 24 miles each way. After 22 miles that hill was fine its the beginning pitch out ot Petersfield that is harder. Its narrow and a bit twisty rather than higher up where its big ring territory and more flowing
    Despite this I think its a time issue. Not completely a distance thing. For most 15 mins is enough, or rather 15 mins more than driving.
    The road from the A32 is a raceway so most would feel at risk there. The lane up to Owens is great though. But you are in the mix on the 272 to get to it.

    Long winded and probably not helpful, but 6 miles tops for adults under 40 should be easy achieved

    konagirl
    Free Member

    The route to work is actually the main thrust of my pitch.

    Good. I agree with the others up-thread, the main concerns for non-cyclists is how safe the route is / feels. Steepness is a concern if it’s on a road and they don’t feel safe getting off and pushing. Whereas if you can get a completely off-road route, more people will give it a go. Having said that, you have to expect people won’t ride if they think it might rain until they get used to riding and feel they save money by riding, and so are willing to spend a bit on waterproof riding gear.

    My 5 mile commute each way into Bristol is about my limit for every day. It does wear you down doing it all the time and I wouldn’t expect the vast majority of people to want that type of commute. And if people are choosing to drive rather than walk that tells you a lot about their attitude to the car, convenience and weather! I too would suggest you look at people living within 2 mile radius (~3 miles on the NCN22) and those who do or could commute by train.

    Edited to add ‘minimal adjustments to their work wear’ means less distance and the right weather. I can’t ride more than ~1 mile in jeans. Whilst I suspect your employer might be more strict with workwear than mine! I typically wouldn’t expect people in their work clothes to go more than a few miles.

    convert
    Full Member

    @convert, are you talking about the path from Tilmore road up and over the A3 on the footbridge?

    I cycled that all the time as a kid. Sure most do, so think you could easily get evidence it has been used as a cyclepath for years.

    I dont think Bell Hill is viable for occaisional cyclists too many fast drivers.

    I am indeed!

    It is used currently by a few staff and my wife uses it every day in the opposite direction to ride to where she works. If you are not an arse the local dog walkers don’t have an issue with it it seems. But there is a no cycling sign at the bottom so currently it would be hard to promote as a legit thing to do.

    But agreed Bell hill is not bike friendly and other route along Church Road past the Harrow is not great either as narrow and blooming steep for the last bit. Bad enough to put most off riding it.

    n0b0dy0ftheg0at
    Free Member

    At the right time of day, all around there is lovely to cycle, from south west clockwise through to north west of Steep. Only ever ridden though Petersfield centre once to date, on a Sunday lunchtime, so no idea what that is like.

    But the A3/A272 roundabout can be absolutely manic, I now won’t use it ~1500-1800 Mon-Fri, approaching from Ramsdean… I’ll head up the gentle rolling Ridge Common Lane climb instead to get up to around Hawkley instead.

    thisisnotaspoon
    Free Member

    I’d agree with the consensus for 4 miles or so. But if a hill is steel enough that people couldn’t reasonably ride it I doubt you would convince them to push it on a commute, people would view that as too slow.

    What might be usefull if you’re presenting to non cyclists is comparisons of journey times. Pick a few villages on the edge of the 3-4 mile radius and show Google maps journey times for a car and a bike, and if there’s rush hour traffic show some actual car times too. My commute is a 52mile round trip, but only takes an hour to 90 minutes longer than the m4 alternative, so even at that extreme it’s more time efficient than a gym membership!

    charliew
    Full Member

    Ebike’s with the cycle to work scheme to soften to cost. If it’s steep enough that people consider pushing then it’s unlikely to get a non cyclist attempting it, but I suspect an Ebike would convince them.

    convert
    Full Member

    ebikes was my thinking too – we have only recently (as in within the last 3 weeks) joined the cycle to work scheme. Not investigated yet but there seems to have been a change and the £1 limit with drawn which brings commuter ebikes within range.

    whitestone
    Free Member

    I think you mean the £1k limit! That was down to HMRC and the Consumer Credit Act, basically the employer would need FSA approval for loans above £1k. I think it’s now up to £3K depending on the business.

