Survey on a house I’m very keen on (offer accepted) has come back with 3 areas of damp. It’s an end terraced cottage built around 1900 but damp is in party wall, front elevation and a a small area upstairs probably due to dodgy window. Surveyor has also commented re possible poor quality cavity wall injection and previous damp proof course.

House has been virtually unoccupied for at least a year (owner stays elsewhere) and I didn’t notice any damp or smell in my viewings. Could this have something to do with it and the surveyor is being overly cautious?

Worth investigating further and getting full reports? Is this the sellers responsibilty as the problem is his at the moment, or run a mile.

It’s in a perfect location and ticks every box as my ideal property but I can’t afford hefty repairs as I’m stretching to buy it in the first place.

Advice welcome, even if it’s ‘run a mile’. Cheers

Get a damp survey done. Shouldn’t be expensive compared to buying house then trying to sort out damp problems after.
Our house had major damp problems which we got sorted before buying it. Walls were stripped back to brick,ceilings replaced, air bricks installed, walls injected etc. House was a mess for about 2 months. But that was a council right to buy thing.
If you can’t afford to do the repairs move on and find another property.

Rising damp is just a catch all surveyors use and very rarely exists.

99% chance it’s water penetration and not rising damp eg leaking gutter, leaking pipe, leaving shower tray etc.

My house has ‘rising damp’, turned out to a leaking shower tray on the other side of the wall….

I would be concerned that the cavity wall insulation has been bodged myself. Worth getting it investigated further to see what the cause is. You may need to walk away or revise your offer down if the vendor won’t rectify the problem.

Plenty of houses out there at the moment, and not many buyers.

A good read: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Rising-Damp-Myth-Jeff-Howell/dp/product-description/0953455726

He has a website somewhere with loads of good info on it.

EDIT: http://www.askjeff.co.uk/rising_damp.html

Was just about to post that Footflaps 🙂

“rising damp” = Lazy Survey.

Or more often than not

“rising damp” = Salesman wants your wonga.

Another top tip, as the survey has ‘rising damp’ on it, the building society will most likely insist you waste a few hundred on a pointless chemical barrier to be injected into the bricks. However, as they have also insisted the same on the previous owner, just get their receipt / certificate and give that to the BS to save the cost. NB The barriers are useless and just make a mess of a row of nice Victorian bricks. All part of the Rising Damp Myth money making machine.

The whole house buying survey thing is a real eye opener. My 1890s house came back with a 60 page report listing 100s of major issues which needed urgent attention. 15 years later, having renovated the whole thing, not a SINGLE major defect item in the survey was correct. Every defect they listed didn’t actually exist when you looked. Surveyors are just a bunch of con men.

Thanks guys. Some interesting stuff there and my solicitor made a comment re surveyors ‘covering their arse’ which I suppose is understandable these days.

Owner is in NZ at the moment so trying to get info might be difficult for a while and his estate agent is (as usual) a complete waste of space.

One other point is that there is water bubbling up from a burst water pipe in the driveway. Agent says it is from next door and the council is going to sort it. Can this be right? It is not a council or ex-council property and I was always under the impression that pipes were either water authority or, if it’s on your property, the responsibility of the house owner.

agree with most of that, go and look at your nearest river, stream, open sewer, whatever. notice the rocks in the water, how come they’re not soaked all the way up? because damp doesn’t rise. its more likely to do with water penetration from a leaky gutter etc. or cavity wall insulation, another stupid idea. the cavity is there to stop water ingress. the first skin can be porous, the idea is that water can come through and run down the inside of the first skin down to ground level. if it comes up against a solid lump of foam or whatever, it just comes through the wall. in new builds you keep the insulation away from the outside skin with the use of little clips on the wall ties, on retro fit cavity insu, they just drill holes in and spray foam in, would be worth taking bricks out and scooping it all out. if the house is perfect in all other ways, buy it, and come back to the singletrack massive to help sort it

once worked with a guy who did this for a living and basically all rising damp is water condensation in a cold area fof your house or water penetration.

Apparently if you dont live in a swamp you cannot get rising damp and even then capillary action only take it to a few feet.
As you note you have it upstairs and not downstairs – how exactly does that work- it rose and missed a bit that stayed dry?

Probably worth investigating as to the causes but it is not rising damp- water ingress or lack of air circulation due to non residency are the likely causes

yes if its on your property its your responsibility, easily fixed tho

Surveyor has also commented re possible poor quality cavity wall injection and previous damp proof course.

