Hi,

Tried recently Zee 4 pots brakes on my friends bike and SLX is not giving me same joy as before.

Quick question: Hope E4 or Saint 820? Which would be better for light-ish (10.5 st)rider with massively over-built trail bike?

Cheers!
I.

Hopes, having owned both. Both are excellent.

Big fan of Hope. More serviceable and better modulation. Although if you’re comparing to saint, consider the V4.

Having said that, 180/160 E4 on a Turner RFX with 15st aboard had no bother with a week’s riding in verbier.

You are not helping honourablegeorge 😉

Thanks for input!

Cheers!
I.

Hope E4! Love mine, low and easy maintenance, great design and build quality.

14st here and run 203/183, looks beast and stops like crazy!

No apologies for the obvious reply, but erm… Zees…?

You know you want to. Bonus points for braided hoses.

Zees got one major flaw in my opinion.
No tool-free lever distance from the handlebars adjustment.
Using it a lot on SLXs, do not want to faff with alen key.
Cheers!
I.

When you can revive a dodgy brake with a seal kit rather than a new calliper or lever. Hope all day long.

Currently tossing up between the e4 or the sram guide rs/rsc for my choice. The guide levers feel really nice. After trying the shimano experiment I’m back to the others.

I think shimano brakes are generally very on off, hopes have modulation. Both are extremely powerful .

You quickly get used to either system, you just have to decide if you want to spend the extra cash on the hopes.

Saints. Never liked hope, always felt spongy and based on my friend experience they seem unreliable.
However for such a liteweight rider I would have thought saints to be massive overkill.

Love the Hopes. I have E4 on the full-sus, M4 on the hardtail (previous model and near identical to the E4). One set is three years old, the others six years old. In total they’ve been bled three times and had some seals replaced once. Still feel as good as when they were new – loads of power but subtlety for riding on the edge of grip, particularly good in loose conditions.

The M4 are paired with the Race Evo levers, the E4 with the Tech 3 levers. They both feel similar and deliver the same power but the additional bite point adjustment on the Tech 3 allows you to easily get near perfect set-up regardless of pad or disc wear or personal preference. Tool-free reach adjust is worth the extra grams too!

Another option, can you not use the SLX levers with the ZEE Caliper?

you can but the sweep volume of the piston is different so you’ll have more lever pull to push the pistons the same amount with the SLX.

I run Zee on my Dartmoor hornet and saint on my suppressor, never needed to use the tool free adjustment once set. I only got saint for a bit more bling

Cheers Chaps!

Some good ideas and suggestions.

It would be probably all down to costs…

Cheers!
I.

Zees got one major flaw in my opinion.
No tool-free lever distance from the handlebars adjustment.

It is possible to add the adjuster and the free stroke screw.

That screw/allen Bolt is to long, think a 12mm is what is needed with a small head.

When you can revive a dodgy brake with a seal kit rather than a new calliper or lever. Hope all day long

That’s the only thing that puts me off buying Shimano brakes, just seems totally wasteful having to bin something that could be fixed for a couple £££’s 😕

My hardtail needs new brakes and despite all the slx/xt bargains around I’ll probably end up getting some hope X2’s. I’ve got M4’s on another bike and in 5 years all I’ve had to do is replace the master cyl piston in both levers at £4-5 each and bleed them 2 or 3 times.

About to sell some Zees

Check Ubyk for well priced Hooes

Cheaper than Saints when I looked earlier this week

Rush weren’t bad for E4’s when I definitely wasn’t looking last week, either…

The thing I don’t like about my E4s compared to my M4s, is that they seem much harder set up and get the alignment with the disk right. The clearance is so narrow, and it has to be pitch perfect, and you can’t just grab the lever then bolt on the caliper to align it. It becomes a real hassle and an annoyance, as it’s not perfect, they’re still rubbing a tad.

Thanks everybody!

Ended up with E4. After all deliberations and options Wiggle with price match was the cheapest option for version with braided hoses.

Cheers!
I.