    Vader
    Free Member

    Excellent work OP, hope it works out.

    From my own experience I would say the general view is about right – 5 miles max, 3 miles no bother. But a lot to do with the route, traffic etc as mentioned.

    However, I think a point worth making is something I learned when teaching bike mechanics at Velocity in Inverness. When it first started we ran beginners bike maintenance classes and I was initially surprised at the lack of very basic knowledge on bike repair – The first time I ran a puncture repair class I quickly realised many people did not actually know how to remove a wheel to start with, and in some cases did not understand how the quick release lever/skewer worked. That sorted, we then went on to the process of removing the tire, fixing or replacing the tube etc. This was a major barrier to going any distance on the bike as the thought of a puncture had them scuppered – In some instances it was groundbreaking, as up til then they had relied on their partner to pick them up if they got a flat, and then needed a shop to fix it. So I’d say maybe try and organise very basic bike maintenance classes – we used to do a bike doctor type thing visiting employers after work to teach stuff that would keep bikes running and crucially give people confidence that they could fix simple stuff that could otherwise take them off the road

    TiRed
    Full Member

    5 km/3 mi. At a steady 10 mph that’s 20 minutes without serious effort and no need to change clothing. Assuming it’s flat. If it’s hilly then none.

    MoreCashThanDash
    Full Member

    I’d like to think that if I lived within 5 miles or 30 minutes of work, I could pootle in wearing normal clothes on a sensible town bike. Make that 4 miles for genuine non-cyclists.

    I’d try and sell it on time as much as distance. How long does their current commute take? If I tell people I ride 12 miles to work, they think I’m insane and/or Chris Hoy. If I say it takes 10 minutes longer than driving at that time of the morning, it sounds like a viable option. I don’t commute in rush hour, but my average commute speed by bike at 7am is the same as it would be by car at 8am.

    Bear in mind that a lot of people may need to pick up or drop off kids on their journey to or from work. Cycling may not be an easy option.

    MoreCashThanDash
    Full Member

    Also agree re route comments, training, bikeability, basic maintenance training, facilities at work including a track pump!

    I’d really like to say that a) I think I’d like to work for your company if they are even considering this, and b) if you want to run for prime minister you have my vote

    MrPottatoHead
    Full Member

    Genuinely interested in how you might try and incentivise people long term. In my experience there is nothing that will get a non cyclist to commit to a bike commute long term-the excuses will come rolling in.

    In my office literally 1000’s of people will drive around a car park for 20mins looking for a space rather than park in our other car park 5 mins walk away.

    Tim
    Free Member

    If it’s the Steep I’m thinking of, that’s a bloody big hill if you live at the top 🙂

    matt_outandabout
    Full Member

    For many inexperienced commuters i do not think it is the distance as such, more how much contact they have with traffic. A lot surveyed at our work, didn’t care if it was 1 mile, or 5 miles, they were simply scared of riding a bike in traffic.

    This.

    Add in unlit country roads in winter.

    thisisnotaspoon
    Free Member

    Genuinely interested in how you might try and incentivise people long term. In my experience there is nothing that will get a non cyclist to commit to a bike commute long term-the excuses will come rolling in.

    Agreed.

    There were two types of commuters at my last jobs, engineers on £2k carbon road bikes (we had a good secure storage cage in a barrier accessed underground car park). And the support staff on BSO’s because they didn’t drive. The people who commuted by bike for logical as opposed to financial or because they were cyclists reasons was small.

    And we are talking maybe 40-50 bikes in TdF silly season in an office of 3000 people.

    Don’t know how you’d ever change that. There was secure storage, showers, lockers, even a track pump.

    WillH
    Full Member

    Good on you for putting this together, sounds like a great project.

