Currently I have a Salsa Vaya 700x42and a recently built up OG Surly Krampus 29×3.0 Over recent weeks I’ve been experimenting with running the Vaya on some singletrack and trail centres where I’ve ridden the Krampus. Now before someone states the obvious that they are different beasts completely I found that with lower tyre pressures and wise line choices I could ride the trails and enjoy it. This has lead me to question having a wide tyred grave/drop bar 29er as a one bike with possibly two wheel sets like a Cutthroat or similar. Anyone make this decision?

They are incredibly versatile, that’s for sure. My 29er gravel bike has 2.25″ tyres and is very capable.

This morning I’ve taken it along a few miles of singletrack. then bombed down some fast downhill sections (fast and fun), then on to the dirt jump area (not so great for standover reasons) and back via road.

If I were to have a gravel as my only bike, I’d have to have a dropper and low standover, other than that, no worries!

What frame is that cb200?

Looks like Pipedream ALICE

Very capable. I’m running 2.25’s in mine too (Kona Sutla LTD) and I’ll happily take it on almost all of the local singletrack and rides I’d do on my proper mountain bike.

Technical stuff has to be ridden slower but on proper gravel and tarmac it’s really very quick indeed. Tyre choice and pressure makes or breaks it though.

Question still remains anyone swapped out two bikes into one that’ll run wider tyres and if so what bike. I like the Cutthroat and the Sutra ULTD

my drop bar 29+ ss has been all over the peakdisrict, northwales, various trial centres etc..and mooched a stuff like the dirty reiver for hours of spinny gravel bollox happily as well

my 27.5+ drop bar mtb prototype is even more capabale and absolutley rips in singletrack and over tabletops

I had a gravity dropper in my cross bike. People did not approve, but it just made perfect sense, had an even bigger transforming effect htan putting one in a mountain bike since I did much more uppy downy riding and it definitely needed the help.

Obviously can interfere with luggage but otherwise, it seems a no brainer to me.

Yes I approve I think if I do go from two to one bikes I would have a dropper

What frame is that cb200?

Looks like Pipedream ALICE

Yup that’s the one

Bump for the evening crowd now the footie is over. But on a more serious note is this worth considering? Anyone on here running a Cutthroat as their do it all bike?

They are very capable in my experience. There are a lot of threads arguing that you should just get an XC 29er but, in my opinion, it comes down to how you get on with drops and where you want to make compromise. I’ve tried the gravel thing a couple of times and am now in the process of building up a Dirtbomb. Just suits my riding style more. I can only have one bike, spend as little time on roads as possible and prefer a MTB style handlebar.

If I wanted a drop bar all rounder I’d be looking at the ALICE or that thing Nordest make.

That ALICE is a contender but I believe quite heavy. For my I enjoy dropbars and mtb equally but where things get complicated I have to cycle 11 miles to reach gravel or drive 19 every time I want to use the Krampus

I’ve been running a Kona Sutra ULTD for a few months now and its awesome fun.
The limiting factor at the moment is the Rekon tyres it came with as for some reason its still sopping wet everywhere. Having a dropper helps immensely and it can ride ridiculous stuff and induces a serious grin when doing so.
Gets a lot of attention from the enduro bike lot at the local spot haha.

I had a Vagabond and was impressed at how rowdy and capable it could be off-piste. Once I learned (the hard way) to brake/handle/hop from the drops, that is…

I’ve since been dreaming of riding a Bearclaw Beaux Jaxon

I’m a bit dubious about all this… I love my gravel bike, but in terms of actual offroad handling and cornering, drops are never going to be ideal, they hinder leaning the bike over. Sure, you can angle them up and flare them way out (like Rocketdog above) but they’re kind of getting to the.point where they’re not really drops in the low/aero sense any more.

As someone said above, it’s all a compromise, you can get down stuff on drops, but it’s really not what they’re for. For me, if I want to enjoy cornering, descending and speed, I want MTB bars. Covering distance and mixing in some trails, I’ll make the drops work. I wouldn’t want a drop bar bike as my only option off road.

Now, I’m very prepared to shot down in flames here…. but why the obsession with drop bars on bikes that go off-road?

If you’re doing serious road miles, then aero position and multiple hand positions I get. But, surely most people just do backroads and country lanes, mostly not racing, mostly not huge miles on their drop/monster/cross/gravel things?

Just get a bike with flat bars, with more control and light 29er/gravel tyres wheels?

Can’t see the reasoning?

