House re-wire and NIC-EIC regs – Any sparkies in?
The house we’re looking to buy needs a re-wire. Now the mortgage company want to put a retainer on the borrowings until work is carried out..
An inspection has been carried out and a quote provided by an NIC EIC approved chap which goes off to the mortgage company to put a number on the retainer.
My question is, can a sparky that is not NEC EIC approved/registered do the work and then get an NIC EIC sparky in to do an inspection? Does it have to be the person carrying out the work that provides the cetificates etc.?
Person carrying out the work has to sign it off for building regs. Might be able to get someone else to sign off for the mortgage company but I suspect that would be a pain and end up costing more.
Thanks for the info. I was hoping it would be a quick £100 job for someone to come in and inspect once the work had been carried out.. Wishful thinking I guess!
Actually, yes, you can do that. In theory.
However, getting anyone to inspect and test it will be difficult.
A new Scheme started in IIRC, July, where an Approved Inspector will inspect the work, during construction – not after, and when it is complete, then issue a Certificate for you Part P document from the Council.
The problem is, there are’nt any, or very few, people who have applied to do this, so basically, you are stuffed.
Also, NICEIC are not the only Governing body, so you do not have to use one of their members, the Mortgage Co. are probably just saying use them as they are the biggest. ELECSA and NAPIT are 2 others, there some smaller ones too.
You need someone who can self-certify their work.
Any Sparky who signs off someone elses work is an idiot, so I doubt you’d find anyone to do the certification if someone else has done the work.cornholio98Free Member
Realistically while house re-wires are relatively simple it is still easy enough to do something that looks OK but in the end might end up causing you trouble. If you have an NID-EIC approved electrician they should have knowledge of all the regulations and requirements. Also as they get inspected yearly they may end up showing your re-wire to their inspector which if nothing else might give you a warmer more fuzzy feeling that they have done an alright job. Plus if anything goes wrong you have a route back.
I’m prejudiced as my Dad is an Electrician but people always seem to want to go cheap. Poor workmanship can still end up in a house fire or an electrocution from the power shower… Unless I know the tradesperson very well and can verify their work, the only recourse I have is to rely on the governing bodies to give me an appropriately qualified one.
Thanks for the detailed information. Looks like we’ll have to get an NIC EIC approved electrician and just pay the price..
The quote from the inspection was £3500+VAT which I felt was steep for a 3 bed semi in the North East of England.. Does anyone know if this is the right sort of ball park figure for a full rewire?
The quote from the inspection was £3500+VAT
I’d be asking for a breakdown.
That is well over the top.
£2500 would be more like it for a good quality install.
Parts are £750ish, labour, at most for a 3 bed house is 10 days, probably 5 days would be possible. say £1500ish for labour, possibly less.
Dont get hung up on a ‘NICEIC’ electrician. Anyone who is part of one of the Governing bodies should be as competent as any other.
Get some more quotes.donksFree Member
3500 is about the rate depending on the construction/ amount of circuits etc. Second party inspections are a pain in the arse and many contractors won’t touch them. Condition reports yes but not sign of on another’s work.phinbobFull Member
Take the quote to the sellers, negotiate a discount on the purchase price, (split it 50:50?). Once you have bought it, shop around for a cheaper quote. I would still go with an NIC-EIC registered contractor – if you have a problem then the NIC will stand behind the work.
Where in the North East are you? We bought a 3 bed house and had a full rewire and it cost £2100 Inc vat and that was with all relevant certs supplied for insurance purposes. Admittedly ours is a single storey terrace so probably less work involved but I still think £3.5k sounds steep.
if you have a problem then the NIC will stand behind the work.
You are having a laugh aren’t you?
NIC are the worst of a bad bunch. If you complain about shoddy, even dangerous work, all they will do is tell you to ask the original fitter to come back to fix it. They will not come out to inspect it.
If you say he wont come back, they will then come to inspect it, then tell the original fitter to go back to fix it.
You’d think there would be some sanctions against him – turfed out for shoddy work etc. There wont be. He’ll get a letter saying “Dont do it again” But they wont do a follow up visit to make sure he is doing it right.
Do some research into them. They allow one person in a Company to be registered with them. That person can then employ 10 other people who have very little electrical experience to do his work, He then sits in the office, signs all the certificates, but never sees the work.
Google Emma Shaw – that was an NICEIC company.
Clealry not many are like that, but it isnt the Governing body that is important (actually, disregard who they are with), but the person doing the work.
To the OP, dont go for what logo he has on his van, go for a reputable Trader, preferably recommended by someone else.