    Thinking about Vader’s point up there ^ it might be worth having a brief workshop with potential cyclists to find out what their fears/barriers to participation are. What if they get a puncture on the way in? Even if you give some training, fixing a flat in the comfort of your garage is a bit different to doing it on a narrow grass verge with traffic passing close by. Would work pay for a taxi? Could someone nip out to help fix the puncture or pick them up in the car? What I’m getting at is removing the barriers (even if they are just fear of a rare event that it wouldn’t even occur to you to worry about).

    Also, stress that it doesn’t need to be a 100% commitment. In my experience of trying to encourage non-cyclists to ride in, people will use ‘not being able to ride in on a couple of days a week due to X commitment’ as a reason not to ride in at all.

    Make sure they know that riding in just a couple of days a week is fine. Being a fair-weather cyclist, and driving in on wet days, is fine. Driving in when you just can’t be arsed is fine. Making the effort to ride is at least some of the time is a win, and can be built upon if desired.

    MrPottatoHead
    Full Member

    Also…and I know I sound really cynical here which isn’t my intention; I really do think trying to encourage people to cycle is great…

    Not sure how you intend to use employee data but be careful you don’t fall foul of GDPR, which also covers employees info. You ‘may’ be on dodgy ground if using an address to determine who should/shouldn’t be targeted here.

    If you have success, please update this thread.

    TheBrick
    Free Member

    3-4 miles route not radius IMO but the hills through in a curve ball. Steep but really short some would still do. Mellow looking incline prob ok to. Anything else I think any non cycling person is very likely to say no. My file live be Burley in the new forests and there are some very small very mellow hills. The number of people on hire bikes you see walking up these hills is amazing.

    benp1
    Full Member

    3-4 miles is about the top, maybe even less. But as mentioned above it’s very car dependent. I work in Central London, many of my team live less than 5 miles from the office, and it would be a flat commute, but the cars put them off.

    Someone else I know gearing himself up for a 1 mile commute to the office. He drives most of the time still.

    So it’s a combination of distance and route, which you’ve already thought about

    philjunior
    Free Member

    You’re about the right ballpark for hassle free normal clothes cycling. I reckon 5 miles is about the limit before it starts to be a bit of a drag.
    The South Downs are actually pretty hilly, so quite a few people within that radius might choose not to cycle for that reason.

    philjunior
    Free Member

    Oh and:

    – Having mudguards
    – Having a safe feeling route
    – Having somewhere to put the bike and waterproofs

    All help too. We’ve gone from 4-5 cyclists (office of about 400 staff) to about 20-30 cyclists, over half of whom battle through winter, in the space of 12 years I’ve been here. Even dedicated cyclists appreciate showers etc.

    We don’t get offered parking, and it’s pricey if you pay for parking next to the office (£7/day with weekly discounts available but still ~£30 a week).

    cinnamon_girl
    Full Member

    Well done convert with your efforts and do hope that you will update in due course. Your biggest obstacle by the sounds of it is terrain but sounds as though you’re thinking creatively. Could be worth making contact with Andy from this parish who’s on the Hampshire LAF, also ninfan though not sure if he’s still on here.

    Edukator
    Free Member

    It’s a “how long is a piece of string” question and you need more than distance in your algorithm. Age, hair style, body mass index… . and it’ll still be useless because the only thing that counts is the will. If people want to ride in they will and if they don’t they won’t. In my 30s I did 2 x 33 hilly kms a day and enjoyed it. I’d be reluctant to do more than 2 x 10km now. And I’d refuse to do a commute across town unless there were cycle paths because there are too many motorists looking at their lap rather than out of the windscreen these days.

    For those that do have the will, you need to make easy and safe for them. Free electric bikes with integrated lighting maintained by the company, free orange vests, showers, cloakroom with lockers… .

    What about walking? Cycling is encouraged but walking is easier to get people into. Madame ragged one of her colleagues about driving the same route she walks. That was all it took, he too now walks and enjoys it. At less than 2km you’re more likely to get people to walk than cycle IMO – and you might be surprised hw far people are prepared to walk.

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