(Having tried gravel/drops/hybrid/all sorts)

Now, I’m very prepared to shot down in flames here…. but why the obsession with drop bars on bikes that go off-road?

If you’re doing serious road miles, then aero position and multiple hand positions I get. But, surely most people just do backroads and country lanes, mostly not racing, mostly not huge miles on their drop/monster/cross/gravel things?

Just get a bike with flat bars, with more control and light 29er/gravel tyres wheels?

Can’t see the reasoning?

(Having tried gravel/drops/hybrid/all sorts)

I’m absolutely +1 on this having done several gravel/CX/drop bar MTB “projects”.

Fully rigid light MTB faster and more fun than gravel/CX/drop bar MTB for me. Nice to scratch an itch on the others but always comes back to the speed/fun factor, even on none tech terrain. For context I race CX on drop bars as well so I’m not new to drop bars off road.

+2 what lardman and CP said.

but why the obsession with drop bars on bikes that go off-road?

I think you have answered you own question straight after asking it

If you’re doing serious road miles, then aero position and multiple hand positions I get.

People also do a lot of miles/hours on their gravel bike with a mix of road, gravel and a bit of off road where multiple hand positions and more importantly not the one flat bar position which is the worst of all. A gravel bike is great for that.
Saying that, I don’t really get the point of a big tyred drop bar bike as I wouldn’t want to ride it far on the road, it is no better on gravel than a 28c tyred bike and if riding mostly on proper off road stuff then an MTB will be a better choice.
But then pretty much nobody understands why I would ride the bike I do so everyone has their reasons.

You could always put some tt bars on a flat barred bike like a Whippet (or similar) with a rigid fork for the aero position on the road.

Tyres choices make a lot of difference to speed on the road and comfort and ability off road.

I think it depends on what route choices you have to play with.

For me my local routes are all rocky or muddy and steep. I’m not sure drop bars would work for me where I am.

If your somewhere lucky enough to have proper long gravel tracks or singletrack in woods etc then the drop bars work.

Just sell your Salsa vaya and buy a new bike that takes a 2 inch tyre and try it with 2 sets of wheels. You will soon know if it works for you or not when you realise you haven’t ridden your mtb in a while.

Can you just swop your vaya frame for a fargo frame?

Bikes are a compromise.

Go a gnarr too far on your gravel bike and long sections of road (or very piss easy fire road) will not be much more fun than on an actual mtb, rather defeating the point.

The temptation of course if you have tasty off road to blend in with your road is to attempt to go down this path. I’m in that position to a certain extent. Whilst not technically owning a gravel bike marketed as such (I’ve got a very capable cross bike that podiumed at the 3 peaks with a much more capable person than me in the saddle and a ‘world traveller’ mutant that started it’s life as an early 29er hardtail), when I do scratch that itch I think it will be setup to be faster and I’ll just blag it/mince it when I get to bits of the trail where an mtb is actually king.

You could always put some tt bars on a flat barred bike like a Whippet (or similar) with a rigid fork for the aero position on the road.

You might want to consider the koga denman bar. It’s what I’ve got on my world traveller style bike. Give you a sort of aero hand position. The sweep might be a bit much for you though – kind of wish mine were not quite so swept back.

Saying that, I don’t really get the point of a big tyred drop bar bike as I wouldn’t want to ride it far on the road, it is no better on gravel than a 28c tyred bike and if riding mostly on proper off road stuff then an MTB will be a better choice.

It’s the quantity an variability of the surfaces your riding that really dictates the size of da tyre.

I found the the wtb horizons in a 650b 47c an absolute dream comfort wise in a lot of mixed condition riding and if there’s any potholes that are obscured by the shadows/sun it’s an unpleasant as opposed to catastrophic experience And when that komoot trail isn’t exactly the smooth trail you expected or you need a quick shortcut across a rutted trail/field.

More air volume is also useful if you puncture tubeless and tbh if it’s a long bimble ride it’s definatelty less jarring and more comfy.

I tend to ride the bigger tyres on my ‘scouting’ rides then decide what tyres/wheels to use would be fine when I ride that way again.

but in terms of actual offroad handling and cornering, drops are never going to be ideal

Agreed, that’s why I ideally keep an aggro hardtail. A pure MTB is the ideal bike for pure MTB. No argument there from me.

Big tyres with drops is just my preferred ATB since first demo-ing a Vagabond.

I teethed, commuted and toured on drop bars in the 1980s and then switched to ATB in 1990. My style of riding is generally exploration and endurance, with local bimbles/errands thrown in. I’m not ‘a mountain biker’, I do everything on a bike from the door, shopping, commuting, extra-urban exploring, keep-fit, visiting friends t’other side of hills, visiting friends 30 miles away. I like to ride away from surfaced roads.