I’d be very surprised if a 1900 terraced house had a cavity wall

In the past I have phoned my surveyor and ask them to explain their comments and in one case I insisted on a site visit as the report was unclear.

Given that most houses were built with solid walls in the 1900s, the comment on cavity wall insulation seems very odd. As for the comment on the previous damp proof course (presume an injected system) ask the vendor for copies of any paperwork, specialist provides guarantees on damp proof courses as mortgage companies require them. The damp upstairs/dodgy window, if the damp is under the window then the surveyor is probably right.

Just to recap the house is 110 years old and has been un-occupied for at least a year and you didn’t notice or smell any damp when you visited, then my gut feeling is the surveyor is covering their @r$e

get a quote to cover fixing any problems and then reduce the offer to cover the works.

tbh I’d walk.

Bought many houses and if you’ll have no spare cash its better to either buy something cheaper or better. And if its a terrace then I’m sure there are many others in that ‘location’ either for sale, or will come up for sale.

Given that most houses were built with solid walls in the 1900s

not the case mate, all the houses round here (calderdale, mill workers houses) built in the early 19th century all have cavity walls, with brick or stone ties

As jota180 and Kona TC says, 1900 is very early for cavity wall construction – not used until 1920’s. If the surveyor hasn’t even got the basic construction method right then I’d take everything else that they’ve said with a very big pinch of salt . . . and I’d also start looking for a more competent surveyor.

Really interesting post.

I have a damp issue visible in that plaster/paint bubbles on a wall between floor and waist height. Also around the window frames. The walls are solid, I.e. not cavity so I been trying to figure out what to do.

The room is shaded and consequently quite cool, also it is seldom used so door shut most of the time.

Would it be best to leave a heater on in the room and the door open as the first step to resolving?

Ps sorry for the hijack but it’s one of those things I’ve been putting of resolving for fear of some damp scammers!

No cavity in my 1914, brick built, Calderdale built house 🙂

19th century is the 1800’s BTW 🙂

I’d suspect condensation rather than damp per se in an old terrace house
They’ve had all the old draughty doors and windows changed and now don’t breath enough

see http://www.askjeff.co.uk/rising_damp.html

(I’m a builder), ‘rising damp is’ usually penetrating damp, condensation, or a bridged damp proof course (EG a path is laid outside that is above the damp course). Penetrating damp is usually traced to things like broken or leaking gutters. Condensation could be caused by blocked off airbricks/ lack of background heating.

The meters that surveyors use are inaccurate, the chemical dampproof course injection industry is a con/ rip-off. (There is a pillar of bricks at the building research establishment that have been standing in a trough of water since the last war – spookily there is no evidence of ‘rising damp’ yet)

If it had damp and had been empty for a year you’d smell it the moment you stepped through the door.

Both the houses I’ve bought (victorian) have been empty and “had damp” according to the surveyors report.
Needless to say I’ve done nothing, and I’ve had no issues so far with peeling paint, mould growing, bronchitis etc 🙂

Our last house was built in 1690 out of lumps of rock and cowshit (probably). No cavities, no DPC and yes, occasionally we had damp issues. Every single one could be traced to a blocked gutter, a leaking window, a slipped roof tile or something else letting rainwater go somewhere it shouldn’t, with the exception of the bits in the backs of cupboards that were condensation on cold walls with inadequate ventilation.

Small localised areas of damp? I’d double check whether it’s a Cavity wall or Solid wall construction. If Solid, hack off the plaster and replace with waterproof render. Then check any external areas for damage and repair as necessary.

An easy Sunday’s DIY or £100 to a handyman.

I have a 1890’s end of terrace cottage and had some damp patches when we bought it

Had the plaster removed and redone with the correct stuff, all fine apart from the usual condensation issues.

To be expected in these old houses, not much wrong with them, but building materials have changed a lot since they were built

(no cavity wall in mine)

or a bridged damp proof course (EG a path is laid outside that is above the damp course).

How would one diagnose such an issue?

Rising damp is just a catch all surveyors use and very rarely exists.

99% chance it’s water penetration and not rising damp eg leaking gutter, leaking pipe, leaving shower tray etc.

Yep, our rising damp turned out to be (mainly) rising from a botched roof, down the inside of the walls. Clever eh?

