• This topic has 32 replies, 20 voices, and was last updated 1 month ago by ahsat.
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  • House Planning
  • Premier Icon jolmes
    Free Member

    We’re about to make an offer on a house that needs a bit of work – new kitchen/bathroom, rewire, new boiler, full carpets/laminate etc. Reason for buying is the 800sqm garden…but also location and bigger house, more potential. Obviously assuming we get the house. Its been on the market since March and had no offers due to the size of the work/garden – 7 months of overgrown-ness

    Ideally, we’d want to put a single story extension on the back and extend the dining room/kitchen into a larger open plan space.

    In its current state, its not livable with 2 young childen, the kitchen is tiny and a mess and the Mrs and I are debating which order to do things.

    If we do things her way its expensive as we’d end up paying twice for trades (see later) but more manageable. Make the ground floor open plan, taking out two walls in which to create kitchen/diner/lounge. Put in a temp kitchen and get house rewired and a new boiler. This would make it livable. We’d then save/remortgage for the extension and get the real kitchen put in place (the 2nd kitchen and 2nd kitchen fit).

    My idea, get an extension on the mortgage, or a personal loan in which I need to discuss with my mortgage broker to which would be better. Send the mrs and kids to her parents for 2 months whilst the extension is built with the new kitchen. Then once that is done, they can come back and continue with the rest of the plan.

    Anyone who has bought a house that needed work doing? whats the general game plan?

    Premier Icon steve-g
    Free Member

    If you can afford to get straight on with the extension and avoid putting in a temporary kitchen then that’s the way I would go. Unless by temporary you mean 10 year temporary.

    Also, sending the family away for 2 months shouldn’t be necessary while having an extension built, the first 4 – 6 weeks of that wont impact you in the house, there will just be builders in the garden until it gets to them knocking it through.

    Premier Icon crikey
    Free Member

    Hmmm.

    With 2 young kids, buying a house that needs…
    new kitchen,
    new bathroom,
    rewire,
    new boiler,
    carpeting,
    major garden work
    and an extension, seems like letting yourself and your family in for a lot more grief than they and you need at the moment.

    YMMV.

    Premier Icon trail_rat
    Free Member

    the first 4 – 6 weeks of that wont impact you in the house, there will just be builders in the garden until it gets to them knocking it through.

    Having just done an extension similar to the ops description and it taking 6 weeks total. If it involves any decent length of structural steel you’ll be removing the wall before you build any extension so the op is right to be concerned.

    Premier Icon tjagain
    Full Member

    I would tend to agree with crikey. I have done up 3 properties – each one total refits two while we lived in them and a mix of diy and pros.

    One I had to put in a temp kitchen but even so one christmas we had to wash up in the bath – no sink downstairs.

    It always takes longer than you think and creates so much mess.

    If you are really wedded to the idea then certainly do not have the kids in the building while doing it. Dangers and mess.

    Premier Icon trail_rat
    Free Member

    Big garden….put in a cheap residential caravan till the building work is done.

    If your paying trades it won’t take all that long

    Assuming you project manage it right……so if you have no building experiance get a builder in who does to project manage it or you’ll have trades appearing at the wrong times and not have the right materials on site.

    Premier Icon jolmes
    Free Member

    We’d defo be getting trades in to do the work and whomever does the extension I’d get someone proficient enough to project manage too. Whilst I can fit a kitchen and pretend I know what I’m doing to knock down walls, I wouldnt risk it.

    Quite like the idea of a caravan but the Mrs shot me a look to suggest she’s seen to many grand designs and knows what happens…

    I’m more inclined to get the extension first, get plans drawn up once we’ve secured the property and start getting quotes. Think thats the right order of business.

    Oh, only the kitchen really NEEDS doing, the other things are just additions to bring it up to date and make things nicer.

    Premier Icon djflexure
    Full Member

    We did exactly this- perhaps should have knocked everything down and started from scratch but we did not feel that we could afford that so tackled the old bit then saved and did the extension.

    Finished everything 4 years ago and the whole project probably took another 4.

    What did I learn.
    I would probably get an architect in at the start to advise on layout

    We got one to plan the extension after the innards of the old house were done. He made some suggestions that involved undoing some of that work. We did not go down that road but useful to know what your options are at the start.

    Try and find one really good tradesman who you can trust. We got a great carpenter who did kitchens and bathrooms. I think we were lucky but he introduced us to other good people so we were able to project management the extension ourselves and cut costs.