I have an old touring bike that deals with a lot of this, but it’s not an all-rounder like the Vagabond was an all-rounder. As soon as the tyres get above 2” then the tourer becomes a more capable adventure bike. With wide drop-bars and clever tread patterns this breed of burly bike is just something that suits me to T. I’d never for a serious minute suggest that it should suit someone else. The things I like about drop bars are the variable hand-positions, and how they plant and balance me in ‘hover’ mode over the seat.

For some reason they just work so much better for me on my version of a ‘big day out’ which would be about 50 miles, light carry (maybe a bar bag) lanes, tracks, moorland, whatever, some woodland, and lanes again. Big tyres would deal with 4 miles of rutted farm tracks and that piece of singletrack before back to the fire-roads and lanes.

I’m very prepared to shot down in flames here…. but why the obsession with drop bars on bikes that go off-road?

Looking around, I don’t see hardly anyone riding monster-cross. At least where I live. I only ever see MTBs or roadies.

So, yeah no. Define ‘obsession’? Do you mean the recent ‘gravel’ trend? I think that’s more about people wanting a general gadabout rather than a pure MTB, and drop bars are ‘sporty’ innit?

I don’t tend to agree that there is an ‘obsession’. Drop-bar bikes have been around forever, and while wide flat bars are genuinely superior for MTB, they obviously don’t don’t suit the much smaller percentage of people who prefer drops and/or tend to ride wide and far rather than narrow and gnar?

I switched my Vagabond (with drops) for a Longitude (with flat bars) not for the bars but for the longer wheelbase. But I’ll be honest, I miss the drop bars. I miss the Vagabond.

I have an old road tourer with drop bars, but I’m missing the tourist/grandad bars on that!

Very confusing. So now I have an ATB that’s missing drops and a tourer that’s missing sit up and begs. Shock news: the ideal do it all bike doesn’t exist.

My ideal fantasy bikes have cables that instantly decouple allowing me to switch stem + bars wholesale at a whim. ie

Winter drop bars on the tourer. Tourist bars in the summer.

Winter flat bars on the ATB, drop bars in summer

At least when I’ve re-built the hardtail there will be no confusion. Wide risers.

I tend not to see my choice as an ‘MTB with drop bars’, but as a ‘rough tourer with big tyres’

*edit

Or an ‘ATB with drops’.

Take your pick.

‘Monstercross’ sounds awesome though, I just don’t know what it’s supposed to represent!

not alone

The obvious answer is depends entirely on how conformable you are without; dropper-post and suspension, and how much you think drop bars will hold you back. Once those issues have been overcome as much (or as little as you can), you could go anywhere really.

I’ve done a couple of what I would regard as xc mountain bike rides on my gravel bike (Free Ranger running 700*40ish), which I’m really liking so far apart from the incessant rattling of the internal cables.

What that has taught me is that I wouldn’t have a drop bar bike as an only bike unless 80%+ of my riding was back lanes and gravel tracks.

Don’t get me wrong it can be ridden up and down so much more than that (and it’s amazing uphill due to the light weight and lack of rolling resistance) but (for me) it’s so much less fun than even a rigid MTB with some wide bars would be once things get lumpier. It might be a bit of technique as I’m still new to it but I’m not sure I want to persevere with it for that use.

Should I have gone for 650b? Maybe but this was always planned to be a ride from the door bike where most of the ride had zero technical content.

For me, an only bike would have to be something like that rigid PX whippet – with two sets of tyres (or maybe two sets of wheels) one with some 40-50mm “gravel ride” tyres and one with something more MTB oriented. Personally I think the geometry and flat bar would make a much more pleasant all round experience.

I could ride most MTB trails on my CX bike, but not necessarily fast nor fun (aside from the challenge of it).

On open bridleways and fire roads it was fast, so good for covering mileage…although im not sure a good XC bike would have been slower (I had. BFe at the time with 160mm forks).

If I was going the one bike route I’d be tempted by something like a Supercaliber rather than a gravel bike, just for the extra fun off road really

On open bridleways and fire roads it was fast, so good for covering mileage…although im not sure a good XC bike would have been slower

In my limited testing the CX bike is quicker that the XC bike by around 1mph.
The biggest factor is that stretches of gravel can be ridden in the drops or flat arms on hoods whereas an XC bike soon becomes uncomfortable if crouching in an aero tuck.