Am I the only one that thought of this…

Thanks for all the comments advice, the vast majority of which seem to say it’s not a lot to worry about.

I’ve copied the relevant sections of the survey below and re-reading them I’m not sure it’s all that bad. Comments appreciated if you can be bothered wading through it. Cheers

The walls which are approximately 275mm (11′) thick, have a masonry inner leaf
and an outer skin of brick with the two leaves being separated by an air gap. The
side wall of the rear utility is only 200mm in thickness we assume two layers of
brickwork laid adjacent without a cavity.
3
There are signs of a poor quality injected damp-proof course to the main portion of
the dwelling and a felt damp-proof course to the utility area.
High moisture meter readings were noted to several areas within the property
particularly to the front elevation, within the utility room, and the gable wall within
the lounge. This is most probably due to the lack of an effective damp-proof
course in these areas. Further investigations are recommended by a PCA
registered contractor.
The remedial works could be costly and estimates should be obtained before
exchange of contracts.
Where windows have been replaced we are unable to determine if adequate
provision has been made to support the outer leaf of brickwork above. Although no
signs of failure were found, additional support may be required in the future.
To the ground floor lounge window there is a metal lintel visible although this is rusting heavily which is not uncommon for this type of finish. This will continue to rust and the mortar pointing on either side of the window will crack and lift. This lintel should be replaced when the window is next renewed.
It is not known whether the external cavity walls contain insulation and as this could reduce large heat losses, it should be considered as a possible mprovement.
Before any work is carried out, the cavities should be checked to ensure no
blockages are present which could lead to damp when the cavities are filled.
The cavity walls of this property are formed in two leaves which are usually held
together with metal wall ties. The metal ties used in properties built before the
early 1980s were prone to corrosion which, if significant, could lead to structural movement. In this respect, we noted that replacement wall ties have been inserted since original construction. Your legal adviser should check for any necessary approvals and guarantees for this work

The property has a combination of mainly solid masonry and plasterboard lined/
timber framed internal walls.
3
As stated in Section E4 above high moisture readings were noted to ground floor
walls and further investigations are recommended by a damp-proofing contractor. –
The remedial works could be costly and estimates should be obtained before
exchange of contracts.
High moisture readings were also noted around the window reveals and to a small
area of the front wall to the side of the front bedroom window. The exact cause of this is not possible to determine from within the limitations of our inspection, although it is possible that moisture is entering through faulty pointing to the exterior or around the frame of the window, and further investigations by a reputable builder are recommended.
This is not considered to be either serious or urgent and can be dealt with soon
after taking ownership.
It should be noted that the original plaster finish may well be reaching the end of its serviceable life. As it deteriorates, it loses its adhesiion

SUMMARY
J1 E4: Main walls – rising damp;
Risks to the building
J2 D: Local Environment – mining in area.
Risks to the grounds
J3
Risks to people
F3: Internal walls and partitions – rising damp;
E5: Windows – inadequate means of escape;
F5: Fireplaces, chimney breasts and flues – redundant asbestos heating flue.
F7: Woodwork – stairs unsafe;
G1: Electricity –
G2: Gas –
G3: Water –
G4: Central heating –
G5: Water heating –
H1: Garage – fire door to garage.

Update

Owner is back from NZ and turns out that a damp-proof course was done 6 years ago with a 20 year guarantee and the builder appears to be reputable, still in business and is checking it this week. It is a bit odd that the survey reported “It should be noted that the original plaster finish may well be reaching the end of its serviceable life” as this was all done 6 years ago apparently!

Fingers crossed all is ok and I’ll be gutted if I don’t get the house as it’s right on the C2C route, loads of cracking mtb stuff on the doorstep and 1 minute from one of the top 100 climbs in the UK (which will be a nice walk for me 😀 )

Google map

I owned an end terrace that had rising damp. Nothing worked. The only thing that temporarily halted it was a dehumidifier in the cellar. It had a 2litre bucket on it and initially had to be emptied twice a day. I loved the character of the place but would never buy another coz of the dampness.

If rising damp doesn’t exist why did all the bricks on my mums house below the DPC spall and disintegrate and the bricks directly above it stayed as good as new? There was no difference to the water running over either, no other environmental differences and they were directly adjacent. Happened all round the house and on all faces, it’s pretty common on 50’s & 60’s houses.

Not stirring, genuine question.

This article goes some way to explaining the (many) possible causes pictonroad.