    We did it with 3 young kids and tried to keep one room habitable for them. We slept on a mattress downstairs for several months

    At one point we had an outside kitchen and shower in the garden

    We all survived and have a lovely house now

    It was hard work but we stuck together and never questioned our choice

    Premier Icon jimdubleyou
    Full Member

    I would probably get an architect in at the start to advise on layout

    Or a structural engineer Who has done similar houses.

    Ours came up with a great layout for down stairs we hadn’t thought of.

    Premier Icon jolmes
    Free Member

    I would probably get an architect in at the start to advise on layout

    Yeah thats a great idea, the other halfs auntie is an architect so we’re asking her to give us some ideas but shes a bit wild, her own house is batshit mental and I’m hoping we can reign her in a bit 🙂

    Premier Icon djglover
    Free Member

    We did it with a great builder who moved us round from room to room as we went he did all the work himself other than plumbing and electrics, the kids had to share for a while and we used a bedroom as a lounge etc. We did the build in 2016, it took 11 months. I did all the decorating and I only just finished the garden and other bits during lockdown. So it can drag on!

    What ever you think it will cost, double it, then you still have to decorate and furnish it. I will not be cheap. Make sure you consider things like UFH which won’t be able to be retro-fitted later on

    Premier Icon TheBrick
    Free Member

    I was going to suggest a static but sounds like no no. Have you tried selling the caravan idea to her in terms of money / costs? You can always keep things like washing machines plumbed in temp to the garage etc so it only really washing a bit of cooking and sleeping that’s in the caravan.

    Premier Icon NZCol
    Free Member

    I’ve done a few total rebuilds and I would make sure you design for the end result then work out how stageable it is. Honestly, having lived in two utter shells i couldn’t do it with kids , last one we got a rental for 3 months and smashed through it way more quickly than we would normally to get it done – full structural changes and and a complete strip and refit.

    Premier Icon johndoh
    Free Member

    In my opinion anything is doable if you want to make it work. I’d be sealing off parts of the house and living in what remains and just decamp for the times when you have no utilities. We bought our present house when our girls were 4 yrs old (similar work to the OPs required, but not quite as extensive) and only moved out whilst a wall was being removed and steels put in (and because the in-laws live only a few miles away so it was convenient).

    When I was a kid my parents did similar and just put a tent in the garden for cooking etc and we all thought it was the best thing ever LOL!

    And in answer to the OP question – I would just get an extension to the mortgage so I could get all the work done once and (assuming the product allows overpayments) try to chip away at the additional lending so you aren’t paying interest over the full term.

    Premier Icon mj27
    Free Member

    Done a few house extensions and remodelling of the original house. My advice is:

    Find someone to challenge your ideas and also to work out what you really want.

    Discuss your ideas with your wife and vice versa so you know in detail what you are trying to achieve. Work hard at this to avoid upset and disappointment.

    It WILL get you down, chaos and dust everywhere is soul-destroying, keep somewhere in your house normal and clean and free from building stuff.

    Get a vac dedicated for the dust, it will kill any house vac.

    Have a plan of the works and do it in stages and/or have milestones so you can measure progress.

    Have some money set aside for the unexpected, they are on every job.

    Be a good client to the trades, clear what you want, set out your expectations, pay on time and discuss when you feel it is not correct.

    Don’t let the works erode your marriage! Building works upset people, it brings out new emotions that some find hard to handle and express.

    Remind yourself it will look great and you are making a home for your family!

    Premier Icon twinw4ll
    Free Member

    We bought a scruffy one bedroom bungalow approx 700sq ft on a large plot, I then spent the best part of 10 years turning it into a 5 bed 4 bathroom with 2600sq ft of floor space, I also build a seperate large garage, I did most of the work myself budgeting as we went along, for the extension part we borrowed £50k. We sold it three years ago to downsize and retire at 55.
    If architects and builders had been involved it would have been done quicker, but not to such a good standard and probably would have cost at least twice as much.
    To help with your question, you need to get a solid plan of action, get everything in the correct order, don’t fool yourself when costing out stuff and then stick to said plan, simple really.

    Premier Icon andykirk
    Free Member

    twinw4all thank goodness you didn’t get architects and builders involved.

    You would surely have ended up spending way too much money for a house that was built to a low standard.

    OP – Get an architect in and finalise the layout/ design of the whole house and extension first. That is your starting block. Then you can plan how you are going to phase the construction.

    Premier Icon brickwizard
    Free Member

    Don’t under estimate length of time to get things drawn up, engineers report building warrant it all takes time, building control in our area are stretched and applications taking months

    Premier Icon FunkyDunc
    Free Member

    Rent some where to live while you do it or stay with relatives. The trades will thank you, and you will much prefer your new home after

    Premier Icon trail_rat
    Free Member

    Can you make your extension fall within permitted development without compromising ?