As I am not racing and ride solo I now use flat bars as I prefer them and don’t care about average speed. I also never ride for more than 2 hours so comfort is not an issue.

which I’m really liking so far apart from the incessant rattling of the internal cables.

The ‘expensive’ bikes just use foam rubber tubing over the internal cables which stops you hearing the rattle, you could do this when you have to do the bottom bracket.

I recently sold my Vagabond. As others have said, an incredible versatile bike and could really do a bit of everything. I also have a Fugio, which is more fun on gravel, road and light trails. Vagabond was probs better for rough bikepacking trips. I also have a couple of road bikes, a FS MTB and a 29 HT, so the Vagabond was overlapping with the others for me. Talking of overlap, the toe clearance was rubbish and caught me out a few times – just Uber 5ft 10 and a medium frame.

I don’t understand why anyone would choose any kind of bike with drop bars for mountain biking. But I do understand why people would choose drop bars for a compromise, ie ‘do it all/ATB’, when the compromise errs towards distance, climbing, gravel, grinding, carrying and comfort vs away from gnar, gravity-sledding, gap-jumps and gurning! Yes you can MTB to a degree on drop bars, and you can ATB and tour/bikepack on flat bars. But you’ll know which you prefer when you’ve tried both/know what kind of riding you do most of. I don’t really get MTBing on a rigid bike at all (no matter which bars) since I passed about 30yrs old. Too much punishment.

I found that with lower tyre pressures and wise line choices I could ride the trails and enjoy it

But ‘enjoying it’ and smashing it are two different things 😎

Talking of overlap, the toe clearance was rubbish and caught me out a few times

Count self lucky to have a Longitude, but I still gnash at the missed opportunity of a ‘Vagitude’ (Not as long as a longitude, not as short as a Vagabond, ability to run drop-bar or flat bar with stem change. Could have been the best of both worlds!

Here are the two together.

I got to try a mile in each other’s shoes before having to let the toe-grabber go. Which is a shame, because it was the most comfortable all-day bike I’ve ever ridden. Just the overlap.

On that note, couldn’t ever see me enjoying something like a PX Free Ranger or any of those arse-up, head-down contraptions 😎

Thanks to dude of doom. I think the frame has an access panel in the down tube I might see if can sort through there without removing the BB.

First job though I want the mountain bike working again!

Some really good opinions about my dilemma and good to get some insight into those that have done it , tried it and went back to a rigid 29er or two dedicated bikes, and those that wouldn’t make that choice. Some more thinking to do with regard to where I ride the most and consider the overlap

I had a vagabond, a rigid 29er and a cross bike at the same time. I think the vagabond lasted 2 proper rides before being sold.

The cross bike is far more fun to ride, it’ll pop off things, jump, corner and do anything else you need it to do right up untill you run out of tyre and start smashing the rims into things.

The rigid MTB was a rigid MTB, everyones knows the pros and cons.

The vagabond was neither. It was too dull to ride like the CX bike. And too limited to ride like an MTB. The only time it worked was when loaded you could trundle and bumble your way down rough tracks without having to worry too much about the tyres/wheels. And it was slow on the road (tarmac or unsealed), I was less exhausted with the MTB on a clubrun!

I think there is a niche for them (TDR, silk road, GBDuro type stuff) but not something to try and live with every day. You can ride them every day, but IMO I’d much rather do the same ride of a fast and light XC bike or CX/Gravel bike.

I’ve seen on some forums Salsa Vayas running 29×2.0 ikons on dry trails might be worth trying to get a subjective view

I’m riding Ikons currently on my Fargo, but previously used Teravail Sparwoods for things like Tuscany Trail.
I like drop bar off road bikes but then I’ve been riding them around and about since the mid 90s after Isla and Andy built me a custom cx bike (which I still use as it takes 42mm tyres).
I’m waiting for a 2.8″able 650b drop bar frame which hopefully will come later this year.

when the compromise errs towards distance, climbing, gravel, grinding, carrying and comfort

This describes my off-road riding pretty much to a t (although haven’t managed to get much into the carrying aspect yet). Where I am it’s generally at least 15/20km of road until you get to something approaching a trail, and then when you get there it’s nothing you need suspension for in the slightest.

If I lived in/near the Peaks, Lakes, or Dales or similar then things would be a very different story but for now I’m getting far more use out of the gravel bike than out of the Whyte G-150 I sold to clear space for it.

I still harbour desires for a solid hard tail in the future though. Maybe in titanium, there’s been a couple of builds on here recently that look amazing.