I run Zee on my Dartmoor hornet and saint on my suppressor, never needed to use the tool free adjustment once set. I only got saint for a bit more bling

I thought that too until I boiled a set of ZEEs stuck behind a brake happy (lighter) rider I couldn’t pass in a race, he kept taking the overtaking lines.
My levers went to the bars, if I had tool free adjustment I could have wound the levers out to try and get some braking back.

Had Saints. Levers pulled to the bar all the time and had to be pumped up to work. Gave them constant attention and persevered for two years before I gave up.

Bought V4’s. No problems since.

The thing I don’t like about my E4s compared to my M4s, is that they seem much harder set up and get the alignment with the disk right.

You must be referring to the much older M4 calipers. My 2011 M4 calipers only differ from the E4 in that the hose and bleed ports have swapped position and the E4 came with taller pads (which I now also use in the M4).

Get all four pistons sitting flush, align centre of caliper to centre of disc by eye and then everything works nicely for ages.

My E4 were useless.

Also shimano warranty is amazing. Saint all day everyday

What was wrong with the E4’s?
Why did you need the warranty on the saints 😉

They only work for 4-5 rides before they need tweaking. Lack of raw power.

Master cylinder as per. New brakes always for free in a week. No complaints and plenty of power even in the very bottom end brake.

Also shimano warranty is amazing. Saint all day everyday

Well, my brakes have been off to Madison for two weeks and counting now. I had to buy a new set of XTR Race brakes in advance so the bike wouldn’t be laid up while they were contemplating the warranty.

I’m sure they’ll come through in the end, though. I seem to be having a bad time with Shimano recently – XTR brakes binding, XTR trail pedals with collapsed bearings and my MW7 boots with stitching falling apart after 8 months. Not fab :-/

ps. I like Hope brakes too – servicability and long term use is second to none. Just expect to need to service them at regular intervals. Shimano brakes are good, but when they go wrong, you bin them and buy a new set. This offends me, when I’ve had Hope brakes last > 10 years…

Saints are a weird brake, when they work they are t’awesom, when they don’t it’s a pain in the arris – this can be quite frequent. I still have saints, i find that the hoses seem to kill the fluid and/or the hoses are being killed needed constant bleeding.

I’ve had loads of hopes in the past, never really had a set that worked without some fiddling.

jacksprogis – Member
They only work for 4-5 rides before they need tweaking. Lack of raw power.

I have a set of Hope Texh X2s that I bought *checks email* on 4th April 2012. They’ve been on two different bikes (my winter hardtail, and the hardtail that replaced it) over those five years, and still feel the exact same as they did the day I bought them. I’ve never bled them.

Had my E4s for less than a year, but other than beeding them after I shortened the hoses, they’re behaving in exactly the same way

Goldigger – Member

Zees got one major flaw in my opinion.
No tool-free lever distance from the handlebars adjustment.

It is possible to add the adjuster and the free stroke screw.

How did you add the lever adjuster?
Thanks,
Art

I have hope v4s on my DH bike , have had saints. Hope brakes aren’t worth it in my view, not in terms of performance anyhow. They are also a ball ache to set up , cut hoses and so on.

Perhaps warranty and stuff and you know purple…

I have hope v4s on my DH bike , have had saints. Hope brakes aren’t worth it in my view, not in terms of performance anyhow. They are also a ball ache to set up , cut hoses and so on.

In terms of power there’s little in it with comparable types of brake. But in my experience few have the modulation of the Hopes or the incredibly long life – they just work great for years and years. Then they need a service. Then they continue like new. And repeat. Easy to bleed too. Meanwhile you’ve binned numerous Shimano etc brakes…

Sure , but the modulation doesn’t make that much difference, just something you get used too. Plus they are expensive. Great brakes however. Just my opinion 🙂

Sure , but the modulation doesn’t make that much difference, just something you get used too.

I guess that depends on where you ride – once it’s wet here braking grip becomes a difficult to find commodity. And logically a brake with no modulation is impossible to not lock up, so a brake with more modulation must be easier to not lock up.

Yes but you still get used to it. Saints still have modulation

No, I’m saying that if infinite modulation is more controllable than zero modulation, then more modulation must be more controllable than less modulation. I can’t see how it’s possible to refute that logic?

That was a sneaky edit! 😉