    We just had 21sqm put on the back and thanks to an existing 5sqm extension landing on the the party wall that we were not modifying just continuing the same profile across the back of the house we managed to get permitted development instead of full blown planning…..

    Took 4 weeks to get the warrent done for the structural work

    Premier Icon twinw4ll
    Free Member

    Andykirk, I wrote, not such a good standard, I didn’t say a low standard, try to pay attention.
    I did get architects advice initially and I was told I wouldn’t be able to do what I had in mind because of the planning restrictions. I decided to ignore the advice and go for it anyway, luckily for me the architect was talking o o h a.
    People build fabulous properties designed by architects that is also a fact.

    Premier Icon trail_rat
    Free Member

    So moral of the story is pick a bad architect take 10 years to finish house ?

    As I said good project management who ever that May be makes huge difference to time take

    Premier Icon i_scoff_cake
    Free Member

    May want to check if a planning permission for such an extension has already been refused on the property because that would make you significantly less likely to get permission second time around, otoh it may even be possible on permitted development but I would expect that to be unduly restrictive.

    Premier Icon trail_rat
    Free Member

    permitted development but I would expect that to be unduly restrictive.

    Unless it involves a conservation zone/listed building /party wall /boundary proximity then it’s unlikely to be very prohibitive as the rules on permitted development relaxed quite significantly

    Premier Icon Riofer
    Free Member

    Logging this thread for future reference as we are planning a similar project in 2021.

    Our plan is to try and stay in our current house whilst doing a full renovation and extension on a new place. Sounds good in theory but I need to see if the bank will make this possible.

    Have any of the serial renovators used bridging loans or had 2 mortgaged properties whilst doing a project?

    Premier Icon djflexure
    Full Member

    Two architects advised us that we were unlikely to get permission for what we wanted to do – large double story and extension – but plot is quite big and neighbours while in vision, not to on top of us.

    I think they in part had to advise us that there could be a problem

    In any event the application sailed through

    Our local planning officers seemed to take a common sense approach- I expect this will vary from region to region

    Premier Icon djflexure
    Full Member

    Architects fees were also very reasonable I thought

    My wife project managed but she rang him up once or twice and he was always helpful

    Premier Icon jolmes
    Free Member

    Yeah architects will be first port of call. I’ve looked at the planning applications for the area and surrounding houses and most of the extensions have fallen in mline with permitted development, as our extension will be a single story around 5x3m it should be ok. The neighbours have this extension and a conservatory on the back and needed no planning permission according to the file and the parish council website planning page.

    Premier Icon breatheeasy
    Free Member

    I’m assuming the mortgage isn’t like 95% or something? Might be worth checking you can get the mortgage ‘plus’ or unsecured loan first. Bank won’t lend on what a house might be worth after work so you might want to just confirm that aspect before the plans get too far.

    Premier Icon jolmes
    Free Member

    @breatheeasy – If we get the house for the right price we should be able to whack 20% deposit on it and have enough equity to build the extension, paired with some savings along the line, we’re both on mat/pat leave till January and already have spoken to our mortgage broker regarding the money side.

    Some of this is still hypothetical ie, we dont have the house yet! But its had zero interest since a collapsed deal at the start of lockdown

    Premier Icon spacemonkey
    Free Member

    +1 move into a portable home thingy in the garden. Friends did this 24 months ago when hubby’s builder dad levelled most of the house for a rebuild. It comfortably fitted all 4 of them from autumn into spring. Lots of foundation issues were discovered and that delayed kick off by several weeks.

    They moved back into the house after 6-9 months and still haven’t finished the project.

    Premier Icon jolmes
    Free Member

    Update*
    Our house just sold, put in an offer on the house we want.
    Got a 2nd viewing on it on wednesday with an architect and spoke to a few builders too, now just worry about how much this is going to cost!

    Premier Icon ahsat
    Full Member

    My parents did a big project when we were 11 and 6. They managed to get my brother and I into some sort of normal bedrooms (my Dad was painting my bedroom wall as the removal men worked round him) but the rest of the house was start from scratch (no extension needed). To be honest it was 6 months of mayhem (I wouldn’t use the bath is it was so manky – my Mum sort of just hosed me off in the garden/enforced wash) and we stayed with grandparents a few times (I realise more tricky at the moment) but I remember it being a right adventure as we could ride bikes in the house ;-P My parents view of that time is almost certainly different to mine though… (not helped by me missing a lot of school due to anxiety – not the house, just the move to ‘big school’).

    Good luck!

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