That’s the dilemma.. I know an electrician highly recommended by family and friends but not NIC EIC. I think I need to get some clarification from the mortgage company, as the last thing I want is for them not to release the retention following work completion.
Thanks again everyone for info.
I’m up in Newcastle BTW
The chap I used is from South Shields, used him as I knew him through work. Don’t think he was NICEIC but one of the others. I wasn’t restricted though as mortgage company weren’t keeping money back on the basis of works needing doing.
Have you dont the maths on a 750 / 5 day install for say 1 spark and min wage apprentice
After overheads he will be left with about 55 pence/hr 😉
Less if he needs 10 days
If its stud walls through out and an easy thread maybe cheap like you say , if you need every wall raggled and outlets/switches added / outbuildings it soon adds up. 3500s the going rate a couple of mates have paid recently to have their aolid brick houses done – not including making good raggling,
Read what I said again, – £1500 would be a reasonable labour figure for a 3 bed house rewire.
I could do it myself in 7 days easily, probably less.
I did a terrace house in 4 days recently, and that was a real pain getting floorbords up / access into loft etc.
One person taking it easy over 10 days will be on £150/day. After overheads that is very close to £30k/yr, which is a reasonable wage for something at the lower end of the electrical market.
JIB rates for a self-employed skilled electrician are £16.16/hr – £128/day, so £150/day is pretty good for general construction work.
The niceic don’t make the regulations up. So your mortgage co prob quoted them as they are the only private governing body they’ve heard of. As stated there is a few others.
Use whoever you want, but I’d run it past your mortgage co first and if they give you any hassle ask them to explain why it has to be niceic.
Alani if your in the north east and will work for £128 a day self employed, can wire a house in 4 days and sign off your own work, give me a call and I’ll take you on full time.
The sparks I use have always charged per outlet and stuck a bit extra on for awkward stuff.
I’ve paid from £25-45 per point plus vat in the past.footflapsFull Member
NB alanl knows his stuff, having used him, I can say he is very good!
He saved us from another company who were totally incompetent and complete rip off merchants (and NIC EIC approved).rwamartinFree Member
The mortgage company are not allowed to specify NICEIC – it can be any of the governing bodies.mrmonkfingerFree Member
if you need every wall raggled
I’m sure he is Footflaps but I use self self employed sparks nearly every week and if I told him I’m paying him £128 a day he’d tell me in not so polite terms “no, find someone else”
Someone who is a full time subby on site, yes, but not someone who runs their own company.
Fair play if your willing to work for that, im in aberdeen where prices are higher – just trying to get a quote for a retrofit rewire is a mission – they would much rather do new build price work as they make more money throwing them in. the guy that did my buddys only took it on as he promised to totally empty the house of furniture and carpets before he started – so all his belongings were packed into a garage and he moved into a friends spare room during the work.
Thanks for all of the information above everyone.
Quick update. The mortgage company explained that the work must be carried out by a sparky registered with NICEIC or the Institute of Electrical engineers.
Does anyone know if there are any other governing bodies?
An interesting point was that when speaking to a local sparky he explained he was Part P registered and would be able to self certify his work and give me the relevant certificates etc. (but was not NIC EIC) but I’m not sure if this will be adequate? (or what this even means!)
It’s all a bit confusing.. I’m getting a quote from a 2nd NICEIC sparky who has been recommended by a family member so lets hope this quote is less than 3.5k+VAT!SonorFree Member
ELECSA or NAPIT. The only reason the NICEIC get quoted the most is because they are very good at advertising their wares to the point that people believe that the NICEIC are the only Organisation that does PartP and they make the regs up.
IEE is now IET, and they don’t do PartP schemes, they actually make the electrical regulations(BS7671).
Your mortgage company sounds like they are well out of date.
Thanks Sonor. That does clear things up – sounds like as long as I get Part P and the relevant documentation following the install I should be good with the mortgage company.. They haven’t been particularly helpful so far TBH.dvatcmarkFree Member
Correct part p documents are the important ones for the mortgage as it’s building regs. However some kind of documentation to say the installation is safe would be a pretty normal request, which any component electrician will provide. NIC etc is just a method of proving competence.
The iet wiring regs aren’t law, whereas part p. is. However you’ll have a fight on your hands to get part p if you don’t meet the 17th edition regs.timbaFree Member
This website explains most of what you want to know, the register went live in June 2014 so it’s up to date, check to see if your mortgage company is aware of it Registered Competent Person
Part P is part of the Building Regs and must be complied with and, where appropriate, certificated (some work doesn’t need to be notified) Part P
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